Crosby vs McDavid (At Age 22)

[daver]

To put this misguided "Malkin helped Crosby" narrative to bed:

09/10 - Crosby - Better PPG than the season before, Malkin regresses to 13th in scoring

10/11 - at the 39 game mark, Crosby is at 65 points, Malkin has 32 points (good for 36th in the league)

2013 - Crosby laps the field again in PPG, Malkin is not even in the Top 50 in scoring.


So much for that thoery.

 

[Randyne]

When Malkin has underperformed or been injured, it did not affect Crosby's production one bit, in fact it got better.
So unless you have some evidence that Crosby's numbers were not as good when Malkin was out or under performing, you are making a baseless claim.
There is actually a better argument that his numbers would have been better if Malkin wasn't there.

Crosby played 197 games without Malkin and scored 249 Points = 1.26 PPG
And with Malkin 712 GP 924 Points = 1.30 PPG, first half of that at 1.44 PPG when both were at their primes. Malkin somehow stopped produce with him on the second half

 

[daver]

Crosby played 197 games without Malkin and scored 249 Points = 1.26 PPG
And with Malkin 712 GP 924 Points = 1.30 PPG, first half of that at 1.44 PPG when both were at their primes. Malkin somehow stopped produce with him on the second half

This includes 80 games Crosby played as a rookie and not in his prime. There is no difference here. Just what I have been saying all along.

And I just showed a clear pattern of Crosby producing at his best when Malkin is not at his.

 

[Randyne]

This includes 80 games Crosby played as a rookie and not in his prime.

It changes nothing because his rookie season was at 1.26 PPG too

09/10 - Crosby - Better PPG than the season before, Malkin regresses to 13th in scoring
10/11 - at the 39 game mark, Crosby is at 65 points, Malkin has 32 points (good for 36th in the league)

You saw the table. Malkin was his best contributor playing 20 games less with him

 

[daver]

It changes nothing because his rookie season was at 1.26 PPG too

If he was in his prime, his PPG would have been 1.40 to 1.50 not 1.26. It skews the numbers downward as it is not representative of Crosby in his prime like the other numbers are.

 

[daver]

You saw the table. Malkin was his best contributor playing 20 games less with him

The 2nd best player on the Pens by far is Crosby's 2nd best contributor. Colour me shocked.

You are making it sound like Crosby has Malkin to thank for every single point he got with Malkin. What a ridiculous premise.

 

[Randyne]

If he was in his prime, his PPG would have been 1.40 to 1.50 not 1.26. It skews the numbers downward as it is not representative of Crosby in his prime like the other numbers are.

If you call 09-10 season his prime then I have bad news for you. He played 15 games without Malkin on that season and scored 12 Points. It's 0.8 PPG.
But overall it's 1.26 PPG without Malkin as I've said already

 

[daver]

If you call 09-10 season his prime then I have bad news for you. He played 15 games without Malkin on that season and scored 12 Points. It's 0.8 PPG.
But overall it's 1.26 PPG without Malkin as I've said already

You need to remove Crosby's rookie season from your numbers. Then you have the majority of games without Malkin in a clearly lower scoring era so your numbers mean shit.

And I said that he was at his best when Malkin was merely a Top 30 scorer and and a lot more than a measley 15 games. Any comment on that?

And you also have not commented on McDavid's even higher TOI and % point shares with Draisaitl who was 8th in scoring in 16/17 and is 12th this season, much better Art Ross placings than Malkin's when Crosby had his best PPGs.





I wonder if FUTURE GOAT will like this post?

 

[Future GOAT]

You need to remove Crosby's rookie season from your numbers. Then you have the majority of games without Malkin in a clearly lower scoring era so your numbers mean ****.

And I said that he was at his best when Malkin was merely a Top 30 scorer and and a lot more than a measley 15 games. Any comment on that?

And you also have not commented on McDavid's even higher TOI and % point shares with Draisaitl who was 8th in scoring in 16/17 and is 12th this season, much better Art Ross placings than Malkin's when Crosby had his best PPGs.





I wonder if FUTURE GOAT will like this post?

Hard for me to not like any post that you get owned in.

 

[Randyne]

You need to remove Crosby's rookie season from your numbers. Then you have the majority of games without Malkin in a clearly lower scoring era so your numbers mean ****.
And I said that he was at his best when Malkin was merely a Top 30 scorer and and a lot more than a measley 15 games. Any comment on that?
And you also have not commented on McDavid's even higher TOI and % point shares with Draisaitl who was 8th in scoring in 16/17 and is 12th this season, much better Art Ross placings than Malkin's when Crosby had his best PPGs.
I wonder if FUTURE GOAT will like this post?

Malkin Calder; 2ARs; 1 CS; 1Hart; 1TL vs Draisaitl 0;0;0;0;0
They are not comparable at all.
At least I'm using numbers, you are using asterisks.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I think we can ALL agree that Crosby, Malkin, or McDavid are not products of anyone and have shown to have amazing seasons/numbers with hardware to back it, with inferior linemates.......

BUT.....

Having great to elite linemates would help anyone’s play and make anyone’s numbers significantly better regardless of how amazing they are without them. Having Malkin DID help Crosby, but it didn’t define his talent or numbers.

You need to remove Crosby's rookie season from your numbers. Then you have the majority of games without Malkin in a clearly lower scoring era so your numbers mean ****.

And I said that he was at his best when Malkin was merely a Top 30 scorer and and a lot more than a measley 15 games. Any comment on that?

And you also have not commented on McDavid's even higher TOI and % point shares with Draisaitl who was 8th in scoring in 16/17 and is 12th this season, much better Art Ross placings than Malkin's when Crosby had his best PPGs.





I wonder if FUTURE GOAT will like this post?

Why are you continuously trying to compare Malkin and Draisatl?

I mean, come on.....can we be serious please? They don’t even belong in the same sentence together, yet you and a couple of others continue to try to rewrite reality into your own bias form.

Draisatl is a good player, but he isn’t Malkin. In fact no one McDavid has on his team is anywhere close to as good as Malkin, even Kessel and Guenztel are better than a majority of the team...

 

[Nadal On Clay]

I think we can ALL agree that Crosby, Malkin, or McDavid are not products of anyone and have shown to have amazing seasons/numbers with hardware to back it, with inferior linemates.......

BUT.....

Having great to elite linemates would help anyone’s play and make anyone’s numbers significantly better regardless of how amazing they are without them. Having Malkin DID help Crosby, but it didn’t define his talent or numbers.

Why are you continuously trying to compare Malkin and Draisatl?

I mean, come on.....can we be serious please? They don’t even belong in the same sentence together, yet you and a couple of others continue to try to rewrite reality into your own bias form.

Draisatl is a good player, but he isn’t Malkin. In fact no one McDavid has on his team is anywhere close to as good as Malkin, even Kessel and Guenztel are better than a majority of the team...

Well said.

 

[Varan]

I think we can ALL agree that Crosby, Malkin, or McDavid are not products of anyone and have shown to have amazing seasons/numbers with hardware to back it, with inferior linemates.......

BUT.....

Having great to elite linemates would help anyone’s play and make anyone’s numbers significantly better regardless of how amazing they are without them. Having Malkin DID help Crosby, but it didn’t define his talent or numbers.

Why are you continuously trying to compare Malkin and Draisatl?

I mean, come on.....can we be serious please? They don’t even belong in the same sentence together, yet you and a couple of others continue to try to rewrite reality into your own bias form.

Draisatl is a good player, but he isn’t Malkin. In fact no one McDavid has on his team is anywhere close to as good as Malkin, even Kessel and Guenztel are better than a majority of the team...

nice post

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Ho hum, davers points are debunked. Again.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

Williams>McDavid
Draper>McDavid
Kunitz>McDavid

cup role players at best, not star players that carried their team like crosby

mcdavid is tracy mcgrady, wins multiple scoring titles than does squat when the games really count

may as well call him conner mcgrady

 

[GreatGonzo]

cup role players at best, not star players that carried their team like crosby

mcdavid is tracy mcgrady, wins multiple scoring titles than does squat when the games really count

may as well call him conner mcgrady

The poster I was quoting clearly said Cups: that’s all that matters....hence why my post makes actually more sense based on his logic.

Ya....sounds like something a closed minded Crosby lover would say. Your just making yourself look more and more ridiculous with your flawed reasoning. McDavid has had only one opportunity to play for the cup, so we can go ahead and say your whole “doesn’t show up when it counts” argument is nonsense and doesn’t actually exist outside of your little world.

I love how you used the word “carry.” That’s funny....more manipulation of the truth? Sounds like it....when did Crosby ever carry his team? Oh that’s right, it never happened.

Also, you pretend like Crosby ALWAYS showed up when it “counted.” No, definitely didn’t show up for the finals in 09....you know, the biggest series of the year....the one series that counts more than any other time fo the year....how did he do again? Oh that’s right, he got carried by his team....something McDavid doesn’t have the luxury to fall back on.

Run along now, this will get ugly for you I promise.

 

[Varan]

The poster I was quoting clearly said Cups: that’s all that matters....hence why my post makes actually more sense based on his logic.

Ya....sounds like something a closed minded Crosby lover would say. Your just making yourself look more and more ridiculous with your flawed reasoning. McDavid has had only one opportunity to play for the cup, so we can go ahead and say your whole “doesn’t show up when it counts” argument is nonsense and doesn’t actually exist outside of your little world.

I love how you used the word “carry.” That’s funny....more manipulation of the truth? Sounds like it....when did Crosby ever carry his team? Oh that’s right, it never happened.

Also, you pretend like Crosby ALWAYS showed up when it “counted.” No, definitely didn’t show up for the finals in 09....you know, the biggest series of the year....the one series that counts more than any other time fo the year....how did he do again? Oh that’s right, he got carried by his team....something McDavid doesn’t have the luxury to fall back on.

Run along now, this will get ugly for you I promise.

and in 2016!

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

The poster I was quoting clearly said Cups: that’s all that matters....hence why my post makes actually more sense based on his logic.

Ya....sounds like something a closed minded Crosby lover would say. Your just making yourself look more and more ridiculous with your flawed reasoning. McDavid has had only one opportunity to play for the cup, so we can go ahead and say your whole “doesn’t show up when it counts” argument is nonsense and doesn’t actually exist outside of your little world.

I love how you used the word “carry.” That’s funny....more manipulation of the truth? Sounds like it....when did Crosby ever carry his team? Oh that’s right, it never happened.

Also, you pretend like Crosby ALWAYS showed up when it “counted.” No, definitely didn’t show up for the finals in 09....you know, the biggest series of the year....the one series that counts more than any other time fo the year....how did he do again? Oh that’s right, he got carried by his team....something McDavid doesn’t have the luxury to fall back on.

Run along now, this will get ugly for you I promise.

when two players have been considered the best in the league, cups matter when comparing the two

this all sounds like something a close mind crosby hater would say

mcdavid has only 1 opportunity to play for the cup? gee whose fault is that, couldn't possibly be his could it? nope it's just everybody elses fault...

if you have to go back 10 years to the friggin finals of all places to support your argument when he was "shut down" by lidstrom and zetterberg, you have no argument only an agenda against crosby

i run from no man, bring it on

 

[GreatGonzo]

when two players have been considered the best in the league, cups matter when comparing the two

this all sounds like something a close mind crosby hater would say

mcdavid has only 1 opportunity to play for the cup? gee whose fault is that, couldn't possibly be his could it? nope it's just everybody elses fault...

if you have to go back 10 years to the friggin finals of all places to support your argument when he was "shut down" by lidstrom and zetterberg, you have no argument only an agenda against crosby

i run from no man, bring it on

Cups matter to you because you ignore all context and continue on this agenda that says that Crosby “carried” his team or that Crosby is “better” because he had a better team assembled around him in order to make a run for the cup. All things you choose to ignore because it hurts your ego.

I’m not the one spitting out false claims while putting my own spin on reality am I......you have no right calling anyone close minded, your just threatened by McDavid and the fact that Crosby is no longer the king of the mountain. Get over it.

Well I don’t though because that year falls under the time frame we are arguing. It also completely debunks your idea that he “carried” anyone or that he shows up when it REALLY matters. Crosby got shut down, exactly, and he was basically a non factor a majority of those finals. His play made no impact on the outcome. You can’t talk like any or every 2nd line center would take advantage of the mismatch, this is Malkin we are talking about....remember? The Smythe winner?

So it’s Mcdavids fault his team didn’t make the post season, yet Crosby “carried” his team to glory? Your clearly just delusional to the point where you don’t know where reality ends and begins. Put Crosby in those Oilers teams and they still don’t make the playoffs or win the cup, so what’s your argument? One man can only do so much, the fact that Crosby didn’t lead any of the Pens cup winning teams in production and can fall flat in the finals and STILL win shows how solid of a team he has had. Crosby has always had Malkin who has been a generational playoff performer, add guys like Kessel who out produced the great Sidney Crosby in 2016.....ya really makes a lot of sense.

Once again, your just angry because McDavid is the new talent on the block and making his mark early. You cling on to playoffs and ignore everything else because that makes you feel better. Maybe don’t be so sensitive and take it for what it is.

 

[GreatGonzo]

and in 2016!

No no remember? that’s when Crosby magically learned how to play elite “two way” hockey and shut down the entire sharks team.

He didn’t score a single goal and was under a PPG, but they won so all is forgiven and Crosby gets a new entitlement: defensive specialist.

 

[GreatGonzo]

@GordieHowsUrBreath

McDavid
2 Art Ross
2 Lindsays
1 Ross
3x First Team AS

Crosby
1 Art Ross
1 Lindsay
1 Hart
1x First Team AS

“Crosby won the cup though! Hes clearly better!

-How did he do in the finals?

“Doesn’t matter! He was shut down!! Not his fault!

-Who won the Smythe?

“CROSBY CARRIED HIS TEAM TO THE CUP! MALKIN GOT LUCKY BECAUSE CROSBY GOT SHUT DOWN.”

-McDavids teams are trash compared to Crosby’s early on.

“That’s McDavids fault! He can’t get a team to the post season by himself! That’s why Crosby is better!”

-McDavid has more individual hardware on a much weaker team with lesser talent around him.

“UHHH DID YOU FORGET ABOUT DRAISATL?! That guy is totally legit! Your just a hater!”

 

[Varan]

No no remember? that’s when Crosby magically learned how to play elite “two way” hockey and shut down the entire sharks team.

He didn’t score a single goal and was under a PPG, but they won so all is forgiven and Crosby gets a new entitlement: defensive specialist.

lmao that was the same season he remembered how to be a leader as well

crosby fans don’t care about goal production rememberrrrr

 

[GreatGonzo]

lmao that was the same season he remembered how to be a leader as well

crosby fans don’t care about goal production rememberrrrr

That’s true Crosby doesn’t have to score. His leadership presence alone gives his whole team super skills at the right time all the time. That bum Malkin is merely along for the ride, Crosby never needed his help. Or Kessels.

 

[Varan]

That’s true Crosby doesn’t have to score. His leadership presence alone gives his whole team super skills at the right time all the time. That bum Malkin is merely along for the ride, Crosby never needed his help. Or Kessels.

i never knew malkin or kessel were even on the team. that’s how great crosby is, overshadows everyone else.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

Cups matter to you because you ignore all context and continue on this agenda that says that Crosby “carried” his team or that Crosby is “better” because he had a better team assembled around him in order to make a run for the cup. All things you choose to ignore because it hurts your ego.

I’m not the one spitting out false claims while putting my own spin on reality am I......you have no right calling anyone close minded, your just threatened by McDavid and the fact that Crosby is no longer the king of the mountain. Get over it.

Well I don’t though because that year falls under the time frame we are arguing. It also completely debunks your idea that he “carried” anyone or that he shows up when it REALLY matters. Crosby got shut down, exactly, and he was basically a non factor a majority of those finals. His play made no impact on the outcome. You can’t talk like any or every 2nd line center would take advantage of the mismatch, this is Malkin we are talking about....remember? The Smythe winner?

So it’s Mcdavids fault his team didn’t make the post season, yet Crosby “carried” his team to glory? Your clearly just delusional to the point where you don’t know where reality ends and begins. Put Crosby in those Oilers teams and they still don’t make the playoffs or win the cup, so what’s your argument? One man can only do so much, the fact that Crosby didn’t lead any of the Pens cup winning teams in production and can fall flat in the finals and STILL win shows how solid of a team he has had. Crosby has always had Malkin who has been a generational playoff performer, add guys like Kessel who out produced the great Sidney Crosby in 2016.....ya really makes a lot of sense.

Once again, your just angry because McDavid is the new talent on the block and making his mark early. You cling on to playoffs and ignore everything else because that makes you feel better. Maybe don’t be so sensitive and take it for what it is.

the only one angry here is you

crosby's play had no impact in 09 finals? LOL ok...

i just wonder when the excuses for conner mcgrady will die off, how many non playoff years will it take?

will he make another big push for the art ross like last year when he realized he didn't have to save anything for the playoffs?