Crosby has 4 goals in his last 27 games. Is he still hurt?

[Rhiessan71]

Who do you think is the best player in the world if not Crosby?

And there lies the issue that some have with the Sid hype.

Is he still the best player in the world...prolly have to say yes.
But doesn't he hold that title more by default?
When other players like Gretzky or Lemieux or Jagr or Orr or Howe held that title, they did so with authority.
There was not going to be a Sedin or any top-10 player having a career year knocking them off the Art Ross like has been the case with Sid.

Don't get me wrong, Sid has been the most consistent superstar of the bunch but aside from a little teasing over a couple of partial seasons, he has never made that leap to be head and shoulders above everyone else.

Sorry, just too many blips on his resume.
Bad to downright terrible PO finishes since '09.
Losing an Art Ross to Sedin.
OV being the more dominant player for a few years during his reign.
Malkin, his teammate, in Sid's absence, putting up years just as good, if not better than most of Sid's.

And after all this, people insist on using words like "top-10 all-time" or even "top-5 all-time"...sorry, it's simply not there.
At least not yet.

 

[Bending and Tending]

Don't get me wrong, Sid has been the most consistent superstar of the bunch but aside from a little teasing over a couple of partial seasons, he has never made that leap to be head and shoulders above everyone else.

With every player eating and exercising with the knowledge available today, it's going to be difficult for anyone to be head and shoulders above the rest.

 

[Son Goku]

There's a lot of mocking of that stat, but there might actually be something to it.

Would you rather have a guy who scores 9 points in two games and gets shut out for aother 3 games or a guy who scores 2 points in 4 games plus another point in aother game? After all, those 9 points only contributed to 2 wins, whereas spreading out the points more evenly would more likely contribute to more wins.

But crosby is easily the most consistent point producer in the league. It's what makes him great so I don't see your point???

 

[daver]

i don't think there is one. i think this subjective, mythological title changes on a weekly if not daily basis. there are simply too many players who are so close to each other talent wise to be able to say this. there hasn't been one player head and shoulders above the rest, IMO, for an extended length of time since Jagr. also, in today's NHL, what does "the best" mean? best goal scorer? points? assists? defensive play?

So what put Jagr in that position?

 

[daver]

And there lies the issue that some have with the Sid hype.

Is he still the best player in the world...prolly have to say yes.
But doesn't he hold that title more by default?
When other players like Gretzky or Lemieux or Jagr or Orr or Howe held that title, they did so with authority.
There was not going to be a Sedin or any top-10 player having a career year knocking them off the Art Ross like has been the case with Sid.

Don't get me wrong, Sid has been the most consistent superstar of the bunch but aside from a little teasing over a couple of partial seasons, he has never made that leap to be head and shoulders above everyone else.

Sorry, just too many blips on his resume.
Bad to downright terrible PO finishes since '09.
Losing an Art Ross to Sedin.
OV being the more dominant player for a few years during his reign.
Malkin, his teammate, in Sid's absence, putting up years just as good, if not better than most of Sid's.

And after all this, people insist on using words like "top-10 all-time" or even "top-5 all-time"...sorry, it's simply not there.
At least not yet.

This supposedly earth shattering narrative needs to be put to bed.

Sedin's 2010 season likely knocks Jagr off in 3 of his 5 Art Ross seasons.

 

[daver]

There's a lot of mocking of that stat, but there might actually be something to it.

Would you rather have a guy who scores 9 points in two games and gets shut out for aother 3 games or a guy who scores 2 points in 4 games plus another point in aother game? After all, those 9 points only contributed to 2 wins, whereas spreading out the points more evenly would more likely contribute to more wins.

As with every other effort to discredit Crosby i.e. secondary Sid, can only score in the East. conference, I predict someone will come up with stats that shows Crosby for career blows everyone else away in way in terms of consistency.

Will you retract this post when that's done?

 

[NYRangerFan*]

Crosby is the best center in the NHL. Almost any team would take him over their current top center

 

[Bending and Tending]

So what put Jagr in that position?

Art Ross 4 years in a row? Lemieux was only present for the last one.

 

[Regal]

And there lies the issue that some have with the Sid hype.

Is he still the best player in the world...prolly have to say yes.
But doesn't he hold that title more by default?
When other players like Gretzky or Lemieux or Jagr or Orr or Howe held that title, they did so with authority.
There was not going to be a Sedin or any top-10 player having a career year knocking them off the Art Ross like has been the case with Sid.

Don't get me wrong, Sid has been the most consistent superstar of the bunch but aside from a little teasing over a couple of partial seasons, he has never made that leap to be head and shoulders above everyone else.

Sorry, just too many blips on his resume.
Bad to downright terrible PO finishes since '09.
Losing an Art Ross to Sedin.
OV being the more dominant player for a few years during his reign.
Malkin, his teammate, in Sid's absence, putting up years just as good, if not better than most of Sid's.

And after all this, people insist on using words like "top-10 all-time" or even "top-5 all-time"...sorry, it's simply not there.
At least not yet.

You really need to stop using the fact he lost an Art Ross to Henrik Sedin as some kind of huge flaw. He scored 112 points in a relatively low scoring era. He had more points, better PPG and more adjusted points than Jagr did in his '98 season. Adjusted, he was only two points off Jagr's pace for the '95 season, and who knows what would have happened in a shortened year. And I think it says as much about Crosby as being beaten by Bronco Horvath says about Howe. Say what you will about Sedin in a historical context, but for that one season he scored at a very impressive level. Yes, he wouldn't have been a threat against Gretzky or Lemieux, but he absolutely could have beaten out Jagr and Howe in a couple of their prime years. To keep bringing it up is a terrible argument, and frankly shows an obvious bias against both players.

 

[daver]

Art Ross 4 years in a row? Lemieux was only present for the last one.

Crosby probably has 2 or 3 more under his belt if not for injuries and has set himself clearly apart from the pack the past two seasons. It is at least debatable he is the best player. If not, then there have only been a handful of best players in NHL history.

 

[tom_servo]

I'm pleased to say that Malkin has been the Pens' best and most consistent player this season. This is perhaps the first season I can say that with Sid in the lineup ('09 is a possibility).

 

[mrv52]

This supposedly earth shattering narrative needs to be put to bed.

Sedin's 2010 season likely knocks Jagr off in 3 of his 5 Art Ross seasons.

I think this proves Rhiessan71's point that other players are closer to Crosby's level than what some want to believe.

 

[jack mullet]

You don't measure people just by how many goals they score.

agreed, so what else does crosby excel at better than anyone else? he is a good skater, but the best? he is a good passer with good vision, but the best? he isn't very good defensively, he isn't the best at faceoffs, he cant go out and shut down the other teams best player, he isn't the best leader or other intangibles. he is a good hockey player. a good player who under the right circumstances could challenge for a scoring title, along with probably 7-8 other guys.

 

[jack mullet]

So what put Jagr in that position?

5 scoring titles in 7 years, would have been 7 in 7 if not for this Lemieux guy...

 

[jack mullet]

Crosby probably has 2 or 3 more under his belt if not for injuries and has set himself clearly apart from the pack the past two seasons. It is at least debatable he is the best player. If not, then there have only been a handful of best players in NHL history.

as we have seen this year, Sid can go on cold streaks as well. there was no promise he would have won scoring titles if not for injuries in any of his seasons.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

agreed, so what else does crosby excel at better than anyone else? he is a good skater, but the best? he is a good passer with good vision, but the best? he isn't very good defensively, he isn't the best at faceoffs, he cant go out and shut down the other teams best player, he isn't the best leader or other intangibles. he is a good hockey player. a good player who under the right circumstances could challenge for a scoring title, along with probably 7-8 other guys.

Vladimir Sbotka is the best player in the league?

Jack of all trades, master of none, yo.

 

[mrv52]

Vladimir Sbotka is the best player in the league?

Jack of all trades, master of none, yo.

couple more posts like this and this thread closes!

 

[HOLDITHERE*]

With every player eating and exercising with the knowledge available today, it's going to be difficult for anyone to be head and shoulders above the rest.

Then why is everyone still acting as if he is?

 

[mrv52]

Then why is everyone still acting as if he is?

You sir may have created the next Crosby thread title to bless these boards. At least the thread title wont need to be changed weekly like the last two, this one, and the running away with art ross anytime thread!

 

[El Nino 22]

If we are just talking offense you have a point that it's debatable.

Its really not even debatable who the more dominant players was in their prime. It was Jagr.

 

[shizno*]

Its really not even debatable who the more dominant players was in their prime. It was Jagr.

And yet we are always debating it. 2weird4me

 

[Midnight Judges]

But crosby is easily the most consistent point producer in the league.

Well, first of all, no, Crosby is absolutely not the most consistent point producer in the league. Plenty of guys are outscoring him this year, and Alexander Ovechkin has outscored him over the course of the last 10 years.

 

[livewell68]

This supposedly earth shattering narrative needs to be put to bed.

Sedin's 2010 season likely knocks Jagr off in 3 of his 5 Art Ross seasons.

Based on what? Adjusted points that will always benefit the more recent hockey players?

Jagr had Art Ross trophies in which he exceeded the 1.50 PPG, Sedin's best season was at 112 Pts.

Are going to tell me then Lemieux's 1996-97 Art Ross win is less impressive than Sedin's because of adjusted points?

Let Crosby score 121, 123, 127 or 149 Pts in a season before we start with this.

Sedin would have never ever knocked Jagr off for an Art Ross unless you are arguing the Jagr that played in Washington.

A 34 year old, heavier and slower Jagr outscored Sedin and Crosby in their best seasons. Get out of here with these silly comments.

 

[livewell68]

Crosby probably has 2 or 3 more under his belt if not for injuries and has set himself clearly apart from the pack the past two seasons. It is at least debatable he is the best player. If not, then there have only been a handful of best players in NHL history.

Could have, would have, should have.

There are those that were on pace and would have done it and then there are those that did it.

Lindros could have been all time great, Kariya could have too.

Injuries are a part of hockey. Jagr could have won an Art Ross too in 1996-97 if not for missing 19 games.

You don't get credit for things you didn't accomplish.

There are those who will remembered for being the best in the game; Morenz, Howe, Beliveau, Hull, Esposito, Orr, Lafleur, Gretzky, Lemieux, Jagr, Ovechkin.

Crosby is more in the tier of players like Forsberg, Lindros, Sakic, Yzerman, Clarke, Richard, Bossy, Mikita.