Confirmed with Link: Coyotes trade Strome and Perlini for Nick Schmaltz

[Jakey53]

I've suggested before that weather is really not that high on the list of importance for many players and was kind of ridiculed. It's just possible some players value having a competitive team with a large fan base more than shorts in the winter??

I don't think weather even enters the picture. It's $$$$$$$. If the $ is equal, then it's the teams and organization. My opinion anyways.

 

[Jamieh]

I don't think weather even enters the picture. It's $$$$$$$. If the $ is equal, then it's the teams and organization. My opinion anyways.

I think money, team, opportunity, and then whatever else individually important.

 

[Heldig]

I've suggested before that weather is really not that high on the list of importance for many players and was kind of ridiculed. It's just possible some players value having a competitive team with a large fan base more than shorts in the winter??

Winning trumps everything. And the chronic uncertainty around the franchise cant help.

 

[Jamieh]

Winning trumps everything. And the chronic uncertainty around the franchise cant help.

No way winning trumps money.

 

[johnchayka89]

Strome has 1 assist as a Hawk.
Hey, I’m a stats guy...

 

[Jakey53]

I think money, team, opportunity, and then whatever else individually important.

I could agree with that.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Come on now, RT didn't like Strome from day one, and you knew this when listening to his pressers. I and many others said Strome would be traded sooner than later, and guess what happened.He did like Perlini, and that is why he was not held accountable. I thought that Perlini's play deserved a scratch or two. RT has his fav's. Let's forget about the trade for a second, my question would be why did Domi want out? Why Strome? We can't keep on trading players just because they want out.

So, if a coach gave players the means of what to improve and how to improve, but when we get to games, the player doesn't show that, why does that become the fault of the coach?

It is very possible that the coach and some players didn't get along. That is also on player and coach to hash through that. Strome could have been sat every game of the year this year, but we tried to figure out ways to appease player as well. We could have sent Strome down to the A again, like last year, but we didn't.

We have clearly talked about needing a C, which was what necessitated the trade for Galchenyuk. Domi was the player that needed to be given up, and it is possible that his wanting out had nothing to do with coaching. It could have had everything to do with coaching.

Strome was the guy who we thought would be a #1 C for us. If that expectation still existed, why would we suddenly be trading for a C and drafting Hayton? I think that Tocchet's feelings for Strome were not due to just Tocchet thinking his own poor thoughts of Strome, but Strome had his own actions that made Tocchet think that way as well. He may have come into camp not at peak physical condition. He may not have "turned the corner" at a fast enough pace for where we felt we were at, especially since it has been 3 years since he was drafted and just about every other player drafted in that range had experienced time in the NHL and built off of that.

That's why it is interesting to see and hear the words about Strome doing things in Chicago that we didn't see here. If he was holding back on the coaches, team, and himself, then good riddance. If he did everything he could to be in the good graces of the staff and still couldn't get somewhere, then we point at the coaches and staff. I think the truth lies in between there, but everyone wants to point the finger in one direction and only one direction.

I agree that we can't simply trade players who want out, but if the player is doing something that indicates that he is not giving his all, like it appears that the Strome situation is, as it parallels with Turris, then there aren't many great options. With Domi, it was something other than his overall effort, and I doubt it had anything to do with a coaching vs player view. I think that he was frustrated with losing and an expectation that the audience and crowd would grow more in AZ in his time here. As the losing piled up, it waned on Domi, and b/c we needed to trade skill for skill to get Galchenyuk, it played out that way. Since there were also comments about Domi being a bit of a prick, maybe the idea was that it made the locker room a more enjoyable atmosphere to be around as well.

Go back to Chayka's comments on the Domi trade and those on the Strome trade. One sounds very evident that it was about the player not fitting due to the player not living to expectations. The other was about the player being a solid player, but something that we felt was better to improve us down the middle for the future. Strome is the former and Domi is the latter.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I see this a little differently. Sure, I think Dylan blamed his underperformance on the Coyotes. But he cannot do that anymore.
Of course he feels the sense of urgency now and knows he has to bring an edge or else...

I think Chicago is doing a great job building his confidence. It great when you the luxury of having Stanley cup pedigree on the roster.
But the reality is there will eventually be high expectations for Dylan. That changes things quite a bit. Right now the Hawks are obviously embracing a “tank season”. So it’s a non issue right now.

I don’t see the “Strome didn’t want to play here”. I just see a new spark in him. Will it last? That depends on the kind of core person he is. True colors will eventually bleed through.

A new spark can be interpreted that he was frustrated here and didnt want to be here. Why was that spark for trying to play his way into more minutes not showing here? I think that it was clear that he had expectations of receiving top minutes and when that didnt happen, he just went through the motions, which is basically saying, "I will play, but I am not happy here."

 

[johnchayka89]

A new spark can be interpreted that he was frustrated here and didnt want to be here. Why was that spark for trying to play his way into more minutes not showing here? I think that it was clear that he had expectations of receiving top minutes and when that didnt happen, he just went through the motions, which is basically saying, "I will play, but I am not happy here."

Its more of a spark of “confidence”with Dylan. Something he was tremendously lacking here.

If he thought he deserved anything here, he is out of his mind. He looked like Big Bird on ice skates.

 

[Jakey53]

So, if a coach gave players the means of what to improve and how to improve, but when we get to games, the player doesn't show that, why does that become the fault of the coach?

It is very possible that the coach and some players didn't get along. That is also on player and coach to hash through that. Strome could have been sat every game of the year this year, but we tried to figure out ways to appease player as well. We could have sent Strome down to the A again, like last year, but we didn't.

We have clearly talked about needing a C, which was what necessitated the trade for Galchenyuk. Domi was the player that needed to be given up, and it is possible that his wanting out had nothing to do with coaching. It could have had everything to do with coaching.

Strome was the guy who we thought would be a #1 C for us. If that expectation still existed, why would we suddenly be trading for a C and drafting Hayton? I think that Tocchet's feelings for Strome were not due to just Tocchet thinking his own poor thoughts of Strome, but Strome had his own actions that made Tocchet think that way as well. He may have come into camp not at peak physical condition. He may not have "turned the corner" at a fast enough pace for where we felt we were at, especially since it has been 3 years since he was drafted and just about every other player drafted in that range had experienced time in the NHL and built off of that.

That's why it is interesting to see and hear the words about Strome doing things in Chicago that we didn't see here. If he was holding back on the coaches, team, and himself, then good riddance. If he did everything he could to be in the good graces of the staff and still couldn't get somewhere, then we point at the coaches and staff. I think the truth lies in between there, but everyone wants to point the finger in one direction and only one direction.

I agree that we can't simply trade players who want out, but if the player is doing something that indicates that he is not giving his all, like it appears that the Strome situation is, as it parallels with Turris, then there aren't many great options. With Domi, it was something other than his overall effort, and I doubt it had anything to do with a coaching vs player view. I think that he was frustrated with losing and an expectation that the audience and crowd would grow more in AZ in his time here. As the losing piled up, it waned on Domi, and b/c we needed to trade skill for skill to get Galchenyuk, it played out that way. Since there were also comments about Domi being a bit of a prick, maybe the idea was that it made the locker room a more enjoyable atmosphere to be around as well.

Go back to Chayka's comments on the Domi trade and those on the Strome trade. One sounds very evident that it was about the player not fitting due to the player not living to expectations. The other was about the player being a solid player, but something that we felt was better to improve us down the middle for the future. Strome is the former and Domi is the latter.

Tried to figure it out. It is what it is. With new ownership Chayka and RT will be gone anyways, or at the very least have a good experienced hockey mind reeling in Chayka and his trade a month plan.

 

[Jagged Ice]

^^ Jakey What new ownership?

 

[Bonsai Tree]

In Chicago Strome doesn’t have the pressure to play up to that 3rd selection level. Here, he was a disappointment. In Chicago, he’s just a player on the team. Read those Strome articles with the understanding the Strome’s being measured and held to a much lower standard in Chicago.

 

[Murf]

No way winning trumps money.

It’s not an either/or. Winning = Money.

If the Coyotes has won the Stanley Cup, Shane Doan would be doing commercials for State Farm instead of Chas Roberts.

That’s why Matthews could end up a billionaire. He is part of the best team Toronto has seen in forever, in the richest NHL market. If they can make some noise, win a cup, he is set for life. His sponsorship checks will last forever, and far outweigh his salary.

 

[Heldig]

No way winning trumps money.

Yes and no. In many ways winning = money. Playing on a perennial loser in a poor market means worse stats which means lower contracts...

 

[Jamieh]

It’s not an either/or. Winning = Money.

If the Coyotes has won the Stanley Cup, Shane Doan would be doing commercials for State Farm instead of Chas Roberts.

That’s why Matthews could end up a billionaire. He is part of the best team Toronto has seen in forever, in the richest NHL market. If they can make some noise, win a cup, he is set for life. His sponsorship checks will last forever, and far outweigh his salary.

You don't know that stuff when you sign and there are very few Matthew's and Doans. Players first priority in general when signing contracts is money. And Matthews won't be anywhere near billion.

 

[Jamieh]

Yes and no. In many ways winning = money. Playing on a perennial loser in a poor market means worse stats which means lower contracts...

And playing on a good team knocks most down the lineup which means less time and generally less stats. How do you think Kadri will get a bigger contract next time now playing 3rd line minutes?? He sure would have preferred to sign after last season as number 2 center.

 

[Jakey53]

^^ Jakey What new ownership?

I said three years ago it's as done deal. It's getting close.

 

[Jakey53]

In Chicago Strome doesn’t have the pressure to play up to that 3rd selection level. Here, he was a disappointment. In Chicago, he’s just a player on the team. Read those Strome articles with the understanding the Strome’s being measured and held to a much lower standard in Chicago.

Strome and every other player are under a microscope in Chicago. There is more pressure there than there ever will be here. They are expected to win. We as fans have set the bar so low we get excited when our team is fast and flashy and near .500. Strome will get torched if his play falls off, just like Schmaltz.

 

[Jakey53]

It’s not an either/or. Winning = Money.

If the Coyotes has won the Stanley Cup, Shane Doan would be doing commercials for State Farm instead of Chas Roberts.

That’s why Matthews could end up a billionaire. He is part of the best team Toronto has seen in forever, in the richest NHL market. If they can make some noise, win a cup, he is set for life. His sponsorship checks will last forever, and far outweigh his salary.

A billionare? Get real, it's hockey not basketball or baseball. I guess if you wait another thirty years there could be one, but it won't be AM.

 

[hbk]

I'm really enjoying Schmaltz. He's been very good. Has areas to improve but he's been better than I expected offensively.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Its more of a spark of “confidence”with Dylan. Something he was tremendously lacking here.

If he thought he deserved anything here, he is out of his mind. He looked like Big Bird on ice skates.

It had been mentioned (I don't think that this was a passing thought by a comment in these forums, but rather, came out in an article) that there was an idea of entitlement. Now, I don't know if that is specifically referring to only Strome. It may have been Perlini. It may have been both of them.

But when you start to put two and two together, now it makes complete sense where this was going. The player was probably upset that he was in the AHL last year, and then he made some additional plays at the end of last year, when we had nothing to play for except pride. He may also have been playing for pride in the sense that he felt he should have been in the NHL all year long. His exit interview was probably something along the lines of, "We like where you finished the year off and we want to see that carry over into next year." He probably did take some of that to heart, but remember, our entire team was bad last year. All of the other veterans and young players alike had to let last season burn in their minds, so he may have come in having made some improvements, but 15 other players made larger and better improvements.

So, I can understand where the idea that this is a "confidence" vote in him to recognize that he made improvements. Last year, he was sent to the A. If we were really cruel, we would have sent him to the A again, but we knew that there was still talent in him and we wanted to see him play on the 3rd or 4th line to make sure he was staying within the proper boundaries, and wouldn't turn into a liability when we played him in the 2nd or 1st line. That is showing confidence in him, b/c last year, the staff decided he wasn't even deserving of staying in the NHL. Strome probably still perceived this as a slight, and as people mentioned - we had a bad taste in our mouth last year and made it clear that we wanted to push for the postseason. Chicago isn't necessarily in that point, so they could be a little more liberal in that regard, even though they have still used him in a similar light. He is still playing about the same number of shifts per game as what he got here, but it is with a talent like Kane, who would be double-shifted regardless of who the Blackhawks sent out as the 3rd/4th line C. I am looking at Kane's game log for the year, and he is basically getting a similar level of time before Strome was there and after Strome was acquired. Strome does have some better linemates than what he was with here, but he needs to take advantage of his 3rd/4th line opportunities before he can earn those top line minutes, or even have Keller double-shift with him.

 

[BUX7PHX]

What goes unsaid is that Strome has 4 G and 1 A in 10 games with Chicago. Schmaltz has 4 G and 5 A in 9 games with the Yotes. I don't expect Schmaltz to necessarily be a PPG player, but he is still able to improve in the same sense that people expect Strome to improve. Strome may have a higher ceiling, yes. But we didn't get little in the return either.

The tangible benefits to a deal are points, production, wins/losses, etc.

The intangible benefits are things like how does our coaching staff continue to get something out of a player that has lost some interest or confidence? What if Strome had disappointment in his face every time he walked into the locker room? How do you make someone feel better? Just give him 20 minutes and hope that he finally performs, even though he hasn't shown the penchant in previous games and practices to want to perform? That is how coaches lose a locker room - by acquiescing to every single player. If Lyubushkin came to Tocchet and stated how much success he had in the KHL, does that mean he deserves top line minutes? Again, coaches and management have to deal with several different personalities and be able to maintain the same message while still being fair to all. If everyone is receptive to the message, but one personality is the issue, then maybe the personality is the issue and not the message.

We kept saying how we want a coach who holds players accountable (as if the previous coach didn't do that). Then he does exactly that, and a trade comes up and people complain about it. No coach can win here in that context, b/c someone will always find something wrong with how that coach does something. We ridded ourselves of a player that we weren't clear on and weren't sure that he would ever put his best foot forward for us and replaced him with a player that we are more confident with in that regard. Be happy about that.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Strome and every other player are under a microscope in Chicago. There is more pressure there than there ever will be here. They are expected to win. We as fans have set the bar so low we get excited when our team is fast and flashy and near .500. Strome will get torched if his play falls off, just like Schmaltz.

You sell Hawks fans short. The expectations for Strome are a lot less than they were here. Hawks fans note that it took Perlini to add to Strome to make the trade equal.

 

[azcanuck]

Schmaltz already looks like a better player then Strome. He's only 22. He's got speed and a very nice curl and drag wrist shot. He can dangle too. Not that physical but has good speed unlike Strome.
It all depends on what Perlini does. I always thought he'd be a player in this league but maybe not.

 

[Murf]

A billionare? Get real, it's hockey not basketball or baseball. I guess if you wait another thirty years there could be one, but it won't be AM.

So literal, sheesh... Sorry that the hyperbole was not obvious enough for you two.