Confirmed with Link: Coyotes trade Strome and Perlini for Nick Schmaltz

[Coyotedroppings]

Somebody came in a with a "Face-offs are the single most important factor..." whatever quote. Of course we're going to discuss the merits of that position. It's a discussion board. It's not a state obvious cliches like "every little bit helps" and just nod in agreement board. Discourse > Bumper Stickers.

While that original statement is over the top, it doesn't necessitate the response that face off don't matter imo. A home builder can have the most get after it hammer driving framers, that are consistently on plumb and finishers that have the skill of DaVinci, but if the foundation is a scattered to hell Picaso, the home ain't worth shit.

Discourse is fine, as are bumper stickers - IF one has the intellect to discern the meaning.

 

[rt]

While that original statement is over the top, it doesn't necessitate the response that face off don't matter imo. A home builder can have the most get after it hammer driving framers, that are consistently on plumb and finishers that have the skill of DaVinci, but if the foundation is a scattered to hell Picaso, the home ain't worth ****.

Discourse is fine, as are bumper stickers - IF one has the intellect to discern the meaning.

The foundation is laid once and remains. Face-offs and subsequent possession are fluid. I don’t get the foundation analogy. You tend to get the puck back. There’s an impermanence to possession that flies in the face of the concrete metaphor.

 

[SniperHF]

More evidence the Coyotes suffer from either a skill deficit or coaching ineptness; our 5on5 scoring sucks. RT thinks our 5on5 play is OK

Oh did you have to remind me of that quote

 

[Canis Latrans]

I'd break down face-off importance into it being important only if it's occurring in the offensive/defensive zones and the win is clean enough for the offense to immediately have clean possession (e.g. a player has the puck and some one isn't immediately bearing down upon him so he can skate with it or establish space and pass the puck around). Beyond that, winning somewhere in the neutral zone requires the followup of transitioning into the offensive zone which then requires the followup of either establishing control in the offensive zone or continuing the transition straight to the net for a scoring chance. It's just really messy data to work with that you can't just pull out of stats tables. It requires more nuance.

An easier analysis might be done in terms of value of defensively winning a face-off since that can more easily lead to clearing the zone and forcing the opposing team to go back to square one regarding getting the puck, transitioning into the offensive zone, establishing possession/getting a shot on goal.

The Coyotes might value face-off wins in the offensive zone more than other teams because the offense is generally inept and struggles to ever set up in the offensive zone, although to be fair, this year is much better than in years past at that.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

The foundation is laid once and remains. Face-offs and subsequent possession are fluid. I don’t get the foundation analogy. You tend to get the puck back. There’s an impermanence to possession that flies in the face of the concrete metaphor.

Within every face off lies a new foundation

How's that for a bumper sticker

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Come on Boys, attempting to pigeon hole this face off discussion into stats is absurd!

I'm not looking to play the my experience trumps yours, or the you have to have played the game card here, but I can tell you the following:

I played this game up though the CHL, which merged with the ECHL and as a center I felt I was letting my team mates down with EVERY SINGLE draw I lost. It's an extremely important part of the job, that you take pride in. Having also played wing, I can assure you that having a center consistently lose draws is demoralizing. Having to bust your ass to make up for a lost draw, getting open for a pass that is not made, back checking only to have a mate give up on the same play etc. are all things that will happen, but when they keep happening animosity sets in, division starts and unity suffers.

I tried to subtly state this earlier with my struck by lightning analogy, but it didn't seem to resonate with some. There is a place for stats and to be frank some of you boys amaze me with your diligence, knowledge and application of them, but I really don't think this is an applicable circumstance.

 

[RemoAZ]

We need more talent. Winning face offs is a good thing to focus on when you are trying to make your good team a contender. We need to get enough talent to just be good before we can prioritize anything meaning we aren't good enough to move Schmaltz to wing because he can't win face offs. Of course we had a guy with offensive talent that was winning a lot of face offs, who this thread was originally about but our coach couldn't be bothered to try him up in the lineup to take advantage of it while trying to develop him.

 

[Plub]

The guy we had that won faceoffs was not as good as the guy we got. I don't think there is any debate left on that. Just watch Schmaltz play, he creates so much on his own, where as Strome is very dependent on who he plays with. I take Schmaltz over Strome any day. This is the Domi situation where we all knew we were losing a good one.

 

[RemoAZ]

You should read the Chicago board. They think the exact opposite.

 

[hbk]

I honestly don’t know how someone could not be impressed with the skating and vision that Schmaltz has displayed during his short time in AZ. He’s been everything we wanted and more IMO.

I’m not discounting Strome or his lack of opportunity here. I just don’t feel the need to continue to dwell on it at this point.

 

[Kevin Musto]

You should read the Chicago board. They think the exact opposite.

Dylan Strome Appreciation Thread

 

[Toews2Bickell]

I honestly don’t know how someone could not be impressed with the skating and vision that Schmaltz has displayed during his short time in AZ. He’s been everything we wanted and more IMO.

I’m not discounting Strome or his lack of opportunity here. I just don’t feel the need to continue to dwell on it at this point.

when Schmaltz is on his game he's an absolute force using his speed and playing a 200ft game..problem is his give a f*** meter burns out at times...that said it's been a good trade for both teams...hawks fans are happy with strome's progression since showing up...stuff happens when he's on the ice...he makes up for his skating with his awareness, hands, passing, puck skills etc..no reason that only one team has to win, it can work out for both sides

 

[RemoAZ]

Dylan Strome Appreciation Thread

I've posted a link to this thread before. It doesn't fit the narrative of the team apologists so they ignored it. I love reading those posts and am happy a team that's won cups recently are using Strome in the role he's always thrived in. Here he was asked to be a 4th line plug and criticized when he couldn't get points with guys that never score.

 

[hbk]

I've posted a link to this thread before. It doesn't fit the narrative of the team apologists so they ignored it. I love reading those posts and am happy a team that's won cups recently are using Strome in the role he's always thrived in. Here he was asked to be a 4th line plug and criticized when he couldn't get points with guys that never score.

I’ve watched some Hawk games since the trade. I wouldn’t call Strome a smashing success in Chicago. He has upside potential and he’s being given a chance with skilled linemates. He’s still more of a complimentary player than an offensive catalyst. No assists in last 10 considering who he’s spending the bulk of his playing time with is disappointing to a certain degree.

 

[rt]

I was much, much more angry about the Galchenyuk trade than I was about the Schmaltz trade. I’m pretty okay with the Schmaltz trade. I’ve been confused this whole time as to why our HF fan base seems to be losing their minds about the Schmaltz deal, but don’t really seem bothered by the Galchenyuk deal.

 

[TheLegend]

You should read the Chicago board. They think the exact opposite.

Chicago was headed to be a bigger hot mess than we were before the trade. Any improvement was going to be looked at as a godsend. And HF tends to overdo just about everything.

 

[AZviaNJ]

Trade evaluations obviously takes time.

Strome/Perls/Schmaltz is way too early to evaluate.

Domi/Galchenyuk is not trending well. We're nearing the 25% mark of Galchenyuk's remaining contract.

Chychrun/Datsyuk contract for Cholowski (6 goals/14 points with Det this year) and Hronek a RHD who has 18 points in 20 AHL games and 3 points in 9 games with Detroit this year. Young players, but this trade is also not trending well.

Stepan/Raanta for 2017 #7OA (Lias Andersson)/DeAngelo - was looking like a great trade for AZ, however, given Raanta health concerns its difficult to evaluate at this point.

Hammer for Murphy and Dauphin - big win AZ

Demers for McGinn - bigger win for AZ.

Hinostroza, Kuemper, Panik (I guess) all wins for Arizona.

Budget challenges aside, it's hard to give Chayka a "trade grade" of better than a C+ at this point.....but given he makes a trade once a month, any evaluation is a brief snapshot in time.

And this from the Athletic on "Revealing GM tendencies":

Trades/month: 1.03

Hockey trade: 59 percent
Buying: 25 percent
Selling: 9 percent
Other: 6 percent

Compared to his colleagues, a trades per month number north of one is remarkable. Chayka likes to deal and his trades come at all times of the year. The deals also come in all forms, from taking on contracts for cap space to trading a pick to get negotiating rights to a free agent. If Chayka hasn’t made a deal in a couple weeks, get ready.​

 

[RABBIT]

I was much, much more angry about the Galchenyuk trade than I was about the Schmaltz trade. I’m pretty okay with the Schmaltz trade. I’ve been confused this whole time as to why our HF fan base seems to be losing their minds about the Schmaltz deal, but don’t really seem bothered by the Galchenyuk deal.

This. I know Domi wanted out but the ROI so far has been abysmal. We could've mended the relationship too. Same with Strome, tough loss but i was never in love with the player and I'm happy with Schmaltz, but still.

f*** this year, ride it out. Take the top 15 pick. Fire the front office and coaching staff (hopefully Allen is the exception) if/when new ownership comes. Stop ruining relationships with our core.

 

[SniperHF]

I was much, much more angry about the Galchenyuk trade than I was about the Schmaltz trade. I’m pretty okay with the Schmaltz trade. I’ve been confused this whole time as to why our HF fan base seems to be losing their minds about the Schmaltz deal, but don’t really seem bothered by the Galchenyuk deal.

The Galchenyuk deal was a systemic failure. Failed to identify the better player in the deal, failed to maintain the relationship with Domi, failed to successfully integrate Galchenyuk even if he's the inferior player. You could conceivably (but probably not cause Coyotes) fix those problems.

The Schmaltz deal I see as a philosophical failure and that's why it concerns me more. I see no path forward for this team if they make a bunch of deals like that. It reeked of desperation, trading for a lower ceiling asset with a + included during a big losing streak while simultaneously never trying to develop the asset you actually traded.

 

[rt]

But I like Schmaltz and did at the time. He’s only a year older than Strome.

 

[CLW]

But I like Schmaltz and did at the time. He’s only a year older than Strome.

Sure, but trading Strome was not the way to go for him.

 

[SniperHF]

But I like Schmaltz and did at the time. He’s only a year older than Strome.

I'm not really set my hair on fire mad about either one, maybe some people are.
I see one as "well we f***ed that one up" and the other one as "well we're going to keep f***ing stuff up"


On a pure value basis I don't think we'll end up all that worse off on Schmaltz vs Strome if Strome continues to progress. I see it going either of these ways though:
1. We do the same thing to the next Strome in the organization only to see him start to take off elsewhere.
2. More likely we *ONLY* draft certain types and are so devoted to fitting prospects to what we're trying to do here rather than adapt to the players we have. Virtually every player on this roster is the same guy. I don't think that's a recipe for success.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

I think Schmaltz is likely to fit the bill of a top 6 forward in his career. I think Strome likely can fill the bill of a second line center at some point in his career. I think Perlini is going to be a passenger on 3rd lines of bad teams his whole career.

The key part of these statements is I think. Way too early to judge this trade as all these players are truthfully still prospects and far from proven commodities.

 

[Heldig]

The Domi trade was bad from day 1 (IMO). Got older, slower, less dynamic. less marketable, lost contract control...

The Strome trade was poor asset management. Jury is out that Schmaltz is a better player (I am on record as saying Strome will outscore him) but to give up 2 recent high first round picks is brutal. On top of that Chayka already traded a recent 7th overall. Not the direction for a low talented team that HAS to draft well and develop talent.

 

[TheLegend]

Continue here......

Confirmed with Link: - Coyotes trade Strome and Perlini for Nick Schmaltz - Part Deux