Confirmed with Link: Coyotes trade Strome and Perlini for Nick Schmaltz - Part Deux

[BUX7PHX]

Also, watching some of you compulsively bashing a young guy you were calling a bust and predicting he'd be out of the league within a year, who has more points in 55 games with his new team than our leading scorer has all season, because the 22 yr old blew coverage on an individual play after tying the game with one of his 2 goals/3 points that night as some kind of vindication will never, ever get old.

Yeah, one play or game doesn't the season or career make. I guess that my other interest comes in seeing what he did with his minutes - as an example, Strome has averaged 17:05 minutes of ice time in Chicago vs. 13:32 of ice time in Arizona. Now, let's look at some stats to form metric ideas around:

Strome (AZ): 68 total shots taken, 40 shots on goal, 3 G, 3 A, 20 GP

Strome (CHI): 154 total shots taken, 95 shots on goal, 16 G, 32 A, 55 GP


On average, Strome would take 1 shot per every 4.0 minutes of ice time, and a SOG every 6.8 minutes of ice time with Arizona.
On average, Strome would take 1 shot per every 6.1 minutes of ice time, and a SOG every 9 minutes of ice time with Chicago.

This is where the suggestion may come from that we didn't necessarily use him properly as a result of a lack of resources. He is getting his points while doing less in Chicago, which makes me ask a few questions and make some statements based on stats:

1. Other players need to drive the play for Strome to be as successful as possible. Chicago has more of those types than we do.
2. Was this the reason for Schmaltz having some troubles in Chicago prior to the deal? Schmaltz had nearly the same number of SOG and the same number of shots taken in 17 games in Arizona as he did in the 23 Chicago games in 2018-19. Is he the type of player that needs the puck on his stick to be more effective, which is hard to do if on a line with either Kane or DeBrincat?
3. Are the players who Strome is playing with taking pressure off so that he can do more with less? Players like Kane and DeBrincat - two players with 40+ goal scoring in their pocket may be players that other teams will spend time focusing on, which opens the ice up for others. Is this a root cause of the production difference?
4. Both Strome and Schmaltz saw an uptick in offensive zone starts of about 4.0-4.9% from old team to new team this year.
5. Strome's ice time has steadily increased - in Arizona, he was saddled with 12-14 minutes per game. Upon getting traded, that moved to 13-16 minutes in his first 10-15 games, and then that has increased to closer to 16-19 minutes. Much of that is coming from additional PP time as well.
6. Strome's FO% has dipped considerably.

This data is just a tool, but wouldn't it give someone pause and the time to question whether or not we were getting the best of Strome when everything seems to circle around the idea of Strome possibly being a poor fit for the team (which happens, but hopefully not to the point that we got with Strome early on)? Everything would trend to the idea that with more shot opportunities coming his way here, the stats and information would be reversed. Granted, it does not take into account shot quality, which could be half of the reason for the difference as well.

Something just doesn't add up in the equation to simply say that our coaching and management failed Strome 100%. I just think he was so down here, the trade to Chicago gave him some sort of new hope. Think Jason Segel's character in Forgetting Sarah Marshall. Arizona was pre-Mila Kunis, and Chicago was post-Mila Kunis.

 

[azcanuck]

Strome star quality is his above average vision on ice. Of course he would do better with guys who are offensively creative and can produce.
the other factor is as a young developing player is how was he handled here compared to there? We dont know the answer to that but the proof is in the pudding. He's really taken off in chicago.

 

[_Del_]

Is he the type of player that needs the puck on his stick to be more effective, which is hard to do if on a line with either Kane

Schmaltz's only real success has come with Kane. Unless we lean heavily on his four game post-post-trade sample. In fact, Strome has dour fewer points in 55 games than Schmaltz did the entire last season, his career season, so no, I don't know that I'd say that...

All your other points are obvious expressions of "creative players do better with other skilled players ". No kidding... Let's put Schmaltz on a line with Kempe and Archibald for awhile and scratch him after every mistake so we can see what we really have and how "mentally tough" he is before he wants out...

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Just in case this thread gets cut off at 1000, I want to say to everyone on both sides of this thread...

 

[cobra427]

Schmaltz's only real success has come with Kane. Unless we lean heavily on his four game post-post-trade sample. In fact, Strome has dour fewer points in 55 games than Schmaltz did the entire last season, his career season, so no, I don't know that I'd say that...

All your other points are obvious expressions of "creative players do better with other skilled players ". No kidding... Let's put Schmaltz on a line with Kempe and Archibald for awhile and scratch him after every mistake so we can see what we really have and how "mentally tough" he is before he wants out...

I had rather trade for Kane or Debrincat

 

[rt]

Yeah, one play or game doesn't the season or career make. I guess that my other interest comes in seeing what he did with his minutes - as an example, Strome has averaged 17:05 minutes of ice time in Chicago vs. 13:32 of ice time in Arizona. Now, let's look at some stats to form metric ideas around:

Strome (AZ): 68 total shots taken, 40 shots on goal, 3 G, 3 A, 20 GP

Strome (CHI): 154 total shots taken, 95 shots on goal, 16 G, 32 A, 55 GP


On average, Strome would take 1 shot per every 4.0 minutes of ice time, and a SOG every 6.8 minutes of ice time with Arizona.
On average, Strome would take 1 shot per every 6.1 minutes of ice time, and a SOG every 9 minutes of ice time with Chicago.

This is where the suggestion may come from that we didn't necessarily use him properly as a result of a lack of resources. He is getting his points while doing less in Chicago, which makes me ask a few questions and make some statements based on stats:

1. Other players need to drive the play for Strome to be as successful as possible. Chicago has more of those types than we do.
2. Was this the reason for Schmaltz having some troubles in Chicago prior to the deal? Schmaltz had nearly the same number of SOG and the same number of shots taken in 17 games in Arizona as he did in the 23 Chicago games in 2018-19. Is he the type of player that needs the puck on his stick to be more effective, which is hard to do if on a line with either Kane or DeBrincat?
3. Are the players who Strome is playing with taking pressure off so that he can do more with less? Players like Kane and DeBrincat - two players with 40+ goal scoring in their pocket may be players that other teams will spend time focusing on, which opens the ice up for others. Is this a root cause of the production difference?
4. Both Strome and Schmaltz saw an uptick in offensive zone starts of about 4.0-4.9% from old team to new team this year.
5. Strome's ice time has steadily increased - in Arizona, he was saddled with 12-14 minutes per game. Upon getting traded, that moved to 13-16 minutes in his first 10-15 games, and then that has increased to closer to 16-19 minutes. Much of that is coming from additional PP time as well.
6. Strome's FO% has dipped considerably.

This data is just a tool, but wouldn't it give someone pause and the time to question whether or not we were getting the best of Strome when everything seems to circle around the idea of Strome possibly being a poor fit for the team (which happens, but hopefully not to the point that we got with Strome early on)? Everything would trend to the idea that with more shot opportunities coming his way here, the stats and information would be reversed. Granted, it does not take into account shot quality, which could be half of the reason for the difference as well.

Something just doesn't add up in the equation to simply say that our coaching and management failed Strome 100%. I just think he was so down here, the trade to Chicago gave him some sort of new hope. Think Jason Segel's character in Forgetting Sarah Marshall. Arizona was pre-Mila Kunis, and Chicago was post-Mila Kunis.

So we’re the guy after the blonde but before the brunette? They’re the guy when he finally gets the brunette back at the very end?

 

[azcanuck]

Schmaltz's only real success has come with Kane. Unless we lean heavily on his four game post-post-trade sample. In fact, Strome has dour fewer points in 55 games than Schmaltz did the entire last season, his career season, so no, I don't know that I'd say that...

All your other points are obvious expressions of "creative players do better with other skilled players ". No kidding... Let's put Schmaltz on a line with Kempe and Archibald for awhile and scratch him after every mistake so we can see what we really have and how "mentally tough" he is before he wants out...

No his points are valid.
Strome doesnt create his own shot at all. He's a creative passer.
Schmaltz can create his own shot through his stickhandling.
there's a huge difference.
Strome's skill set is more unique and requires the right situation much more then Schmaltz's.
but time will tell with this trade. I'd say Chicago has a better chance of it working out for them.

 

[BUX7PHX]

No his points are valid.
Strome doesnt create his own shot at all. He's a creative passer.
Schmaltz can create his own shot through his stickhandling.
there's a huge difference.
Strome's skill set is more unique and requires the right situation much more then Schmaltz's.
but time will tell with this trade. I'd say Chicago has a better chance of it working out for them.

I just looked at the games when Schmaltz was in there, and it seemed like he had control of the puck in a better fashion and was comfortable taking a lead with the puck on his stick. People talk about how Strome would have benefit from Keller, remember that Keller went for 15 in 17 during the games that Schmaltz was on his line.

People can get their points in different ways, like Grabner on the PK.

I can also agree that Chicago has a better chance of this working out because of the chemistry that Strome and DeBrincat show from Erie has carried over - in fact, I had to look at DeBrincat's stats again to see this - he had 50 goals in juniors in his first two years - feats that neither Strome nor McDavid were able to do in juniors (granted, McDavid missed some significant time). 60 in his final season. We don't really have a pure, natural goal scorer on this team, which I also think would have helped Strome. We didn't have that, nor did we have the depth to make that type of move - the only way we were going to get a scorer would be to put Strome out there, which is what happened.

I think he was handled similarly - he started off getting about 12-15 minutes per night with the Coyotes, and in his first 10-15 games with the Hawks, he received similar time. He was given a little bit more PP time and was working with more stellar players with the Hawks. I understand wanting to give him great time right away, but what is the difference between that and the country club example, where players just get solid minutes on account of them being veterans? The difference is those veterans have proven themselves in the past, where a player like Strome is in the process of proving himself. Big difference and maybe he becomes a 100% complete player in the end. We focused on being better defensively, and I think that worked against.

So we’re the guy after the blonde but before the brunette? They’re the guy when he finally gets the brunette back at the very end?

Strome was. He kind of took some shit for granted in terms of being on the roster and maybe had an expectation to be in the lineup in meaningful ways without proving so behind the scenes, and was dumped at his lowest. The Blackhawks took a chance, and things developed after the funk he was in kind of took that out of it. He went for 6 points in his first 14 games, then just exploded for 42 points in 41 games. I think he shook off a lot of bad habits that he developed as a result of not finding time here and doing things his way. Or, the coaches told him to do it his way early and then refined that into something workable as Strome worked harder. Funny how when you start to work harder, it usually pays off.

Hell, I would even suggest that he may have been like the second time Segel got dumped and traveled away from Hawaii in the movie - he started to see that he wasn't helping shape his life in the direction that he wanted it to go, much like how Segel started to run and exercise before the Dracula puppet show. I would bet the farm that Strome took the trade and then the new opportunity to right the ship that came with it and started being a little more dedicated to the new team.

 

[Muppet]

Turns out no matter where you are in the world, this trade will find you.

I've been getting my bathroom renovated for the last few weeks and just had the flooring people come in to finish up. One of the blokes sees the Yotes jerseys on my bedroom wall and tells me he's a Blackhawks fan. We talk shit to eachother for a bit, but as he's walking out the door he says "Thanks for Strome by the way" and closes the door before I can reply.

For f***s sake.

 

[Mosby]

^ Trash his Yelp page.

 

[Schemp]

So the only reason why this thread keeps going on is because Schmaltz is on the injury list. And to think we could have traded the 3rd overall pick to Boston. I wonder if we could have gotten the 3 1st rounders that the Bruins had for the Strome, Merkley, Fischer picks. No wonder Maloney got fired.

 

[YotesFan47]

So the only reason why this thread keeps going on is because Schmaltz is on the injury list. And to think we could have traded the 3rd overall pick to Boston. I wonder if we could have gotten the 3 1st rounders that the Bruins had for the Strome, Merkley, Fischer picks. No wonder Maloney got fired.

Depends on who we picked with that, there was a good chance we ended up with Barzal/Connor, Zbroil/Chabot, and Debrusk which would be a lot better than Schmaltz. Connor and/or Barzal alone make that trade.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Turns out no matter where you are in the world, this trade will find you.

holy crap, you are still in NZ, right?

 

[Muppet]

holy crap, you are still in NZ, right?

Yep, thinking I was completely safe from any Coyotes related insults in person. Turns out nobody is safe.

 

[Jakey53]

Yep, thinking I was completely safe from any Coyotes related insults in person. Turns out nobody is safe.

Do you like it over there?

 

[MIGs Dog]

Turns out no matter where you are in the world, this trade will find you.

I've been getting my bathroom renovated for the last few weeks and just had the flooring people come in to finish up. One of the blokes sees the Yotes jerseys on my bedroom wall and tells me he's a Blackhawks fan. We talk **** to eachother for a bit, but as he's walking out the door he says "Thanks for Strome by the way" and closes the door before I can reply.

For ****s sake.

Hope you canceled the check.

 

[Sinurgy]

Yep, thinking I was completely safe from any Coyotes related insults in person. Turns out nobody is safe.

At this point I've accepted that all of us Coyotes fans were bad people in our previous lives and are now being punished.

 

[Jakey53]

At this point I've accepted that all of us Coyotes fans were bad people in our previous lives and are now being punished.

Post of the day.

 

[TheLegend]

At this point I've accepted that all of us Coyotes fans were bad people in our previous lives and are now being punished.

 

[RemoAZ]

Strome with goal #20. At 56 points on the season. I'd say that's a bit more than "hope".

 

[lanky]

So the only reason why this thread keeps going on is because Schmaltz is on the injury list. And to think we could have traded the 3rd overall pick to Boston. I wonder if we could have gotten the 3 1st rounders that the Bruins had for the Strome, Merkley, Fischer picks. No wonder Maloney got fired.

What?

 

[Jakey53]

Strome with goal #20. At 56 points on the season. I'd say that's a bit more than "hope".

Kane had is best year of his career. He gives a big "thank you" to Strome. If not for Strome, Kane wouldn't be close to those totals.

 

[TheLegend]

Strome with goal #20. At 56 points on the season. I'd say that's a bit more than "hope".

And most folks could care less....

 

[lanky]

And most folks could care less....

Those folks should care. It says a lot about Barroway/Chayka/Tocchet.

 

[TheLegend]

Those folks should care. It says a lot about Barroway/Chayka/Tocchet.

Only if you’re going to remain hung up on the “coulda woulda shouldas” of the world.

Not me.

Strome’s gone.

He was on double secret probation with us and Chayka pulled a Dean Wormer and dropped the big one.

The fact he hit 20 goals is nice.... good for him.

You can look at it like Radim Vabata. Played great for us because he fit in with the teammates he had here at the time. Pretty much sucked everywhere else, including teams that had better personnel to play with. That may end up being Strome’s case.

Send him off to Tampa Bay and he could end up sucking even worse than he did here.

It happens.

Next man up.