Coyotes for Sale?

[coyoteshockeyfan]

well, if the 2,000 season ticket number is true, forgive me if i disagree.

Even if such numbers are true, it makes no difference what that number is until the puck drops. If you are like me and all the other PHX ticket holders and get a long letter from the Coyotes talking about the lockout and how that affects you as a future ticket holder, youd be wary to re-up your package and have a wait and see attitude as well. At least we bought them an arena, Winnipeg never cared enough about the franchise to do that.

 

[Sammy*]

Sammy do you understand that coke heads, drunk drivers, income tax cheats, assaulters, wife beaters, philaderers, contract breakers, hit man seekers, vehicular are not RELATED on the CBA ISSUES while FINANCE is the MAJOR POINT of why the NHLPA won't trust the owners.

When 25% of the OWNERS are known for being investigate for FINANCIAL CRIMES & that they ask the NHLPA to believe their NHL NUMBER'$ , it's very relevant on why the NHLPA does not want PARTNERSHIP ?

Can you understand that ?

I've got news for ya. The reason why the NHLPA doesnt want to get into bed with the owners has nothing to do with their "concern" about the owners morality or truthfullness as there are ways & means of monitoring that (just ask the NBAPA or the NFLPA, but I guess you are smarter than them) , it has to do pure greed as the NHLPA is of the view that the players will make way more money with any systym (sp) other that an cap or a partnership. To believe otherwise is infantile.

 

[YellHockey*]

I dunno, how do you explain the number of coke heads, drunk drivers, income tax cheats, assaulters, wife beaters, philaderers, contract breakers, hit man seekers, vehicular homiciders...etc that all play in the NHL?

Go ahead... name all of them. What percentage of the NHL falls under these categories? I bet it is far smaller then the percent of NHL teams whose ownership is under investigation.

 

[YellHockey*]

I doubt if their arena is any farther than the Corel Centre is from Ottawa,

Well, you'd be wrong on that count considering the Corel Centre is in Ottawa. Doesn't get much closer then that!

They also don't have to buy a full season ticket package. There's a variety of packages available for people who can't go to all 40 games. Although the arena location is a factor, its impact can be overcome by icing an entertaining team, better marketing, and strategic alliances with public transportation. The arena itself, along with the new football stadium will generate economic development in the immediate area and expand the Coyotes local customer base. It won't happen overnight, but I suspect an adequately capitalized investor that participates in the development of the area will be making a bundle in 5-6 years.

I agree about this. It's not like Phoenix has a significant downtown core. It's no Boston or Manhattan. People are going to have to drive somewhere to get to the games. While the Scottsdale area may be the affluent part of town, there will be people who become season ticket holders because they live close to Glendale and the drive is easy for them.

And its not like the arena is terribly difficult to get to, it's near a major highway. According to the arena's website, it's only 15 minutes from downtown.

 

[Sinurgy]

I agree about this. It's not like Phoenix has a significant downtown core. It's no Boston or Manhattan. People are going to have to drive somewhere to get to the games. While the Scottsdale area may be the affluent part of town, there will be people who become season ticket holders because they live close to Glendale and the drive is easy for them.

And its not like the arena is terribly difficult to get to, it's near a major highway. According to the arena's website, it's only 15 minutes from downtown.

The East Valley is certainly the more affluent part of Phoenix but Glendale and surrounding areas are really starting to increase in upper middle class homes. It would've been better for the team had the arena been built in the original location but Scottsdale officials went and screwed the whole thing up. Lucky for us Glendale stepped up and got a deal done. Scottsdale couldn't do it even after the people voted Yes TWICE!!! So now instead of having one of the best hockey arena's and one of the best football stadiums down the street from me, they are now on the otherside of the freakin city. Oh man I better just move on before I start a big rant!!

Anyway, as much as I wish the arena was down the street it really is VERY easy to get too. As mentioned it is 15 minutes from downtown and is literally right off the freeway. Not to mention having free parking makes the whole process easier and faster. I can honestly say that it takes the same amount of time going to a game at Glendale Arena as it does when they played downtown if you calculate from the moment you leave your house to the moment you sit in your seats. The free parking makes all the difference!!!

 

[PecaFan]

When 25% of the OWNERS are known for being investigate for FINANCIAL CRIMES & that they ask the NHLPA to believe their NHL NUMBER'$ , it's very relevant on why the NHLPA does not want PARTNERSHIP ?

It's not relevant at all. The cap is based on independent auditors who have been approved by both sides.

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

It's not relevant at all. The cap is based on independent auditors who have been approved by both sides.

Well, one side has been limited by a non-disclosure clause. There's more to it than just the Leavitt Report. There's a Byzantium labyrinth of finances out there that are beyond the scope of the NHLPA's ability to document.

Personally, I don't care if the owners make a gazillion dollars. Heck, best thing for the sport. I'm all for it. As for those owners who's holdings are held privately, fine. They're under no obligation to reveal their books. Just stop trying to pin the players as being greedy. It's hypocritical.

 

[Sammy*]

Well, you'd be wrong on that count considering the Corel Centre is in Ottawa. Doesn't get much closer then that!



I agree about this. It's not like Phoenix has a significant downtown core. It's no Boston or Manhattan. People are going to have to drive somewhere to get to the games. While the Scottsdale area may be the affluent part of town, there will be people who become season ticket holders because they live close to Glendale and the drive is easy for them.

And its not like the arena is terribly difficult to get to, it's near a major highway. According to the arena's website, it's only 15 minutes from downtown.

The Corel Centre is in Kanata.

 

[Sammy*]

. Just stop trying to pin the players as being greedy. It's hypocritical.

The players are greedy. Thats why they wont agree to a salary cap. Or do you actually believe that the players are standing on "principal"? If you do, your NHLPA glasses need to be cleaned .
And oh, why is it that the independent auditors of the NBA & NFL have no apparent problem with the " Byzantium labyrinth of finances out there" but it would be impossible for the NHl's independent auditors to do the same. I think I know. Its spelled

GREED

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

I dunno, how do you explain the number of coke heads, drunk drivers, income tax cheats, assaulters, wife beaters, philaderers, contract breakers, hit man seekers, vehicular homiciders...etc that all play in the NHL?
Need I go on or should we now talk about Bob Goodenough's very good friend, David Frost?

Use your head, Sammy.

There's a huge difference.

These businessmen are getting indicted and investigated for illegalities in business.

These hockey players are getting indicted and investigated for illegalities in life.

If the Phoenix owner was rumored to be selling his team because of a lawsuit having to do with drunk driving, well, that's tough luck or bad news.

But he's getting investigated for shady business practices.
And now he's asking NHL players to trust his business practices.

So drop all this garbage about David Frost and Heatley.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

I've got news for ya. The reason why the NHLPA doesnt want to get into bed with the owners has nothing to do with their "concern" about the owners morality or truthfullness as there are ways & means of monitoring that (just ask the NBAPA or the NFLPA, but I guess you are smarter than them) , it has to do pure greed as the NHLPA is of the view that the players will make way more money with any systym (sp) other that an cap or a partnership. To believe otherwise is infantile.

Of course it's about greed.
This is a fight over money.
ANd the owners are radically changing the distribution of it.

It's about greed, sammy. On both ends.

I just don't think the owners should have realistically expected to get so much from players in one bargainning agreement after 10 years of neglect.
They probably could have won a luxury tax, a fairly decent one, without shutting down hockey for 4 months to two years.
They probably could have been playing in November with some honest negotiating and a responsible offer.

 

[YellHockey*]

The Corel Centre is in Kanata.

The Corel Centre is in the city of Ottawa. That's why the Corel Centre had to apply to the city of Ottawa to expand its capacity.

See http://www.corelcentre.com/news/2004/nr1215.aro for more information about that.

 

[Sammy*]

Of course it's about greed.
This is a fight over money.
ANd the owners are radically changing the distribution of it.

It's about greed, sammy. On both ends.

I just don't think the owners should have realistically expected to get so much from players in one bargainning agreement after 10 years of neglect.
They probably could have won a luxury tax, a fairly decent one, without shutting down hockey for 4 months to two years.
They probably could have been playing in November with some honest negotiating and a responsible offer.

Of course its about greed. But given the owners have lost hundreds of millions of dollars over the last number of years & the players have been the benficiary, imo its the time for the players to play by the rules the owners want to see implemented, to see if in fact that new systym can work. If it cannot work equitably, as imo the last CBA did not, then they can do this dance at the expiration of the next CBA .
But I really dont understand why you feel the owners are not negotiating honestly. The players have been as intractable as the owners in that they will not even discuss a salary cap. And to date, the owners are not prepared to discuss a new CBA without one. Its no different, & to to describe either party as been dishonest, or not negotiasting in good faith is imo ridiculous & simply histrionics. They both have their negotiating positions & there is nothing "dishonest" about either of them.

 

[Sammy*]

The Corel Centre is in the city of Ottawa. That's why the Corel Centre had to apply to the city of Ottawa to expand its capacity.

See http://www.corelcentre.com/news/2004/nr1215.aro for more information about that.

I have no idea why they might have had to apply to the city of Ottawa, but my understanding has always been that the Corel Centre was in Kanata, a city/town/village outside the City of Ottawa.

http://www.corelcentre.com/building/inside.aro

 

[SENSible1*]

I have no idea why they might have had to apply to the city of Ottawa, but my understanding has always been that the Corel Centre was in Kanata, a city/town/village outside the City of Ottawa.

http://www.corelcentre.com/building/inside.aro

BRG is just continuing with his usual brand of half-truths that would make his hero Goodenow proud. Par for the course, considering the source.

Kanata was recently amalagamated into a VERY large "City of Ottawa". His statement is accurate, but does not reflect the fact that the Corel Centre is located in the suburbs, well away from the centre of the old city of Ottawa.

 

[YellHockey*]

I have no idea why they might have had to apply to the city of Ottawa, but my understanding has always been that the Corel Centre was in Kanata, a city/town/village outside the City of Ottawa.

So you're going to argue with someone who lives in Ottawa about the location of the Corel Centre? Why am I not surprised that you're swallowing all the owner's garbage hook, line and sinker.

 

[Sammy*]

So you're going to argue with someone who lives in Ottawa about the location of the Corel Centre? Why am I not surprised that you're swallowing all the owner's garbage hook, line and sinker.

Clown, I wasnt arguing with you. I was obviously looking for a reasoned answer, which Thunderstruck gave & which you apparently dont have the IQ to give.You obviously are too thick to figure that out.
With intellects like you, why am I not surprised that you're swallowing all the NHLPA's garbage hook, line and sinker.

 

[PecaFan]

Well, one side has been limited by a non-disclosure clause. There's more to it than just the Leavitt Report. There's a Byzantium labyrinth of finances out there that are beyond the scope of the NHLPA's ability to document.

Oh please. Accountants aren't stupid. Every other capped league in the world is able to define what revenues are to the satisfaction of both sides, make an agreement, and choose auditors to verify the information.

But hockey is just so freakin' complicated, that it's beyond the ability of the human mind to grasp.

 

[thinkwild]

NBA and NFL came to an agreement on what revenues they were going to count. Both unions are already unhappy with that defintiion and want it expanded. Just because they agreed on some numbers doesnt mean they captured them all. Even baseball for the purposes of revenue sharing talk openly about how they shift revenues so they dont count.

The NHL could easily define a set of revenues and the PA could agree on them and monitor them. That doesnt mean they have true partnership where the players are getting 60% of the revenues. They are only getting 60& of the revenues the NHL is agreeing to share. The money they are agreeing to share is easy to monitor. NOt a sign they can easily define all the revenues.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

Oh please. Accountants aren't stupid. Every other capped league in the world is able to define what revenues are to the satisfaction of both sides, make an agreement, and choose auditors to verify the information.

But hockey is just so freakin' complicated, that it's beyond the ability of the human mind to grasp.

ok, im curious how you suggest the NHL should explain or make certain that there are no shenanigans such as this:

Cablevision for a few years running (long before a work stoppage was on the radar) report no profit from hockey. They already pay the Isles and Devils double what the Rangers reportedly make from television revenue just for the television rights

from post #37 at this link
http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=120975&page=2&pp=20

NYIsles1 is very informed at articulating the New York sports scene. I will believe his research.

So, how come NYR attracts less local TV money than NYI and NJD from the same cable company ? Is it a coincedence that the NYR and the cable company are owned by the same outfit ?

DR

 

[Sammy*]

The money they are agreeing to share is easy to monitor. NOt a sign they can easily define all the revenues.

Nothing is "easy' . I dont even know why you debate this point. Both you & the NHLPA & its shills have time & time again have been steadfast against revenue sharing, & both you & I know its not because of the alleged "mistrust" or the difficulty in setting out what revenues. Its simply because the NHLPA knows they cant **** & pillage as they have in the past (all freely agreed to by all parties) under that sort of a systym.

 

[GKJ]

Gretzky sure knows how to pick 'em. :lol

I keep telling people Gretzky is absolutely clueless about what exactly he is doing and here is another reason why.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

Of course its about greed. But given the owners have lost hundreds of millions of dollars over the last number of years & the players have been the benficiary, imo its the time for the players to play by the rules the owners want to see implemented, to see if in fact that new systym can work. If it cannot work equitably, as imo the last CBA did not, then they can do this dance at the expiration of the next CBA .
But I really dont understand why you feel the owners are not negotiating honestly. The players have been as intractable as the owners in that they will not even discuss a salary cap. And to date, the owners are not prepared to discuss a new CBA without one. Its no different, & to to describe either party as been dishonest, or not negotiasting in good faith is imo ridiculous & simply histrionics. They both have their negotiating positions & there is nothing "dishonest" about either of them.

Because if the owners were being honest, they wouldn't say they need "cost-certainty" They don't NEED it. No business in the world NEEDS cost-certainty.
Virtually no one in the world has it, from big-business to small business to the average dude paying the bills.
And it's pretty clear, to just about everyone in the hockey world that the owners strategy is to reach an impasse.
Although they've never said so publicly. Nope. We're supposed to believe that they've been trying to reach a deal to save the game. They haven't moved much at all.

 

[PecaFan]

ok, im curious how you suggest the NHL should explain or make certain that there are no shenanigans such as this:

If simple outsiders like us can look at a situation and discuss it, then surely accountants with detailed financial information can look at it, and come to an agreement that both sides are happy with.

 

[Sammy*]

. They haven't moved much at all.

Of course they havnt. They cant afford to. Thats where the NHLPA fans just cant seem to get it.