Coyotes buy and move AHL Springfield to Tucson for 2016-17 (UPD: Vote 7-0 in Favor)

Ralph Slate

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Feb 16, 2007
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If those terms are accurate, it seems like the Coyotes got screwed. They pay $10k per game in rent PLUS more than $4 per ticket (how much is the arena charge?) to various outside parties? With a ten year lease? Wow.

I was also a little stunned that the business district's economic projections are for 7,000 sellouts each game with each person spending $30 downtown before each game:

The TCC can seat 7,000 hockey fans. At 34 sold-out games, and with each person spending an average of $30 on downtown restaurants and shops, this deal could bring a $7 million economic impact, McCusker told the board.

So you mean to tell me that if I take 3 kids to a hockey game, I'm going to spend $120 before the game? And then I'm going to spend another $50 on tickets, plus another $30 on concessions? In a market that couldn't get 1,500 per game with cheaper tickets in a much better economy (the CHL's Gila Monsters)?

Yes, I'm definitely a little bitter that the Falcons moved, but it seems to me that this has Hindenburg written all over it.
 

210

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Tuscon will break even on the deal if they only average 1000 paid attendance per game. They're already on the way to that in ticket deposits alone in the past 18 hours.

In 2014-15 the average operating budget for an AHL team was in the $2.2M neighborhood...so they need a whole lot more than 1K per game to break even.
 

Sports Enthusiast

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Tuscon will break even on the deal if they only average 1000 paid attendance per game. They're already on the way to that in ticket deposits alone in the past 18 hours.

I'm banking on their parent club not being around that long. Everyone knows its been on the franchise life support list at the top for all pro sports leagues for a few years now.
 

LadyStanley

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I'm banking on their parent club not being around that long. Everyone knows its been on the franchise life support list at the top for all pro sports leagues for a few years now.

And they (finally?) have a stable owner, with a plan.

Just need to get the arena situation figured out for long term stability.
 

Ralph Slate

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Feb 16, 2007
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Tuscon will break even on the deal if they only average 1000 paid attendance per game. They're already on the way to that in ticket deposits alone in the past 18 hours.

That's obviously way false, even if you take the player salaries and push them into Arizona's budget (with an independent team, the player salaries are represented by the franchise fee which is somewhere between $750k and $1.5m - paid by the AHL operator to the NHL parent team in exchange for the players assigned)

Assuming that the $2.2m budget is accurate and includes the franchise fee, it now comes down a simple formula between ticket prices and number of tickets sold.

That is where the $4+ per ticket comes into play - it really botches up your revenue. If you figure that $20 is your top game-day price, then you're only getting $16 in revenue from that ticket. If you're going to set kids prices at $10, you're only going to get $6 from those tickets. If you want to set your season ticket/group discount prices at $14, you're only going to get $10 from those tickets.

Assuming that those prices hold, and that you do 20% kids, 40% season ticket/group, and 40% game-day, that means you need 5,218 to break even, and if you average 4,000, you're losing a half-million that season.
 

TheLegend

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Aug 30, 2009
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In 2014-15 the average operating budget for an AHL team was in the $2.2M neighborhood...so they need a whole lot more than 1K per game to break even.

I was referring to the city. Not the team.

:help:

Biggest hurdle in getting this approved was that Tuscon was protected. They have that in place. They get $300k, in rent, plus 50% of concessions and naming rights. On top of the $2-3 per ticket in user fees.

If the team leaves in 5 years (triggered only if avg paid attendance in under 2500 per game) the Coyotes will have to pay off any outstanding debt on the $3.7 million Rio Nuevo spends on upgrades.
 
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Ralph Slate

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Feb 16, 2007
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If the team leaves in 5 years (triggered only if avg paid attendance in under 2500 per game) the Coyotes will have to pay off any outstanding debt on the $3.7 million Rio Nuevo spends on upgrades.

So like I said, the Coyotes got a miserable deal here. They're paying $4+ off the top of each ticket plus $300k per year in rent. They are entering an untested market which has spectacularly failed at hockey in the past (mid-season fold with an under 1,400 attendance). They have an effective 5 year lease with a substantial penalty if they pull out before that.

I bet their travel costs will be substantial - they are 6 hours from San Diego, 6.5 hours from Ontario, 9 hours from Bakersfield, 12 hours from San Jose, 12 hours from Stockton, and 12 hours from San Antonio. Seems like they will have to fly to most, if not all their games. I read that St. John's pays each team $27k to subsidize road trips there, so I have to make a SWAG that Tucson will make at least 20 flights per season which is $500k. Maybe peanuts to an NHL team, maybe not - but definitely huge in the context of a $2.2m AHL team budget. If NHL teams see a few million for "development" as a "cost of doing business", then why are they even charging their farm teams the franchise fee? Why do so many of them skimp on talent for their affiliates to the point where they are noncompetitive?
 

wildcat48

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Jul 16, 2005
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So like I said, the Coyotes got a miserable deal here. They're paying $4+ off the top of each ticket plus $300k per year in rent. They are entering an untested market which has spectacularly failed at hockey in the past (mid-season fold with an under 1,400 attendance). They have an effective 5 year lease with a substantial penalty if they pull out before that.

I bet their travel costs will be substantial - they are 6 hours from San Diego, 6.5 hours from Ontario, 9 hours from Bakersfield, 12 hours from San Jose, 12 hours from Stockton, and 12 hours from San Antonio. Seems like they will have to fly to most, if not all their games. I read that St. John's pays each team $27k to subsidize road trips there, so I have to make a SWAG that Tucson will make at least 20 flights per season which is $500k. Maybe peanuts to an NHL team, maybe not - but definitely huge in the context of a $2.2m AHL team budget. If NHL teams see a few million for "development" as a "cost of doing business", then why are they even charging their farm teams the franchise fee? Why do so many of them skimp on talent for their affiliates to the point where they are noncompetitive?

This deal has to be looked at from two perspectives. The City of Tucson and Rio Nuevo relationship with the Coyotes which is hammered out in the lease agreement and Coyotes opting to move their affiliation to the west coast to be closer to their base of operations.

I don’t think the Coyotes are getting screwed by the lease at all. It’s their own doing for wanting to move to the west coast. I don’t see anything nefarious with the agreement. It’s a fairly standard AHL lease.

Rent is about average for market size. Team and Arena share most revenues 50-50 with the lone exception of static ad revenue which the team keeps 100%. The fees are a little high than most markets, potentially being anywhere from $3 to $6 dollars in total fees.

The major protection for the Rio Nuevo is the team paying back the remaining balance of the $3.7M in capital expenses. The protection for the City of Tucson comes from several revenue sources, rent, net profits from concessions, parking, signage and naming rights.

According the figures given by council for paid attendance of 1000 per game, they estimate total revenues to be $605,270. On the flipside, they estimate operating cost to be 356,000, which is explained in Sec. 7 and 8 of the lease agreement. You can see the breakdown for paid attendance of 2,500, 3,500 and 5,000 per game…. I tend to believe they’ll fall somewhere in between 3,000 and 5,000 in paid attendance.

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So it’s a pretty fair lease for all parties in that regard.

However, this is going to be a huge money loser for the Coyotes, but it’s the cost of doing business in the AHL now as NHL teams want their AHL affiliate closer to them and not clustered as the AHL has done in the past. The biggest expense increase that teams in the AHL will have to deal with moving forward is going to be travel within the league, not travel to recall a player. In just the last two seasons, travel has increased by more than 30% percent according to a pair of “now former†AHL team executives. What was once 2.2M to operate a franchise has jumped to $3M depending on the market. With the loss of Portland, Manchester and Worcester in the northeast those cost are going to climb. It’s already a high cost in the western conference with new Pacific Division. You’re correct. Tucson will likely have to fly to most locations or fly to a central location and bus for the remaining road trip. It will become that way even for teams in east eventually as what was once regularly three or four hour bus trips will be six or seven hour bus trips. It’s going to lead to teams making a decision on flying and that’s going to lead to more hotel stays, less practice and rest time that only five years ago every western GM praised as a primary reason for wanting to be in the northeast, the east coast or within the midwest cluster. They tried to counter that by less games, but that’s only made a mockery of the AHL having one group of teams play 68 games vs. the rest playing 76 games.

Personally, I believe the days of teams being clustered in order to reduce travel cost are over. The league will become more spread out and travel cost will be just become part of the business. Western NHL teams want to say it’s for development purposes, but I call ********. It’s for salary cap reasons. They need to use development as a way to justify the move. It is what it is. In fact, I know by just looking at the northeast with Portland, Manchester, Worcester gone not for lack of fan support, but rising cost eventually several other northeastern markets with lose their AHL teams NHL team move their affiliate closer to the parent club.

The affiliation fee helps offset player’s salaries, but it’s not required to be used to offset veteran salaries. It’s just salaries in general. In the case of an NHL team that owns its affiliate, it’s just moving money from column A to column B in a ledger. As far as skimping on talent, that’s going to become a more regular occurrence as teams seek to have more prospects in the lineup on a nightly basis. The PHPA fought hard to keep the veteran limit at five-plus-one, but I’m willing to bet at some point it will be reduced as more NHL teams own their AHL affiliates.
 

Ralph Slate

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Feb 16, 2007
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The PHPA fought hard to keep the veteran limit at five-plus-one, but I’m willing to bet at some point it will be reduced as more NHL teams own their AHL affiliates.

I am really surprised at how, when you rank the AHL teams by game weighted average age, they only range from 22.4 years (St. John's) to 25.0 years (Albany).

The NHL ranges from 25.4 (Carolina) to 27.9 (Rangers). It isn't quite an apples-to-apples comparison because 18 and 19 year old players can play in the NHL, but generally cannot play in the AHL (they have to return to their junior teams).

It seems like there is a decent-sized hole for hockey in the USA, with players who are not good enough for the NHL, but too young to stop playing at 24 years old. The IHL tried this but couldn't handle a national travel schedule. Even if the ECHL occupies the Northeast, they are still very close to the NHL and probably wouldn't break ranks to become such a league.

I think that all this focus on "development" and "tomorrow's stars today" really takes away from the value of the league, which is to provide quality entertainment in the form of competitive hockey games. The constant churning of players in Springfield made it hard for me - someone who follows hockey - to be invested in the team. There have been 39 players who played more than 250 games for a Springfield AHL team. This achievement has happened just 2 times for players who started playing since 2000. 44 players played 5 or more seasons for a Springfield AHL team, but just 3 who started playing since 2000. The game is very much about the players, and a carousel of players in and out is not conducive to fan support.
 

royals119

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That is where the $4+ per ticket comes into play - it really botches up your revenue. If you figure that $20 is your top game-day price, then you're only getting $16 in revenue from that ticket. If you're going to set kids prices at $10, you're only going to get $6 from those tickets. If you want to set your season ticket/group discount prices at $14, you're only going to get $10 from those tickets.
I don't think those fees are paid by the AHL team, they are paid by the fan. A $16 ticket costs the fan $20 (or $19.50, or whatever), with the team getting $16, and the arena/city keeping the fees. Not an uncommon arrangement - if you have bought a concert ticket in the last several years you will find the same thing.
Western NHL teams want to say it’s for development purposes, but I call ********. It’s for salary cap reasons. They need to use development as a way to justify the move. .
I don't think they have been hiding that fact, or trying to justify it. The two main benefits of the moves closer to the parent team are #1 Salary cap savings (they don't have to put the player on the NHL roster for 2-3 extra days while he is traveling) and #2 being close by for quick callups and for the NHL coaching staff to see those players more often.

With the "northeast cluster" getting smaller every year, the travel costs are going to get more similar between east and west. For most NHL teams spending a few hundred thousand extra dollars on AHL travel, in order to save a million against the cap is a good trade - and if they do a better job developing their draft picks at the same time -even better.
 

MM658

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Feb 7, 2011
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I think that all this focus on "development" and "tomorrow's stars today" really takes away from the value of the league, which is to provide quality entertainment in the form of competitive hockey games. ... The game is very much about the players, and a carousel of players in and out is not conducive to fan support.
Totally agree. Even college hockey has more roster stability than the AHL. Constantly having to learn a new set of "green" players, who move on before establishing a connection with the fan base is certainly limiting in its appeal to the minor league market. Some people enjoy that sort of thing; others -- especially the more casual fans who go only a few times per year -- would prefer to not see a completely new set of unfamiliar names every season.

But that toothpaste long ago left the tube.

...The two main benefits of the moves closer to the parent team are #1 Salary cap savings (they don't have to put the player on the NHL roster for 2-3 extra days while he is traveling) and #2 being close by for quick callups and for the NHL coaching staff to see those players more often. ... For most NHL teams spending a few hundred thousand extra dollars on AHL travel, in order to save a million against the cap is a good trade ...
I've said it before and will say it again: if the salary cap issue was seen as negatively impacting some NHL teams unfairly, I don't understand why they didn't pursue FIXING the loophole (change the way the cap calculation works for call-ups) to resolve the issue, rather than blowing up existing AHL business model. "I have a paper cut on my finger -clearly, I need to cut off my hand to fix this." :shakehead
 

Ralph Slate

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Feb 16, 2007
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I've said it before and will say it again: if the salary cap issue was seen as negatively impacting some NHL teams unfairly, I don't understand why they didn't pursue FIXING the loophole (change the way the cap calculation works for call-ups) to resolve the issue, rather than blowing up existing AHL business model. "I have a paper cut on my finger -clearly, I need to cut off my hand to fix this."

I think that it was more an unintended consequence of the salary cap, that it just crept up on the NHL and AHL. A few teams used it to their advantage, then a few more, and then now it almost needs to be done or you're at a disadvantage. More than once this year, I saw a player called up (mostly to San Jose) in the morning and then reassigned a couple of hours later.

I think that after a few years of losing a couple of million a year on their now-owned AHL affiliates, the NHL will need to address the issue - especially if the price of fuel, and thus air travel, increases. I still don't understand how it helps the team of prospects to spend so much time traveling rather than practicing.
 

royals119

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Totally agree. Even college hockey has more roster stability than the AHL. Constantly having to learn a new set of "green" players, who move on before establishing a connection with the fan base is certainly limiting in its appeal to the minor league market. Some people enjoy that sort of thing; others -- especially the more casual fans who go only a few times per year -- would prefer to not see a completely new set of unfamiliar names every season.

But that toothpaste long ago left the tube.
I think the casual fan, who only attends a few games, doesn't even know the players, so it doesn't matter to them at all. It is more the half-season STH, who isn't committed enough to read every article and watch the transactions, or someone who is used to following a major league team and expects that type of roster stability (although even that is becoming more rare in the era of free agents and salary caps).
Some fans, regardless of how frequent they attend, or how committed they are, like to pick a favorite player and follow him. That is hard to do in the minors.

I've said it before and will say it again: if the salary cap issue was seen as negatively impacting some NHL teams unfairly, I don't understand why they didn't pursue FIXING the loophole (change the way the cap calculation works for call-ups) to resolve the issue, rather than blowing up existing AHL business model. "I have a paper cut on my finger -clearly, I need to cut off my hand to fix this." :shakehead
You say that like changing the collective bargaining agreement is a simple fix. Neither the league or the union wants to open it up before it expires, and this issue isn't something the league as a whole is likely to want to make other concessions to obtain. The union is going to want the players to be paid their NHL wage from the moment they are notified, and if they give that up they are going to want some other significant concession. Since all teams are not equally impacted by this issue the league is not likely to to make that concession - so individual teams have to fix it outside of changing the CBA.
I think that after a few years of losing a couple of million a year on their now-owned AHL affiliates, the NHL will need to address the issue - especially if the price of fuel, and thus air travel, increases. I still don't understand how it helps the team of prospects to spend so much time traveling rather than practicing.
I think you will see them "fix" that by continuing to press for less games - thereby reducing travel and leaving more time for practice.
 

Ralph Slate

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Feb 16, 2007
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I think you will see them "fix" that by continuing to press for less games - thereby reducing travel and leaving more time for practice.

... and therefore increasing the chance of failure, since much of an AHL team's costs don't vary with the number of games played, yet revenue does.

Think of it this way: 8 games times 5,000 fans times $10 = $400k right off the bottom line.
 

offkilter

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Jan 18, 2014
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... and therefore increasing the chance of failure, since much of an AHL team's costs don't vary with the number of games played, yet revenue does.

Think of it this way: 8 games times 5,000 fans times $10 = $400k right off the bottom line.

At this current point in time I don't think the NHL care about how much their owned teams take in revenue or how much their travel expenses cost for that matter.

Five years down the road when several of them look at their ledgers and realize they have lost upwards of 2-3 million dollars in that span they'll go into panic mode.
 

PSGJ

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Five years down the road when several of them look at their ledgers and realize they have lost upwards of 2-3 million dollars in that span they'll go into panic mode.

That's less than the NHL minimum wage over 5 years and they have no doubt already looked at those costs and deemed it money well spent.
 

210

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At this current point in time I don't think the NHL care about how much their owned teams take in revenue or how much their travel expenses cost for that matter.

Five years down the road when several of them look at their ledgers and realize they have lost upwards of 2-3 million dollars in that span they'll go into panic mode.

I would bet there are NHL owned AHL teams that will lose close to those numbers just this season...
 

royals119

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... and therefore increasing the chance of failure, since much of an AHL team's costs don't vary with the number of games played, yet revenue does.

Think of it this way: 8 games times 5,000 fans times $10 = $400k right off the bottom line.
I don't think even the NHL owners are suggesting to cut the schedule by 16 games, but let's accept your premise. 8 less home games = 400,000 less in income. 8 less road games = 280 less plane tickets ($56,000), 420 less hotel rooms ($63,000), 12 less days of paying for bus ($12,000), 420 less per diem checks($42,000) (conservatively estimating four two game trips, with one extra day of travel and 35 people traveling) That is $173,000 back to the bottom line, plus they could renegotiate the building lease for 8 less games, cut their game day staff, and attendance would likely go up for the other home games, since the casual fans and groups that would have attended those 8 would just pick a different game to attend instead.

If, as a result of the more hands on approach with their draft picks at the beginning of their careers they get one more useful NHL player on an entry level contract per year, vs having to sign a free agent to fill that role, they save $1,000,000 per year, they are way ahead financially.

At this current point in time I don't think the NHL care about how much their owned teams take in revenue or how much their travel expenses cost for that matter.

Five years down the road when several of them look at their ledgers and realize they have lost upwards of 2-3 million dollars in that span they'll go into panic mode.
I don't think NHL owners are going to panic over $2-3 million dollars. Most teams are paying at least one guy that much not to play for them. (LTIR, buyouts, retained salary from trades, etc)

That's less than the NHL minimum wage over 5 years and they have no doubt already looked at those costs and deemed it money well spent.

exactly - relative to their other costs this isn't a lot of money, and with their biggest cost being player salaries, and one of the biggest obstacles to winning being the cap, anything they can do to develop young (i.e. cheap) players, is worth it.
 

crimsonace

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If the AHL cuts games out of the schedule, the games that get cut would most likely be those midweek and Sunday games that are money-losers anyway (where gate attendance usually numbers in the hundreds, yet concessions have to be staffed, security has to be paid, and a road team has to pay for travel and hotel).

The ticket revenue lost would be pretty negligible (largely from full-season STHs), but the money saved on not having to pay per-game variable expenses AND having to travel fewer dates would more than make up for it, even if player salaries/expenses & fixed costs don't change.

A few years ago, our local USHL team actually moved its midweek games to a practice rink to save on expenses, because it could hold the 1,000 or so people who would come to such a game. When the arena closed for renovations for two seasons, it played about 13-14 games in the practice rink (mostly midweek games, Sunday games and games where there were date conflicts with the main arena) and the rest in an NBA arena. The front office could concentrate on selling those 16 or so "prime" weekend & holiday dates, and as a result, drew pretty good crowds. The total season attendance wasn't much different than when it played the full schedule in its arena.

A shorter schedule, if it's based on spreading 60 or 66 games over 26 weeks (in which most weeks would feature 2 games) is preferable to a front office to spreading 76 games over 26 weeks (which averages nearly 3 games/week) by cutting out those undesirable midweek dates.
 

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