Coyotes buy and move AHL Springfield to Tucson for 2016-17 (UPD: Vote 7-0 in Favor)

Ralph Slate

Registered User
Feb 16, 2007
59
2
The AHL is undergoing an existential issue right now. What should it serve to minimize? NHL-AHL call-up times, travel times between AHL games, or monetary losses?

It is cannot serve all of those constraints for long. If there is an advantage to having your farm players "close by", as in "within a 2-3 hour car ride" - and I suspect there is primarily for salary-cap reasons - then there are significant problems with these cities in the AHL: Portland, Syracuse/Binghamton (one could possibly partner with Ottawa), Milwaukee, Bakersfield, St. John's (we know they're going), Utica.

Basically you would end up with an AHL that aligned very closely with the NHL - for each NHL city, draw a 150 mile map and find a place to put an AHL team. That strategy increases the costs of travel, and also forces teams to play long road trips.

If you go in the other direction, then you need an NHL that is tight enough to keep travel costs down - but you either need 30 teams in one geographic area (not likely), or you need separate divisions that can play more or less independently. But neither of those strategies works with the "must be within 150 miles of the NHL team" philosophy.

For the third thing, attendance, the AHL used to be a 3,000 to 5,000 persons per game league, with a couple of outliers. It is now a 5,000 to 10,000 persons per game league, and is trying hard to become a 7,500 to 10,000 persons per game league. That is at odds with both the other strategies because larger cities are more spread out, and larger cities are often not near NHL cities.

Regarding Springfield, there are a few issues which I'd like to address. First off, a team doesn't garner fans simply by being there - they have to sell and market themself. The current ownership of the Falcons was abysmal. I would attribute a 1,000 fans decrease per game due to the ownership and the team president. They didn't know what they were doing at all, they didn't follow up on leads for tickets, they didn't even know how to sell tickets. I asked my season ticket representative about having more flexibility with seats this year, and he said "well, maybe season tickets just aren't for you". That is preposterous for a salesperson to say.

Next, a team needs to have at least some winning seasons. Prior to their Columbus affiliation, the team was legitimately bad for 12 straight years, making the playoffs just once in that period (it was when the AHL expanded the playoffs with a Qualification Round). They had four seasons where their winning percentage was in the 0.300's, and if you omit the percentage inflation due to SOL/OTL, in their worst season they were under 0.300 until the final game of the year, which put them exactly at 0.300. In another of those years, the Falcons had a 17 game losing streak. Winning matters, people do not want to go to game after game to see the team lose more than 70% of the time. I would estimate that the losing cost the franchise, cumulatively, another 1,000 fans per game.

The Columbus affiliation was a step in the right direction. Not only was the team winning, but they played a better brand of hockey. It was more exciting to watch. Attendance went up a bit, but the ownership group did not promote the team. That culminated with this final season with the only newspaper in Springfield not covering the games with a reporter. They only printed a small blurb in the paper written by the team's radio broadcaster (or by a computer - the writeups were poorly done). There were no day-of-game articles, and the team even stopped sending updates to its email list (which I bet must have several thousand names on it). I'm curious, is there any other AHL market where the news media doesn't even cover the team?

The Springfield market can't compete with San Diego or Ontario CA - it's not going to get 8,000 fans per game. However it is possible to get 5,000 fans per game with a decent team and a decent front office. Unfortunately that isn't the direction in which the AHL is moving. They want higher attendances, and they want a geographically diverse league aligned with NHL teams. There are just 5 Atlantic NHL teams (excluding the Canadian teams who will likely want their affiliates in Canada due to exchange issues), that means there can be just 5 Atlantic AHL teams. When there are 10-12 teams in the Atlantic seaboard, Springfield can fit. It just isn't in the top 5.
 

axecrew

Registered User
Feb 6, 2007
2,293
594
The AHL is undergoing an existential issue right now. What should it serve to minimize? NHL-AHL call-up times, travel times between AHL games, or monetary losses?

It is cannot serve all of those constraints for long. If there is an advantage to having your farm players "close by", as in "within a 2-3 hour car ride" - and I suspect there is primarily for salary-cap reasons - then there are significant problems with these cities in the AHL: Portland, Syracuse/Binghamton (one could possibly partner with Ottawa), Milwaukee, Bakersfield, St. John's (we know they're going), Utica.

Basically you would end up with an AHL that aligned very closely with the NHL - for each NHL city, draw a 150 mile map and find a place to put an AHL team. That strategy increases the costs of travel, and also forces teams to play long road trips.

If you go in the other direction, then you need an NHL that is tight enough to keep travel costs down - but you either need 30 teams in one geographic area (not likely), or you need separate divisions that can play more or less independently. But neither of those strategies works with the "must be within 150 miles of the NHL team" philosophy.

For the third thing, attendance, the AHL used to be a 3,000 to 5,000 persons per game league, with a couple of outliers. It is now a 5,000 to 10,000 persons per game league, and is trying hard to become a 7,500 to 10,000 persons per game league. That is at odds with both the other strategies because larger cities are more spread out, and larger cities are often not near NHL cities.

Regarding Springfield, there are a few issues which I'd like to address. First off, a team doesn't garner fans simply by being there - they have to sell and market themself. The current ownership of the Falcons was abysmal. I would attribute a 1,000 fans decrease per game due to the ownership and the team president. They didn't know what they were doing at all, they didn't follow up on leads for tickets, they didn't even know how to sell tickets. I asked my season ticket representative about having more flexibility with seats this year, and he said "well, maybe season tickets just aren't for you". That is preposterous for a salesperson to say.

Next, a team needs to have at least some winning seasons. Prior to their Columbus affiliation, the team was legitimately bad for 12 straight years, making the playoffs just once in that period (it was when the AHL expanded the playoffs with a Qualification Round). They had four seasons where their winning percentage was in the 0.300's, and if you omit the percentage inflation due to SOL/OTL, in their worst season they were under 0.300 until the final game of the year, which put them exactly at 0.300. In another of those years, the Falcons had a 17 game losing streak. Winning matters, people do not want to go to game after game to see the team lose more than 70% of the time. I would estimate that the losing cost the franchise, cumulatively, another 1,000 fans per game.

The Columbus affiliation was a step in the right direction. Not only was the team winning, but they played a better brand of hockey. It was more exciting to watch. Attendance went up a bit, but the ownership group did not promote the team. That culminated with this final season with the only newspaper in Springfield not covering the games with a reporter. They only printed a small blurb in the paper written by the team's radio broadcaster (or by a computer - the writeups were poorly done). There were no day-of-game articles, and the team even stopped sending updates to its email list (which I bet must have several thousand names on it). I'm curious, is there any other AHL market where the news media doesn't even cover the team?

The Springfield market can't compete with San Diego or Ontario CA - it's not going to get 8,000 fans per game. However it is possible to get 5,000 fans per game with a decent team and a decent front office. Unfortunately that isn't the direction in which the AHL is moving. They want higher attendances, and they want a geographically diverse league aligned with NHL teams. There are just 5 Atlantic NHL teams (excluding the Canadian teams who will likely want their affiliates in Canada due to exchange issues), that means there can be just 5 Atlantic AHL teams. When there are 10-12 teams in the Atlantic seaboard, Springfield can fit. It just isn't in the top 5.

Yes.... Chicago. The Wolves get next to no coverage at all in one paper and absolutely none in the other...to the point that I don't even buy the paper anymore.

BTW...Ralph...I thought you were no longer among the living...so imagine my shock to see you posting on here. The reason??? The checklist portion of your site has been terribly neglected for a number of years now and is missing a number of mainstream sets and individual cards for players.
 

Jackets Woodchuck

Registered User
Dec 27, 2010
4,162
291
So they can have full control over the development and coaching of their prospects.

Baseball teams don't own their farm teams, for the most part, but hire the manager, coaches, and trainers and have all players under contract to them, while offloading the money-losing business aspect on someone else.

Why is this not an option in hockey?
 

MM658

Registered User
Feb 7, 2011
192
2
Springfield, MA area
Baseball teams don't own their farm teams, for the most part, but hire the manager, coaches, and trainers and have all players under contract to them, while offloading the money-losing business aspect on someone else.

Why is this not an option in hockey?
It is, in fact, an option in hockey, and the way things have been done for decades. Parent clubs always hire the coaches and are in control of player development. Any argument that it's necessary to own the farm club to accomplish that is baloney.
 

Jackets Woodchuck

Registered User
Dec 27, 2010
4,162
291
It is, in fact, an option in hockey, and the way things have been done for decades. Parent clubs always hire the coaches and are in control of player development. Any argument that it's necessary to own the farm club to accomplish that is baloney.

That's what I thought.
 

royals119

Registered User
Jun 12, 2006
1,457
1,139
West Lawn, PA
It is, in fact, an option in hockey, and the way things have been done for decades. Parent clubs always hire the coaches and are in control of player development. Any argument that it's necessary to own the farm club to accomplish that is baloney.

But if the AHL team is independently owned the NHL team doesn't usually pay for the AHL contracted players, and many times they charge the AHL owner an affiliation fee. That typically isn't the case with minor league baseball AFAIK. There was an article in our local paper about the business aspects of the local AA baseball team a while back. The local owner said he has no costs or responsibility for what happens on the field. All the players, coaches, trainers, etc are hired and paid by the Major League team. He keeps all the ticket sales, concessions, parking, and his only expenses are stadium maintenance, concession workers, ushers, ticket sales staff and food costs.

Of course NHL teams could potentially sign an entire AHL roster to NHL contracts and not charge the local owner any fees, but that is not typically how it works. At least I don't think so.
 

Nightsquad

Registered User
Jan 25, 2014
834
100
But if the AHL team is independently owned the NHL team doesn't usually pay for the AHL contracted players, and many times they charge the AHL owner an affiliation fee. That typically isn't the case with minor league baseball AFAIK. There was an article in our local paper about the business aspects of the local AA baseball team a while back. The local owner said he has no costs or responsibility for what happens on the field. All the players, coaches, trainers, etc are hired and paid by the Major League team. He keeps all the ticket sales, concessions, parking, and his only expenses are stadium maintenance, concession workers, ushers, ticket sales staff and food costs.

Of course NHL teams could potentially sign an entire AHL roster to NHL contracts and not charge the local owner any fees, but that is not typically how it works. At least I don't think so.

Even most non NHL owned teams dont sign "their" own players. They pay affiliation fees to the NHL club to provide players. Thats is a luxury very few AHL teams were able to do. Hershey and Chicago were exceptions. Back when Albany was owned locally the River Rats paid the Devils then Carolina affiliation fees of over 1 million per season. The league is going in the direction of the NHL owned model, much like that of the NBA-D.
There is also a move to change league bylaws whereby each AHL team has to be located within 8 hours drive or 4 hour direct flight to their NHL club.... The league ia going to see big change after next year.
 

LadyStanley

Registered User
Sep 22, 2004
106,641
19,604
Sin City
Of course NHL teams could potentially sign an entire AHL roster to NHL contracts and not charge the local owner any fees, but that is not typically how it works. At least I don't think so.

Difficult with the 50 contract limit. You have to have exactly the 23 players for the NHL and 20+ players for the AHL identified and not have any injuries/LTIR beyond the further number you have need of.

And if at 50-contract limit, you cannot add players without getting rid of players, no CHL overagers, inability to sign college players for current season after graduation, etc.

Most GMs do not want to be so restricted.
 

210

Registered User
Mar 5, 2003
12,393
961
Worcester, MA
210sportsblog.com
Difficult with the 50 contract limit. You have to have exactly the 23 players for the NHL and 20+ players for the AHL identified and not have any injuries/LTIR beyond the further number you have need of.

And if at 50-contract limit, you cannot add players without getting rid of players, no CHL overagers, inability to sign college players for current season after graduation, etc.

Most GMs do not want to be so restricted.

Which is why he said "potentially".
 

Nightsquad

Registered User
Jan 25, 2014
834
100
My money is on him being serious...and very, very wrong.

Very wrong? I don't think so, unless you were at the meetings or know someone who was. I know one thing, hope Portland doesn't beat Worcester to an affiliation with the Bruins at the ECHL level. I am rotting for Worcester though to make a good go of it, hope it works out.
 

210

Registered User
Mar 5, 2003
12,393
961
Worcester, MA
210sportsblog.com
Very wrong? I don't think so, unless you were at the meetings or know someone who was. I know one thing, hope Portland doesn't beat Worcester to an affiliation with the Bruins at the ECHL level. I am rotting for Worcester though to make a good go of it, hope it works out.

Why would the AHL make a such a bylaw? All it does is reduce the value of their teams because it limits their locations and/or potential affiliates.
 

Jackets Woodchuck

Registered User
Dec 27, 2010
4,162
291
Difficult with the 50 contract limit. You have to have exactly the 23 players for the NHL and 20+ players for the AHL identified and not have any injuries/LTIR beyond the further number you have need of.

And if at 50-contract limit, you cannot add players without getting rid of players, no CHL overagers, inability to sign college players for current season after graduation, etc.

Most GMs do not want to be so restricted.

Why not just have the NHL team handle the "AHL" deals like the MLB teams do the "minor league" contracts. Is that something that only baseball can do (with independently-owned affiliates) due to their antitrust exemption?
 

Lunatik

Registered User
Oct 12, 2012
56,249
8,384
Why not just have the NHL team handle the "AHL" deals like the MLB teams do the "minor league" contracts. Is that something that only baseball can do (with independently-owned affiliates) due to their antitrust exemption?
When the NHL team owns the AHL team they do this too. The Flames for example even announce signings to AHL contracts on their website. The Flames in recent years have also signed players to ELCs after they played a season under an AHL deal for the Flames affiliates (Garnet Hathaway being the most recent). It is a good way to evaluate a player before signing them to a contract that counts against the limit.
 

wildcat48

Registered User
Jul 16, 2005
4,273
300
Portland, Maine
Tucson City Council is meeting Tuesday night to discuss and vote on a new lease agreement with Ice Arizona AHL (owners of the Coyotes and AHL franchise) to play at the Tucson Convention Center.

Highlights of the Lease:
- Length of the lease is 10 years.
- Team can cancel the lease after five years, but must pay fee in the amount of remaining capital expenses for original renovation cost ($3.2M).
- Team must pay $300,000 per year in rent.
- Team will play 34 homes, but can move five games to another location within Maricopa County.
- Team/Arena split concession revenue 50-50
- Team keeps 100% of static ad revenue during season
- Team/Arena split naming rights revenue 50-50
- Team/Arena split parking revenue 50-50
- Team can not comp more than 500 tickets per game
- Team must attempt to schedule NHL preseason game in '16
- There is an arena surcharge based on cost of ticket
- Rio (Tax District) gets $2 for any sold ticket.
- Tucson (printing charge) gets $0.10 for any sold ticket.
- Depending on face value, the ticket gets a $1 or $2 Facility Use Fee.
- Arena reserves right to add $2 Capital Recovery Charge to the ticket.

Example: If you buy a $16 ticket to an AHL game, your total is $19.10 ($16 ticket; $2 Rio; $.10 Tucson; $1 facility fee). If you buy a $20 ticket to an AHL game, your total is $24.10 ($20 ticket; $2 Rio; $.10 Tucson; $2 facility fee). (H/T to Casual Fan)





Link to Agenda and Lease Docs
 

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