Coyotes buy and move AHL Springfield to Tucson for 2016-17 (UPD: Vote 7-0 in Favor)

[tigervixxxen]

Will be interesting to see how the Tucson team impacts the pacific division. Will they play a full schedule like the Texas teams do or pretty much try to confine their road games to California.

My feeling is that Colorado will wait for expansion and then purchase the expansion AHL affiliate and then locate it where they want with Vegas sliding in to San Antonio.

 

[Speed]

There has been some preliminary discussion within MSG about that possibility. I'm not sure its likely to happen. I think an ECHL franchise is more realistic should the Coyotes purchase the Falcons and move them to Tucson.

Last playoff season when the Pack had a playoff game in Worcester, I believe they did some tire-kicking by meeting with the city leaders here. Obviously nothing came from it, but it does show they've been looking.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

the falcons according to a very reliable source has closed their Twitter account.

 

[offkilter]

Its all over. The Falcons announced the sale via their website and facebook page.

http://falconsahl.com/news/news/?article_id=848

 

[Cyclones Rock]

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/04/springfield_falcons_to_be_sold.html

The average AHL attendance this season was 5,982 per game, a league record. The Falcons averaged just over 3,100, and Pompea said that when no-shows were removed from an actual turnstile count that included advance sales, it was closer to 2,600.

I'm sorry to see another individual owned AHL go. Cincinnati lost the Mighty Ducks over 10 years ago when the cost of operations became too much to keep the team viable for the local ownership.

The cost of operating an AHL has gotten prohibitive. With few exceptions, NHL teams are going to own AHL franchises and absorb the losses as part of their developmental budgets. I don't follow AHL ownership at all, but the number of teams which are NHL owned has had to have increased dramatically over the past 15 years.

 

[Agalloch]

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/04/springfield_falcons_to_be_sold.html





I'm sorry to see another individual owned AHL go. Cincinnati lost the Mighty Ducks over 10 years ago when the cost of operations became too much to keep the team viable for the local ownership.

The cost of operating an AHL has gotten prohibitive. With few exceptions, NHL teams are going to own AHL franchises and absorb the losses as part of their developmental budgets. I don't follow AHL ownership at all, but the number of teams which are NHL owned has had to have increased dramatically over the past 15 years.

By my count, it's 18 out of 30 that is NHL own and there are a others that is part own by NHL teams.

 

[scRIbe]

How would moving closer to Boston "get them out of" the NY vs. Boston battlefield? Generally speaking, there'd be LESS support for a NY team in MA than in CT.

Oh, if only the Whalers could come back. My understanding is the Springfield area tended to have mostly Hartford fans when that city had an NHL team, which made the Indians (and later the Falcons) a fitting AHL partner back in the 90s.

 

[scRIbe]

Chicago will not move IMO.

I could see Colorado buying the Crunch and moving them.

.... or maybe not:



http://www.syracuse.com/crunch/inde..._explore_chance_to_buy_the_new_york_isla.html

I agree on Chicago. The Wolves have been pretty tried-and-true and consistently well-attended ever since they started as an IHL team, and I can't even count how many different affiliations they have had.

Sadly, you may be right on Syracuse as well. Just like Springfield, that's one of the AHL's time-honored cities, but maybe it has run its course at the level.

 

[LadyStanley]

By my count, it's 18 out of 30 that is NHL own and there are a others that is part own by NHL teams.

I count 13 + Arizona/Tuscon.

1. Anaheim/San Diego
2. Buffalo/Rochester
3. Calgary/Stockton
4. Dallas/Texas
5. Edmonton/Bakersfield
6. Los Angeles/Ontario
7. Minnesota/Iowa
8. New Jersey/Albany
9. NY Islanders/Connecticut
10. NY Rangers/Hartford
11. Pittsburgh/WBS
12. San Jose/San Jose
13. Winnipeg/Manitoba

But the trend does seem to be toward NHL parent organization ownership.

 

[Tao Jersey Jones]

Point of correction -- the WPHL team that never took the ice in Tucson (folded one day after the league season started, before ever playing a game in the 2000-01 season, IIRC) was the Scorch. The Gila Monsters were a WCHL team that lasted through the full 1997-98 WCHL season before folding about a third of the way into the 1998-99 WCHL season.

Prescott Valley is TINY compared to Tucson (pop. 42k versus 520k) - the only reason they had a team and arena in the first place was the sales shine job the WPHL/CHL's ownership company did when trying to get municipalities to pay for minor-pro sized arenas. Almost NONE of those markets that got ICC arenas/CHL teams had hockey survive -- usually a combination of poorly capitalized ownership and poor arena management by the WPHL's owning corporation. Where it may be a newer arena, it's in no way shape or form ready for the AHL as a market currently - possibly EVER.

Almost 1m if you include the metro area.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Why? Isn't the Arizona team in limbo of even staying there long term?

 

[Agalloch]

I count 13 + Arizona/Tuscon.

1. Anaheim/San Diego
2. Buffalo/Rochester
3. Calgary/Stockton
4. Dallas/Texas
5. Edmonton/Bakersfield
6. Los Angeles/Ontario
7. Minnesota/Iowa
8. New Jersey/Albany
9. NY Islanders/Connecticut
10. NY Rangers/Hartford
11. Pittsburgh/WBS
12. San Jose/San Jose
13. Winnipeg/Manitoba

But the trend does seem to be toward NHL parent organization ownership.

14. Arizona/Tucson
15. Montreal/St.John's http://hamiltonbulldogs.com/bulldogs-announce-sale-of-ahl-franchise-to-montreal-canadiens-andlauer-purchases-ohls-belleville-bulls
16.Philadelphia/ Lehigh Valley ?
17. Toronto/Toronto
18. Vancouver/Utica

I'm not sure about Philadelphia, but if not, that's 17 out of 30.

Carolina part own Charlotte franchise.

 

[aparch]

I count 13 + Arizona/Tuscon.

1. Anaheim/San Diego
2. Buffalo/Rochester
3. Calgary/Stockton
4. Dallas/Texas
5. Edmonton/Bakersfield
6. Los Angeles/Ontario
7. Minnesota/Iowa
8. New Jersey/Albany
9. NY Islanders/Connecticut
10. NY Rangers/Hartford
11. Pittsburgh/WBS
12. San Jose/San Jose
13. Winnipeg/Manitoba

But the trend does seem to be toward NHL parent organization ownership.

14. Arizona/Tucson
15. Montreal/St.John's http://hamiltonbulldogs.com/bulldogs-announce-sale-of-ahl-franchise-to-montreal-canadiens-andlauer-purchases-ohls-belleville-bulls
16.Philadelphia/ Lehigh Valley ?
17. Toronto/Toronto
18. Vancouver/Utica

I'm not sure about Philadelphia, but if not, that's 17 out of 30.

Carolina part own Charlotte franchise.

No, Lehigh Valley is owned by two brothers who bought the team from the Flyers/Comcast.

The sole owner of Charlotte is a partial investor in the Carolina Hurricanes (one of twenty such investors), but the Hurricanes don't own Charlotte.

By my count, it's now 17 AHL teams that are owned by their NHL club.

 

[aparch]

Chicago will not move IMO.

I could see Colorado buying the Crunch and moving them.
.... or maybe not:
http://www.syracuse.com/crunch/inde..._explore_chance_to_buy_the_new_york_isla.html

I said it was just wild speculation.

 

[Agalloch]

No, Lehigh Valley is owned by two brothers who bought the team from the Flyers/Comcast.

The sole owner of Charlotte is a partial investor in the Carolina Hurricanes (one of twenty such investors), but the Hurricanes don't own Charlotte.

By my count, it's now 17 AHL teams that are owned by their NHL club.

That number will grow each year. I could see it growing to 20 teams soon if there's expansion.

Colorado is most likely the next team going that route.

 

[nickp91]

much respect to Mr. Landon for doing his best to keep the tradition of hockey going in Springfield

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

As I mentioned I could see Vancouver go to Abbotsford and Colorado go to Fresno.

California is becoming fertile ground for new hockey teams at all levels. The seven FBS schools in the state could launch NCAA ice hockey teams in the coming years too.

 

[aparch]

That number will grow each year. I could see it growing to 20 teams soon if there's expansion.

Colorado is most likely the next team going that route.

I do wonder if the AHL and NHL will try to come to an agreement like MLB and MiLB have, where affiliations are locked for two years with just a narrow window occurring every biennial to move/change/extend/etc. affiliate agreements.

 

[MM658]

It might not be all doom and gloom in Springfield, however… There is speculation that another NHL franchise is looking at moving its AHL affiliate to Springfield. I’ve been hearing for a while that it might be NY Rangers looking to move Hartford because of various issues between the various parties and the state of CT. If that falls through, an ECHL franchise is almost a lock for the 2017-18 season.

I think the prevailing theory lately has been that NYI moves the Sound Tigers to Uniondale, and NYR moves the WolfPack to Bridgeport.
There's also supposedly a clause in the NYR/Hartford contract that allows the Rangers to leave if they get a replacement AHL team to assume the lease.

Ultimately, it's a parent-club's market. Too many cities looking for teams, not enough franchises to go around.

I'm hearing lots of people in the Springfield area who insist they won't support an ECHL team. Most of them don't even really know what the league is. They think it's junior hockey, or the Federal League. I know I wouldn't be thrilled with an ECHL team, but it sure beats the hell out of an empty arena.

I think MGM will have a big say in what ultimately happens. They are about to take over a management role at the MM Center. When their casino comes online in 2 years, will they want a hockey team to include in their entertainment portfolio (generating foot traffic downtown, being able to comp tickets, etc.)? Or will they prefer to have those 38 weekend dates available for concerts, MMA, etc? I have no idea, and time will tell.

Trying to dig up information on the sale… I couldn’t find anyone from the executive team. They were there because of an apparent meeting Sunday morning to inform staff of what was going to happen.

My opinion of the recently-departed ownership is very low right now. Daddy's Little Girl was in way over her head trying to run an AHL franchise, and it showed in many ways over the past two and a half years.
In light of wildcat48's comment about a Sunday morning meeting, having the PA announcer sign off after Sunday's game with an enthusiastic "we'll see you next season!" is classless beyond belief.

Back when Bruce Landon was struggling to keep the Falcons afloat, he would often "threaten" that continued poor ticket sales would spell the end of the franchise. At least he was giving some warning. The recently-departed ownership was absentee in nature all season, and no indication was given that the end was imminent, until it was already over. Who knows, perhaps the city or local business community would have been able to do more to make the franchise sustainable. But that clearly wasn't the objective. The objective was to mimic Bob Irsay, and back up the Mayflower trucks in the middle of the night. As long as Daddy's Little Girl has a seat when the music stops, or a golden parachute, that's all that really mattered.

The recently-departed owner had a thing for the "Bird Is the Word" song. Today, I've got a bird for him:

 

[Jackets Woodchuck]

That number will grow each year. I could see it growing to 20 teams soon if there's expansion.

Colorado is most likely the next team going that route.

Why are hockey owners (and really every sport other than baseball) so desperate to own their farm teams even if it costs them a lot of money?

Are baseball owners unique in not feeling that they need to own the entire sport at all levels (i.e "we're the big league, no one else gets to own any teams, at any level, in our sport")?

 

[Avsrule2022]

As I mentioned I could see Vancouver go to Abbotsford and Colorado go to Fresno.

California is becoming fertile ground for new hockey teams at all levels. The seven FBS schools in the state could launch NCAA ice hockey teams in the coming years too.

Fresno is farther away from Colorado than San Antonio by air. No reason for Colorado to own an AHL team that's any farther away than maybe Utah. Or Loveland.

 

[LadyStanley]

Why are hockey owners (and really every sport other than baseball) so desperate to own their farm teams even if it costs them a lot of money?

So they can have full control over the development and coaching of their prospects.

 

[Hoodaha]

Fresno is farther away from Colorado than San Antonio by air. No reason for Colorado to own an AHL team that's any farther away than maybe Utah. Or Loveland.

No reason except to keep AHL costs down because there are 5 other California teams to bus to. The flight times are roughly the same otherwise. Also, road call-ups from Fresno to LA, Anaheim and San Jose would be quick and cheap.

I would expect Vegas to look at Fresno or Long Beach and Colorado to look to expand it's footprint near home either by putting a team in Colorado Springs or considering buying ECHL Loveland (similar to Calgary and Edmonton buying Stockton and Bakersfield's ECHL franchises). Either way, Colorado would need to buy an AHL franchise first, so that's another hurdle...not that it's stopped the Western migration so far. Though you'd have to think it'd become progressively harder to buy a team as the number of independent teams dwindle.

 

[Frank Booth]

The Falcons haven't drawn over an average of 4,000 since 2003. How much more warning do they have to give? I'm sorry for those that are losing their team, but the math doesn't lie. They weren't at the bottom of attendance, they were the bottom. What was the "business community" going to do to save the team that they couldn't have in the last 13 years? And if they did get a reprieve, for how long? The owner, perhaps was "absentee", with a daughter "in way over her head", but it is a business, and it's their money and if they feel that they can do better by selling, well that is their right. whether anyone likes it or not. And I have gone through losing a team, twice. The second time, an absentee owner took the team, and when we got another team, it was supported. But we only got 5 years before the team was moved, nowhere near as long as Springfield. And we have only had 2 playoff seasons in the last 14 (with one season dark), and we support our team well. So the whole "give me a good team and I'll support it" is garbage. There are either enough fans to make it viable, or there are not. Springfield has had much more competitive teams than a lot of places. And that is fact. Once again, sorry to the Falcons' fans that bothered to support the team, but deep down, you have to know that it was inevitable. If you ever get another team, then perhaps it will be different. Or perhaps it won't.

 

[mk80]

Technically the Avalanche could at least make an offer to purchase the Eagles in Loveland. LA had the Ontario Reign sitting their and just waited until the time was right. We know expansion in the NHL is likely to happen soon which means surely AHL expansion wouldn't be far behind, so they could basically purchase the Eagles and bide their time until they had an opportunity to buy an AHL franchise.