Coyotes Arena Situation - Part 2(weeks) - Arena Site Chosen?

[rt]

Wouldn't a public/private financed arena rule out the previously reported location on tribal lands?

Wouldn't a special tax district created by the legislature rule out the ASU site since that location has it's own sports district?

Wouldn't the Coyotes privately financing 50+% of the funding rule out a downtown Phoenix arena (since hypothetically a downtown arena would include funding from the Suns)? And how does this ownership group even have the funds to finance 50+% of an arena?

This was not the info I was expecting to hear, it just raises more questions than answers.

I completely agree. I have no idea what to make of this.

 

[XX]

The worst possible thing that could be announced is some kind of special tax district or mechanism that is solely for funding this thing, assuming it's not on tribal lands. I believe their last idea (bundling a hotel with an arena) already drew ire and potential legal threats in the paper.

Show us the money.

“We have made some significant progress in the last several weeks and we are down to the point where we have selected a site,” LeBlanc told reporters at the team’s NHL Draft headquarters. “We’re not at liberty to disclose the site at this point, but we are moving forward and are actually in the process of trading legal documentation between us and the organizations that we’re working with. We anticipate getting that done over the next several weeks.”

http://coyotes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=887111

We picked a site. As predicted.

 

[SportsRacer21]

They don't, it'd have to be pretty creative. Last time they publicly said anything, they said up to 100m in their own funds. That's not 50% of an arena. And even then, I imagine they're selling 30+ years worth of naming rights to get to that number.

Yeah, that was my thought as well. I do find it interesting that LeBlanc said organizations (plural) in his quote. Also, Sarah McClellan has a new article up with a couple of additional details. http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ntified-new-arena-site-phoenix-area/86337234/

Once the Coyotes finalize a real-estate agreement, they plan to reveal the site, potential partners looking to utilize the arena and what else the facility may feature, with LeBlanc anticipating the announcement coming this summer. The arena will be financed in a "public-private" fashion, LeBlanc said, with more than 50 percent contributed privately by the Coyotes.

"What we are going to be approaching this is with a concept of not looking for taxpayer dollars," he said. "Are we looking for some form of refund of sales tax generated? Perhaps. Those are preliminary discussions we had with the state legislature a couple months ago."

The bolded portions lead me to believe that ASU/Tempe might be the arena locations with ASU's hockey and men's basketball teams playing in the arena. Then the public funding would come from the existing ASU sports district being amended so that the Coyotes could receive some sort of refund for the money they would be contributing towards the arena.

 

[XX]

Are we looking for some form of refund of sales tax generated?

Oh yay, novel financing mechanisms. Because that has worked so well in the past.

 

[Sinurgy]

Well...this is anticlimactic...as usual.

 

[pfp]

Ok, we have selected where we want the arena... now who is going to step up and build it for us?

 

[cobra427]

Oh yay, novel financing mechanisms. Because that has worked so well in the past.

That comment he made at the beginning about organizations(plural) being involved, makes me wonder if their is a 3 way deal with the tribe/ASU/Coyotes. The locations of Hayden/McKellpis, and the 101/202 area are close enough to the ASU campus for it to work?

 

[jmichael7753*]

Gambo and Roc both reporting they have heard from sources that it will be near Karsten.

 

[Howler Scores]

Gambo and Roc both reporting they have heard from sources that it will be near Karsten.

Makes sense, in the video he stated about an Az sales tax reimbursement. On the rez, no state sales tax is collected...

 

[SportsRacer21]

Has the area directly east of Tempe Marketplace been earmarked for development? Google maps streetview shows a sign advertising 50+ acres of mixed use development sites available and it certainly looks like from the map that you could fit an arena+parking in that area.

Just across Salt River from tribal lands and just down the street from ASU campus right off the 101.

Although logistically I'm not sure how a joint venture between a tribe (that owns casinos), a public university (that has big time sports teams) and the Coyotes (who would be getting a sales tax reimbursement) would get any sort of public funding.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

Plot twist: The site picked is in QC

 

[Howler Scores]

Plot twist: The site picked is in QC

Lots of land available in Queen Creek! Lol

 

[mouser]

Makes sense, in the video he stated about an Az sales tax reimbursement. On the rez, no state sales tax is collected...

I believe state sales tax is collected on the reservation so long as the operating business is not native owned.

e.g. There's discussion of state sales taxes being collected at the new auto mall being built by Salt River:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...get-60m-auto-mall-first-tribal-land/76632974/

 

[Howler Scores]

My mistake, yes goods and services are charged taxes to non community members after the Pavillions case decision 20 years. Property taxes and another range of items are charged separately and go directly to Srpmic. Generally the total rate is similar to Scottsdale but an agreement would have to be created with Arizona for some sort of refund. Doesn't seem possible to convince state legislatures and council members to refund back. Also, tax revenue collected on reservation land won't be refunded back to the Coyotes. However bond opportunities backed by the US government are possible as shown by the results of salt river fields.

http://www.srpmic-nsn.gov/government/ordinances/files/SRO-473-2015.pdf

 

[azcanuck]

Glendale clearly has not worked and would never work. I feel for the taxpayer their who really got shafted.
The organization has a chance to compete with more revenue generated. The east valley will IMO support this team. Not like the Hawks or Canadiens but it should be enough to get the organization to actually spend some money.

 

[jmichael7753*]

Glendale clearly has not worked and would never work. I feel for the taxpayer their who really got shafted.
The organization has a chance to compete with more revenue generated. The east valley will IMO support this team. Not like the Hawks or Canadiens but it should be enough to get the organization to actually spend some money.

Attendance will undoubtedly go up with the move to the east valley. However icing a winner on a consistent basis will fill the building on a regular basis.

 

[strizzy16]

Attendance will undoubtedly go up with the move to the east valley. However icing a winner on a consistent basis will fill the building on a regular basis.

What worries me is that even when the team was decently good and had some good recognizable players in the late 90s and in to 2001-02 or so ,we were never even in the top 20 of NHL attendance.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

What worries me is that even when the team was decently good and had some good recognizable players in the late 90s and in to 2001-02 or so ,we were never even in the top 20 of NHL attendance.

Not being able to see half the rink kinda hurts things.

Hockey as a sport in AZ has also grown a lot since then

 

[Howler Scores]

Capacity at AWA was 16,000 and they averaged 13.5-14k a game. Obstructed views accounted for 4,200 of the seats. So the good seats were hard to get and drove up the premium in pricing. Smaller attendance can draw higher revenue in that case.

Thats one bad thing about Gila, most of the seats are lower level and thus, they cost more. When the upper level is selling out and the lowers are half full, you have a price issue to overcome. Not sure what arena has a good mix to compare to.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Thats one bad thing about Gila, most of the seats are lower level and thus, they cost more. When the upper level is selling out and the lowers are half full, you have a price issue to overcome. Not sure what arena has a good mix to compare to.

The upper level very rarely sells out at GRA. Arena location is a bigger problem than price inequity.

 

[Howler Scores]

The upper level very rarely sells out at GRA. Arena location is a bigger problem than price inequity.

For the last two years true. But before that, every Saturday game that I went to people would complain about the uppers being soldout and they either spent the extra 40 on a ticket to sit lower or watched the game at a bar. Some lady went on a full rant outside the ticket office complaining about it. It was funny but I am sure the part-time ticket office lady wanted to do some stabbing.

They have gotten better about offering more price points on lowers, but they could use more work. Every 5-10 rows should have a different price along with the sections.

Gila has 14 season ticket options. Kings have 15, Sharks have 18, and the ducks have 27!

 

[mouser]

Capacity at AWA was 16,000 and they averaged 13.5-14k a game. Obstructed views accounted for 4,200 of the seats. So the good seats were hard to get and drove up the premium in pricing. Smaller attendance can draw higher revenue in that case.

Yup. I'm day 1 season ticket holder going back to 1996. Was there on opening night and attended hundreds of games at AWA. The first few years the full upper level was usually sold out. I deliberately sat up in the upper end one game just to see how bad it was, and words cannot describe how much less fun a hockey game is when you can't see about 25% of the ice surface, including one of the goals.

As folks started to become more familiar with how bad those seats were the team settled into a mostly 13.5-14k attendance that eliminated the majority of the obstructed seats.

 

[Tom Polakis]

What worries me is that even when the team was decently good and had some good recognizable players in the late 90s and in to 2001-02 or so ,we were never even in the top 20 of NHL attendance.

I wouldn't worry about top 20, but getting out of the bottom 2 or 3 would be nice. My bet is that even with an arena in the perfect location, attendance in this market will be in the fourth quartile. That doesn't mean the NHL in Phoenix can't be profitable.

Very few northerners are bellowing for the Stars to be moved, but the Dallas market is similar in many respects to Phoenix. If the Coyotes were competitive and management was not so full of incompetence, I think we'd see something like Dallas. Not great, but survivable.

 

[Tom Polakis]

Yup. I'm day 1 season ticket holder going back to 1996. Was there on opening night and attended hundreds of games at AWA. The first few years the full upper level was usually sold out. I deliberately sat up in the upper end one game just to see how bad it was, and words cannot describe how much less fun a hockey game is when you can't see about 25% of the ice surface, including one of the goals.

As folks started to become more familiar with how bad those seats were the team settled into a mostly 13.5-14k attendance that eliminated the majority of the obstructed seats.

During the team's first playoff game ever against the Ducks, I got stuck up there with the only tickets available. To see anything inside the near blue line required you to look up screens that were smaller than what many people have up in their living rooms these days. Never sat up there again.

 

[azcanuck]

Yup. I'm day 1 season ticket holder going back to 1996. Was there on opening night and attended hundreds of games at AWA. The first few years the full upper level was usually sold out. I deliberately sat up in the upper end one game just to see how bad it was, and words cannot describe how much less fun a hockey game is when you can't see about 25% of the ice surface, including one of the goals.

As folks started to become more familiar with how bad those seats were the team settled into a mostly 13.5-14k attendance that eliminated the majority of the obstructed seats.

Those first few years at AWA were golden years for hockey here. In a site obstructed arena the team did very well. Most importantly the team had a real vibe in the valley. They were talked on the radio. Their was real enthusiasm. I went to a ton of games and really enjoyed it.
Management clearly wanted a winner. Unlike the lip service this management gives us they went out and got players. If guys like Roenick and Tkachuck were actual leaders we could have gone somewhere.
But a new arena means a new start and more revenue so maybe this group can get it right. God knows this franchise has seen dark times for a long time.