Coyotes Arena Situation - Part 2(weeks) - Arena Site Chosen?

[SniperHF]

Guess we'll open another part for now.

Click to read more...

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

Still no answer to the future of the team and our fanbase is even more divided and hateful towards each other than ever before. A good owner doesn't have a divided fanbase.

 

[doaner]

We're just a small sample if you're referring to this online forum.

 

[SniperHF]

I don't even think there are enough of us to actually qualify as a statistically relevant sample

 

[Summer Rose]

I'm just so numb to the whole situation by now. The Coyotes are going to what they're going to do. What the **** ever by now, yeah?

 

[Jakey53]

Still no answer to the future of the team and our fanbase is even more divided and hateful towards each other than ever before. A good owner doesn't have a divided fanbase.

You should go and read other teams forums. Every organization has a divided fan base. At the moment the Ducks, who are very well run by the way, are getting roasted for hiring Carlye. Chill out, this team is not going anywhere.

 

[AZviaNJ]

You should go and read other teams forums. Every organization has a divided fan base. At the moment the Ducks, who are very well run by the way, are getting roasted for hiring Carlye. Chill out, this team is not going anywhere.

if the 24th comes and goes without some type of news, then I can see some fan frustration. Why don't we just wait til the 24th.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

I don't even think there are enough of us to actually qualify as a statistically relevant sample

We're not the largest fanbase in the league but there's plenty of Coyotes fans and certainly more than what others will give us credit for.
And we're more real than what we have seen in many of the larger fanbases and that includes Pittsburgh, Chicago, LA, Detroit.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

if the 24th comes and goes without some type of news, then I can see some fan frustration. Why don't we just wait til the 24th.

Uh because we were told we would have some news not that long ago and we didn't get anything significant.

 

[BUX7PHX]

If people use the "writing on the wall" thought, then I don't think that we would be moving either.

Paying to move the AHL affiliate to Tucson would not appear to be something that an ownership group would commit to without a vote of confidence that the team would be here for at least another 5-10 years. I could be 100% wrong on that, too, as the AHL team could move to the Valley should operations fold or get moved.

If the NHL team were re-locating, the move of the AHL affiliate to Tucson for the short term would be interesting, b/c it would be in the best interest of re-location to happen on the west coast or at least to the west of the Rocky Mountains. Las Vegas is getting an expansion team. That really only leaves Portland or Seattle as the most logical destinations to take advantage of this move. We know that Seattle doesn't have the arena yet, same as here. Does the NHL want to risk re-location from a top 10-15 television market to one well below that in Portland?

 

[doaner]

We're not the largest fanbase in the league but there's plenty of Coyotes fans and certainly more than what others will give us credit for.
And we're more real than what we have seen in many of the larger fanbases and that includes Pittsburgh, Chicago, LA, Detroit.

I think snipe is just referring to this forum. I've yet to meet a yotes fan outside of this board that is so pessimistic all the time like many in here. The typical fan would not be represented appropriately from the boar .

 

[doaner]

If people use the "writing on the wall" thought, then I don't think that we would be moving either.

Paying to move the AHL affiliate to Tucson would not appear to be something that an ownership group would commit to without a vote of confidence that the team would be here for at least another 5-10 years. I could be 100% wrong on that, too, as the AHL team could move to the Valley should operations fold or get moved.

If the NHL team were re-locating, the move of the AHL affiliate to Tucson for the short term would be interesting, b/c it would be in the best interest of re-location to happen on the west coast or at least to the west of the Rocky Mountains. Las Vegas is getting an expansion team. That really only leaves Portland or Seattle as the most logical destinations to take advantage of this move. We know that Seattle doesn't have the arena yet, same as here. Does the NHL want to risk re-location from a top 10-15 television market to one well below that in Portland?

I read an article somewhere that really makes me think relocation is completely off the table. With LV coming, that puts 15 teams out west and 16 out east. This was part of the reason QC was denied a team (crappy Canadian dollar too). Unless a team east moves west, I don't see us moving anywhere.

 

[rt]

It would help if the ownership group would stop failing to meet every single arbitrary deadline that they themselves have offered. Just shut up. If they would have just shut up about this two weeks, two weeks, two weeks crap, and said they were confident it would get done in due time, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them as snake oil salesmen and charlatons. Under promise, over deliver. How do you get to be a multi millionaire without learning that basic concept?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

You should go and read other teams forums. Every organization has a divided fan base.

Vegas doesn't.

Does the NHL want to risk re-location from a top 10-15 television market to one well below that in Portland?

Considering how low our ratings are and how far down on the national list our market is, I think that's a secondary concern.

Unless a team east moves west, I don't see us moving anywhere.

There are always soft-landing spots for the NHL. Kansas City could be termed "west" given the makeup of the league, for instance.

The big question mark is our ownership, and that's what has us most divided around here. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground in opinion.

I think an actual, substantive announcement on or around June 24 about the future of this club will go a long way toward convincing me that IceArizona doesn't have an ulterior motive lurking in the wings. Not just another, "Talks are very progressed!" statement, but one with a significant and solid step forward - an announcement of an actual location, a target date for shovels in the ground, an artist's render of the new barn... SOMETHING. Then I'll break out the Stauffer's Frozen Crow and Veggies microwave plate and get it warmed up.

 

[Jakey53]

if the 24th comes and goes without some type of news, then I can see some fan frustration. Why don't we just wait til the 24th.

These things take time. We are talking about 500 mil here, not some $40,000 car.

Once again, what proof do you have to back this statement. If you can't back this statement up then don't say this until you can.

And vice versa.

 

[Jakey53]

It would help if the ownership group would stop failing to meet every single arbitrary deadline that they themselves have offered. Just shut up. If they would have just shut up about this two weeks, two weeks, two weeks crap, and said they were confident it would get done in due time, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them as snake oil salesmen and charlatons. Under promise, over deliver. How do you get to be a multi millionaire without learning that basic concept?

I agree, but if they didn't say anything it would make things worse. If they said "due time", posters like you, xx and a few others would be up all night posting why nothing is happening, why there is no news, when are they going to move, etc.

 

[Ebb]

I gave up on ownership date-predictions long ago. Although nothing is publicly happening, I'm sure they are working on things.

I figure most of the AHL stuff (name/coaching staff) will be resolved by the 18th.

Draft Day may be a point for additional announcements, but I doubt the arena thing will be resolved by then (I guess I just figure it will happen in due time so if it gets done earlier than anticipated, I'm happier).

My guess is that they are still looking at the location that will cost them the least amount of money (of course I wish they'd be willing to pony up more of their own money rather than "public" funds) in the long run (but not "force" them to make along-term commitment). In the end, hockey is a business, so ownership will be looking for the least amount of financial investment and most likely a shorter time-commitment (say 5 years).

Around UFA day (July 1st), there may be an announcement related to the future arena location, but I still wouldn't be surprised if it's not formalized until perhaps the start of next season. I just hope they don't continue to play the "we'll know more in 2-3 weeks" card. I agree with RT on this, quit making date-specific announcements unless you are at least 95% sure they will actually happen.

 

[Ebb]

I agree, but if they didn't say anything it would make things worse. If they said "due time", posters like you, xx and a few others would be up all night posting why nothing is happening, why there is no news, when are they going to move, etc.

Softer deadlines would be nice. Something like "hopefully by the beginning of next season we will have more public announcements concerning the new arena location we are considering." That way, if it is resolved earlier, most will be quite content.

 

[Coyotes2000]

I think snipe is just referring to this forum. I've yet to meet a yotes fan outside of this board that is so pessimistic all the time like many in here. The typical fan would not be represented appropriately from the boar .

This, HF's Coyotes forum is not indicative of the general sentiment of most fans. Everything the Coyotes have done so far this off season has been met pretty positively. Giving TP an extension is the only thing i've been hearing as an eye brow raiser at best.

 

[GiveAFlyingPuck]

It would help if the ownership group would stop failing to meet every single arbitrary deadline that they themselves have offered. Just shut up. If they would have just shut up about this two weeks, two weeks, two weeks crap, and said they were confident it would get done in due time, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them as snake oil salesmen and charlatons. Under promise, over deliver. How do you get to be a multi millionaire without learning that basic concept?

Or at least watch a Star Trek episode. Scotty knew the deal.

Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: Yeah, well, I told the Captain I'd have this analysis done in an hour.
Scotty: How long will it really take?
Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: An hour!
Scotty: Oh, you didn't tell him how long it would *really* take, did ya?
Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: Well, of course I did.
Scotty: Oh, laddie. You've got a lot to learn if you want people to think of you as a miracle worker.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Softer deadlines would be nice. Something like "hopefully by the beginning of next season we will have more public announcements concerning the new arena location we are considering." That way, if it is resolved earlier, most will be quite content.

If that's all they're going to say, I don't want them to say anything at all. That's not a deadline, that's a deflection.

 

[cobra427]

Once again, what proof do you have to back this statement. If you can't back this statement up then don't say this until you can.

500 million expansion fee versus no expansion fee if the Coyotes move, all the proof needed.

 

[TheLegend]

Vegas doesn't.
.

Wait until after their expansion draft.

 

[_Del_]

Not sure how anyone can say with confidence that they are staying while watching the series of "2 weeks" soft deadlines go by. It's just words.

Peddling the idea that they were in a position to close out a deal for an arena within 2 weeks is/was insulting.

If they didnt have a history of selling bologna repeatedly, I'd feel a lot better about it.

I do think they want to stay, but they need a partner. Even if they get a new arena plan, they need to find an interim home. And deals for that arent going to get any sweeter as they get closer to next year's need.

Everytime a couple of weeks pass quietly, I find myself thinking we're going to be reassuringly two-weeked into a sudden relo.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Everytime a couple of weeks pass quietly, I find myself thinking we're going to be reassuringly two-weeked into a sudden relo.

Well, it's certain that they've maneuvered themselves into a situation of plausible deniability; they now have the perfect excuse if they are going to relocate or flip the franchise. To wit:

• They are "kicked out" of Glendale. Although the only actual thing that has happened is that Glendale voided the original lease and have partnered with AEG to manage Gila River Arena, IceArizona has warped this story into one that alleges that Glendale actively does not want the hockey team to remain (which has been publicly and repeatedly rebutted by the city). To hear IceArizona tell it, there is no possible way the team can stay in Glendale after the deal runs out next summer, notwithstanding the fact that they have not even attempted to speak with the city about conflict resolution or mending fences.
• They spent months trying to work out a new deal with another Phoenix city. IceArizona has a paper trail that they can point to that indicates they have tried hard to find a new deal with a new city and arena in the Phoenix metro area, thanks to the many news stories and releases they have issued. The fact that these "negotiations" have turned out to be rather egregiously one-sided or overstated in progression seems not to matter, so long as it appears that IA has plenty of irons in the fire.
• After much angst and effort, a deal could not be struck. IA continues to say publicly that they have had good negotiations and talks with Phoenix and Tempe (although the tribe in Scottsdale has rather noticeably fallen off the map as of late). Similar sentiments from the other parties are not forthcoming. In fact, at one point one of the cities (I believe it was Phoenix but I can't remember for sure) said that IA refused to show them their financials, which contraindicates the level of dialogue IA claims to be having with them. Trial balloons for special taxing districts have been shot down by a metro area feeling burnt over by public monies for sports properties. It seems clear that a deal favorable to the Coyotes is a long shot.
• The only remaining option is to leave. "We tried our best, and we can prove it!" That's the message that will be left fluttering in the wind when the moving vans roll out of town.

Now, is this a bit tinfoil-hat? Of course it is. It points to a conspiracy that logistically would be at the very least arcane and resource-consuming, a Rube Goldberg approach to a problem that could be solved by simply pulling up stakes and leaving abruptly. It would have to presuppose that IA care enough about their image as businessmen to need to have that plausible deniability in their pocket so they can say they expended every effort to keep the team in Arizona.

It also doesn't account for the investments in grassroots hockey and the rapidity and ease with which they have established the Roadrunners in Tucson this spring. Those efforts seem clearly at odds with the idea that the owners are heavily-leveraged puppets for the NHL, or that Andy Barroway is playing the long con to flip the team as an investment move as was rumored when he first bought in. The scenario described above would be far more plausible had Gary Drummond not taken an unexpected commanding interest in the ownership group - he seems to have single-handedly turned all of the standard narratives about IceArizona on their ear.

The long and short of it is that this is a story with a lot of moving parts, many of which defy easy generalization on one side or the other. Everything about the ownership group is shrouded in some sort of impenetrable gauze that is difficult to see through. There isn't enough stability for the skeptical to be satisfied, but there isn't enough instability to shake the faithful into believing they're finally going to lose the team.

One thing is for sure - it's not just at HF where these questions are being raised. I spent a lot of time last season talking about these issues with other STH and the uncertainty remains a very heavy weight, no matter what platitudes Anthony Leblanc issues through a reporter's microphone. Everything is still up in the air and we don't yet know where it will land.