Coyotes Arena Situation - Part 2(weeks) - Arena Site Chosen?

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cobra427

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May 6, 2012
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Well, it's certain that they've maneuvered themselves into a situation of plausible deniability; they now have the perfect excuse if they are going to relocate or flip the franchise. To wit:

  • They are "kicked out" of Glendale. Although the only actual thing that has happened is that Glendale voided the original lease and have partnered with AEG to manage Gila River Arena, IceArizona has warped this story into one that alleges that Glendale actively does not want the hockey team to remain (which has been publicly and repeatedly rebutted by the city). To hear IceArizona tell it, there is no possible way the team can stay in Glendale after the deal runs out next summer, notwithstanding the fact that they have not even attempted to speak with the city about conflict resolution or mending fences.
  • They spent months trying to work out a new deal with another Phoenix city. IceArizona has a paper trail that they can point to that indicates they have tried hard to find a new deal with a new city and arena in the Phoenix metro area, thanks to the many news stories and releases they have issued. The fact that these "negotiations" have turned out to be rather egregiously one-sided or overstated in progression seems not to matter, so long as it appears that IA has plenty of irons in the fire.
  • After much angst and effort, a deal could not be struck. IA continues to say publicly that they have had good negotiations and talks with Phoenix and Tempe (although the tribe in Scottsdale has rather noticeably fallen off the map as of late). Similar sentiments from the other parties are not forthcoming. In fact, at one point one of the cities (I believe it was Phoenix but I can't remember for sure) said that IA refused to show them their financials, which contraindicates the level of dialogue IA claims to be having with them. Trial balloons for special taxing districts have been shot down by a metro area feeling burnt over by public monies for sports properties. It seems clear that a deal favorable to the Coyotes is a long shot.
  • The only remaining option is to leave. "We tried our best, and we can prove it!" That's the message that will be left fluttering in the wind when the moving vans roll out of town.

Now, is this a bit tinfoil-hat? Of course it is. It points to a conspiracy that logistically would be at the very least arcane and resource-consuming, a Rube Goldberg approach to a problem that could be solved by simply pulling up stakes and leaving abruptly. It would have to presuppose that IA care enough about their image as businessmen to need to have that plausible deniability in their pocket so they can say they expended every effort to keep the team in Arizona.

It also doesn't account for the investments in grassroots hockey and the rapidity and ease with which they have established the Roadrunners in Tucson this spring. Those efforts seem clearly at odds with the idea that the owners are heavily-leveraged puppets for the NHL, or that Andy Barroway is playing the long con to flip the team as an investment move as was rumored when he first bought in. The scenario described above would be far more plausible had Gary Drummond not taken an unexpected commanding interest in the ownership group - he seems to have single-handedly turned all of the standard narratives about IceArizona on their ear.

The long and short of it is that this is a story with a lot of moving parts, many of which defy easy generalization on one side or the other. Everything about the ownership group is shrouded in some sort of impenetrable gauze that is difficult to see through. There isn't enough stability for the skeptical to be satisfied, but there isn't enough instability to shake the faithful into believing they're finally going to lose the team.

One thing is for sure - it's not just at HF where these questions are being raised. I spent a lot of time last season talking about these issues with other STH and the uncertainty remains a very heavy weight, no matter what platitudes Anthony Leblanc issues through a reporter's microphone. Everything is still up in the air and we don't yet know where it will land.

Even if the Coyotes announce an agreement in principle with ASU/Phoenix/Tribe, nobody will believe it. Once they get the project financed and start digging, people will believe it then. That is another 6-12 months. Until they start digging, any announcements will carry doubt, so the uncertainty is not going away any time soon.
 

SniperHF

Rejecting Reports
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That is another 6-12 months. Until they start digging, any announcements will carry doubt, so the uncertainty is not going away any time soon.

I'm not all that concerned about when they get the final deal worked out. I'm looking at 2017-18 and saying, where are you playing that year?
 

XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
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I'm a little surprised the league seems to be okay with a lame duck season. I suppose that with a little financial prodding by the NHL, IA could always go groveling back to Glendale for another short deal. Kicking the can down the road with no resolution is a good bet usually.

Wouldn't at all be surprised to find out I need to learn french in the next week or two.
 

ClassLessCoyote

Staying classy
Jun 10, 2009
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This, HF's Coyotes forum is not indicative of the general sentiment of most fans. Everything the Coyotes have done so far this off season has been met pretty positively. Giving TP an extension is the only thing i've been hearing as an eye brow raiser at best.

I wasn't talking to you and you're incorrect once again. I did my own sophisticated take on the thoughts of Coyotes fans that goes beyond 1 site and the internet and the truth is most Coyotes fans aren't happy with the events that took place in recent time by the ownership.

And vice versa.

In other words, no you don't and stop wasting our time with claims that you can't back up. I do a good job at backing up what I said and I never said the Coyotes are going to relocate from the recent events. Putting words down my throat doesn't help your argument either.
 

ClassLessCoyote

Staying classy
Jun 10, 2009
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I'm a little surprised the league seems to be okay with a lame duck season. I suppose that with a little financial prodding by the NHL, IA could always go groveling back to Glendale for another short deal. Kicking the can down the road with no resolution is a good bet usually.

Wouldn't at all be surprised to find out I need to learn french in the next week or two.

Unless the news we want to hear is good in the next 2 weeks(hopefully not bad) we won't know for sure if this is a lame duck season until the end of next season unless there's a cat in the bag to be let out.
 

ClassLessCoyote

Staying classy
Jun 10, 2009
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500 million expansion fee versus no expansion fee if the Coyotes move, all the proof needed.

Yea because the current speculated non-official news of an expansion team to Las Vegas and expansion costs = actual arena deal by the Coyotes today. :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

Hell, our owners even have the shovels in the ground as we speak. :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
 

The Feckless Puck

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Even if the Coyotes announce an agreement in principle with ASU/Phoenix/Tribe, nobody will believe it.

Guess I should change my forum name to "nobody," because I'd believe it. It'd be a damn sight farther down the road than any other public pronouncement they've made on the topic.

"We have agreed in principle to an arena deal at the Karsten Golf Course area of ASU's campus." Right on!

"We continue to have very progressed talks with ASU about an arena deal around the Karsten Golf Course area of ASU's campus." Aaaaargh! :D

Wouldn't at all be surprised to find out I need to learn french in the next week or two.

I would be. Of all the possible endgames for the Coyotes, I would put relocation to Quebec City at the very bottom of the probability list.
 

Ebb

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Dec 22, 2015
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I would be. Of all the possible endgames for the Coyotes, I would put relocation to Quebec City at the very bottom of the probability list.

If relocated, I'd guess:
  1. Portland
  2. Kansas City
  3. Houston
  4. Quebec
  5. Seattle
  6. Toronto/Hamilton

But, I'm hoping for the best and that no relocation will happen for at least the next five years or so.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
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If relocated, I'd guess:
  1. Portland
  2. Kansas City
  3. Houston
  4. Quebec
  5. Seattle
  6. Toronto/Hamilton

But, I'm hoping for the best and that no relocation will happen for at least the next five years or so.

Again, this team is not moving. Even if they do, it is beyond our control, so why waste time and energy worrying about it. Life will go on.
 

AZviaNJ

“Sure as shit want to F*** Coyote fans.”
Mar 31, 2011
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Again, this team is not moving. Even if they do, it is beyond our control, so why waste time and energy worrying about it. Life will go on.
Exactly. Too many good hockey-related things in this market to move.

I will bet anyone on this board $1,000 the Coyotes will be in Arizona for at least the next 5 years.
 

Jakey53

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Aug 27, 2011
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I'm a little surprised the league seems to be okay with a lame duck season. I suppose that with a little financial prodding by the NHL, IA could always go groveling back to Glendale for another short deal. Kicking the can down the road with no resolution is a good bet usually.

Wouldn't at all be surprised to find out I need to learn french in the next week or two.

Maybe they don't view it as a lame duck season.

[MOD]
 
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XX

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Dec 10, 2002
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Of all the possible endgames for the Coyotes, I would put relocation to Quebec City at the very bottom of the probability list.

That would be foolish, considering they would provide a great deal of revenue and fan excitement to the league but the drop in the Canadian dollar makes it unlikely they'll ever pony up for expansion. Plus, you know, that gorgeous new arena and their ability to literally take a team overnight.

Winnipeg wasn't really ideally desirable... up until the point the league was faced with the prospect of no home for a team.
 

cobra427

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May 6, 2012
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Guess I should change my forum name to "nobody," because I'd believe it. It'd be a damn sight farther down the road than any other public pronouncement they've made on the topic.

"We have agreed in principle to an arena deal at the Karsten Golf Course area of ASU's campus." Right on!

"We continue to have very progressed talks with ASU about an arena deal around the Karsten Golf Course area of ASU's campus." Aaaaargh! :D



I would be. Of all the possible endgames for the Coyotes, I would put relocation to Quebec City at the very bottom of the probability list.

I should have said "many" won't believe it and point out how the city could back out, they don't have financing, IA doesn't have the money, etc....The 500 mill the NHL teams will receive for Vegas and another 500 mill+ franchise fee in the next year or two will keep the Coyotes here.
 

The Feckless Puck

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That would be foolish, considering they would provide a great deal of revenue and fan excitement to the league but the drop in the Canadian dollar makes it unlikely they'll ever pony up for expansion. Plus, you know, that gorgeous new arena and their ability to literally take a team overnight.

Oh, don't get me wrong - I think Quebec City is going to end up with a team sooner rather than later, one way or another. What I don't believe is that the NHL is going to want to move the Coyotes out of the west to an eastern city. I don't buy the theories QC fans have about the Nords playing in the Western Conference as a concession in exchange for a team.

No, if the Coyotes move, I'm guessing the league is going to be looking at Seattle first (Key Arena if necessary) and then places like Kansas City or Houston (only if they can work some magic with the current arena operator, though). Maybe even Milwaukee, since the new barn will have NHL ice capability.

The league has plenty of soft landing options if the Coyotes have to move; they won't have to destabilize the conference balance as a result.

I should have said "many" won't believe it and point out how the city could back out, they don't have financing, IA doesn't have the money, etc....The 500 mill the NHL teams will receive for Vegas and another 500 mill+ franchise fee in the next year or two will keep the Coyotes here.

The expansion fee(s) won't do squat for the team if they don't get a new arena deal. That's why I think it's imperative that this latest deadline doesn't pass without a real, substantive announcement about the future.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
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I'm not all that concerned about when they get the final deal worked out. I'm looking at 2017-18 and saying, where are you playing that year?

Glendale. The longer they can keep the Coyotes the better for the new arena manager.
 

nickk382

Registered User
Jun 11, 2011
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Scottsdale, Arizona
I can see the new arena being on the southeast corner of McClintock and McKellips. It makes absolute perfect sense.

sgijxk.png
 

The Feckless Puck

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I dont see why the Res would put it there and not at talking stick.

They wouldn't. Absolutely no point in doing a new facility away from the one they already have for the casino and spring training, where they already have infrastructure in place.
 

nickk382

Registered User
Jun 11, 2011
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Scottsdale, Arizona
Guys, this location makes perfect sense. Think about it, the Coyotes want to do a partnership with ASU hockey, which is INSANELY blowing up in talent and they are desperate in having their own real arena to play in. This is right across the street from Oceanside where ASU currently plays at. This is right down the street from Arizona State, Tempe Market Place is right across the highway, which I'm sure they will build a great access way to and from the arena. Plus, this is pretty much the center point of the valley where the majority of people who have money and love hockey live. Scottsdale north, Paradise Valley northwest, Fountain Hills northeast, Tempe south/southwest, Chandler southwest, Gilbert southeast, and we can obviously forget about 80% of Mesa.

Am I right or am I right?
 
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