Coyotes Arena Discussion (Crowdsourced real estate detective work)

[Bonsai Tree]

So if Sarver puts his considerable weight behind this bill he will be helping the Coyotes as well as himself. This was well crafted in order to help both the DBacks and Suns as well as the Yotes.

I suspect that the State was rather unhappy about how much of Talking Stick's revenues was going to the Indian nation rather than the State.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

So if Sarver puts his considerable weight behind this bill he will be helping the Coyotes as well as himself. This was well crafted in order to help both the DBacks and Suns as well as the Yotes.

I think in theory that might be true, but in practice I doubt Sarver is going to make any moves yet. I'm convinced he'll move to benefit from it if it passes, but he certainly doesn't NEED to attach himself to this - and if it ends up generating a stink with taxpayers and get caught up in watchdog groups and so forth, the more distance he can put between it and himself, the better.

 

[Jakey53]

If the Coyotes-related bills pass, it'll be a lot easier for Sarver to get his public money.

Exactly. And if it doesn't, wouldn't a legal precedent be set?

 

[_Del_]

No. Only if it gets adjudicated would any precedent be set. That could well happen, too.

 

[Murf]

5th St and Buchanan.

 

[Lilhoody]

5th St and Buchanan.

That would be sweet.

 

[Howler Scores]

Phoenix moves one step closer to bringing Arizona Coyotes downtown

City council-members approved $75,000 for Barrett Sports Group to evaluate Talking Stick Resort Arena in downtown Phoenix and determine what it would look like to host a hockey team there.

http://ktar.com/story/1467563/phoenix-moves-one-step-closer-to-bringing-arizona-coyotes-downtown/

 

[moosemeister]

Phoenix moves one step closer to bringing Arizona Coyotes downtown



http://ktar.com/story/1467563/phoenix-moves-one-step-closer-to-bringing-arizona-coyotes-downtown/

Oh nooooooooo.

 

[MIGs Dog]

...determine what it would look like to host a hockey team there.

I'll do the study for half that, since we already know what it would look like.

 

[rt]

Phoenix moves one step closer to bringing Arizona Coyotes downtown



http://ktar.com/story/1467563/phoenix-moves-one-step-closer-to-bringing-arizona-coyotes-downtown/

"No." Pay me my 75k

 

[moosemeister]

In all seriousness. Talking stick sits about 18000. How many seats are obstructed? Is this number close to the 16000 that the Tempe stadium was supposed to have? Or is it even less?

 

[MIGs Dog]

In all seriousness. Talking stick sits about 18000. How many seats are obstructed? Is this number close to the 16000 that the Tempe stadium was supposed to have? Or is it even less?

This is true. Why the heck move to Glendale in the first place?

listed capacity was 18,000 seats, unobstructed 16,210. Should be sufficient until we win the Cup and everyone jumps on the bandwagon.

avg attendance

 

[SniperHF]

Revenue pie slices. The original agreement was untenable.

Probably why (among other reasons) moving back is a bad idea. Though it might compare a lot more favorably vs subsidy-less Glendale than the subsidy version.


I was always of the opinion that the obstructed seat complaints were overblown. They were mostly in the same sections in GRA that have great sight lines for the money and still no one buys. Mainly a status thing and not the big ticket.

 

[_Del_]

With our numbers, I'm not sure you would have to sell the obstructed view seats any way. Tarp over those sections for NHL games. But I agree, it was completely overblown. You might have bought tickets there once and then said, "not again", but you're talking about a small number of purchased tickets in a small area of the arena.
Or give those tickets away for free at elementary schools and such in batches of four. Those people are extra heads going to buy concessions and might turn into future purchasing customers if you entertained them.

 

[diceone]

With our numbers, I'm not sure you would have to sell the obstructed view seats any way. Tarp over those sections for NHL games. But I agree, it was completely overblown. You might have bought tickets there once and then said, "not again", but you're talking about a small number of purchased tickets in a small area of the arena.
Or give those tickets away for free at elementary schools and such in batches of four. Those people are extra heads going to buy concessions and might turn into future purchasing customers if you entertained them.

This is a great idea. I was a kid when I was going to the games in '96-02 at AWA (elementary school through high school) and I could only afford the obstructed view seats. I loved it anyways. It was all about the atmosphere and they had the TVs there anyways.

They'd need to upgrade the arena a bit more though - I've been going to more Suns games the past few years and it's DEFINITELY not as nice as Gila River. The concourses are small and dark.

 

[Matias Maccete]

What if the Suns get a new arena and the yotes take over talking stick? Old arena, but they'd get all the revenue this time around.

 

[Summer Rose]

With our numbers, I'm not sure you would have to sell the obstructed view seats any way. Tarp over those sections for NHL games. But I agree, it was completely overblown. You might have bought tickets there once and then said, "not again", but you're talking about a small number of purchased tickets in a small area of the arena.
Or give those tickets away for free at elementary schools and such in batches of four. Those people are extra heads going to buy concessions and might turn into future purchasing customers if you entertained them.

Pretty much. They were $9 a game back in that day; after buying a seat in that section once I splurged for a $12 ticket in the other, non-obstructed corner the next game I went to.

I was like 16 at the time, $12 vs. $9 was stashing an extra day's worth of lunch money for me back then

If they move back to TSRA and I move back to the valley as planned, it'll actually make the cost of attending the game a lot lower being on the light rail. Valley Metro might extend the "your ticket to the TSRA event is your light rail fare" to Coyotes games and save me a further four bucks, even.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

With our numbers, I'm not sure you would have to sell the obstructed view seats any way. Tarp over those sections for NHL games. But I agree, it was completely overblown. You might have bought tickets there once and then said, "not again", but you're talking about a small number of purchased tickets in a small area of the arena.
Or give those tickets away for free at elementary schools and such in batches of four. Those people are extra heads going to buy concessions and might turn into future purchasing customers if you entertained them.

Yeah have regular 15kish sellouts, create a fun atmosphere that will keep people coming when the team moves to a newer, bigger arena. Have to think moving downtown would increase avg attendance by at least 750 a game.

And great idea giving obstructed view seats to kids. They're short so their view would obstructed anyway.

 

[Jakey53]

What if the Suns get a new arena and the yotes take over talking stick? Old arena, but they'd get all the revenue this time around.

It will cost millions to upgrade that facility to NHL standards. Even if they do that, how are they going to split revenue the next 7 or so years until the Suns get their new facility?

 

[Matias Maccete]

It will cost millions to upgrade that facility to NHL standards. Even if they do that, how are they going to split revenue the next 7 or so years until the Suns get their new facility?

Is it that long for the Suns? I thought they could argue that the arena is obsolete soon? I don't follow the Suns at all so I'm probably mistaken.

 

[TheLegend]

Is it that long for the Suns? I thought they could argue that the arena is obsolete soon? I don't follow the Suns at all so I'm probably mistaken.

Can't remember the exact year but it's within the next 3-5 years.

They can (and probably will) ask for an arbitrator to determine if TSRA is no longer up to standards. Phoenix needed to do this anyway because it's going to have to be done regardless of what the Coyotes do. But it will give Phoenix a heads up on how to approach that arbitration with the Suns.

Yeah have regular 15kish sellouts, create a fun atmosphere that will keep people coming when the team moves to a newer, bigger arena. Have to think moving downtown would increase avg attendance by at least 750 a game.

And great idea giving obstructed view seats to kids. They're short so their view would obstructed anyway.

The league (ie Bettman) has already told the Coyotes that they need at least 16,200 capacity.

 

[moosemeister]

The league (ie Bettman) has already told the Coyotes that they need at least 16,200 capacity.

So if for some reason this works out, TSA will work perfectly fine for the time being, no?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

It will cost millions to upgrade that facility to NHL standards.

Far fewer millions than it would take to build a new arena. And far less expensive than turning Veterans Memorial Coliseum into anything resembling an acceptable venue for pro sports again.

Having said that, the best future for Talking Stick Resort Arena is either being torn down outright or repurposed into a mall or something. Whoever designed it got it wrong from the start. It's cramped, it's got terrible ambiance, and the sooner it gets replaced, the better, IMO. I don't blame Sarver one bit for wanting a new barn, and I think the Coyotes would be crazy to even consider taking it as a hand-me-down.

 

[XX]

Is it that long for the Suns? I thought they could argue that the arena is obsolete soon? I don't follow the Suns at all so I'm probably mistaken.

Mouser can give you the exact date but they don't start the new arena process officially per the lease until 2021ish. It could always start sooner but the Coyotes still don't have a way into that building if it happens and they're not going to survive off of a revenue split. Did everyone miss the backdoor subsidy they're asking for in the bill?

This doesn't change or solve anything. TSA won't be profitable for the Coyotes. The Coyotes don't have enough money of their own to get a new arena. Phoenix is not going to have two big arenas next to each other. The Suns are not any more inclined to share a new facility etc.. etc...

This is one councilman covering their ass should the team ultimately end up moving.

 

[Matias Maccete]

Bah, well that sucks.