Coyotes Arena Discussion (Crowdsourced real estate detective work)

[SniperHF]

Where is the proposed location for this arena suggestion/plan?

I think it's location agnostic.

 

[CC96]

I think it's location agnostic.

So, I take it that the deal, if passed, would be funded by the state as a whole as opposed to any local municipality?

Edit: I need to learn how to read. It's right in the tweet.

 

[TheLegend]

Come on. That's just as disingenuous as your last statement. It's tax dollars diverted to a private company. The fact these specific dollars which otherwise would go to the general fund (belonging to everyone, or "the public") are only being collected in one tax district does not mean it's not public monies or tax dollars. That's ridiculously misleading.

I'm not even against properly structured incentivization, but don't dress it up in lies.

If there is no arena district then there are no dollars going to the public at all.

Public sector spends to create income for the private sector all the time as a way to generate money for both. Some of it comes covertly and some is obvious. That's the way of the world and it isn't going to change anytime soon, but what you have to have is a balance between the two where one does not take a huge advantage over the other.

Example.... as it existed.... IA's original lease took advantage of Glendale. But if IA had turned GRA into a money making machine that returned all of what Glendale invested and more, then what is it now?? Would you be here griping about it??

Pretty embarrassing attitude to take on your part. You know it's public money and it's backed by the state general fund. You constantly go over the top on the BoH in your support of IA, and this is no different. We can be rational without being entitled.

No.... it's just how it is.

And you don't read enough of BoH to see that I'm also critical of IA.

Example.... I got just as tired of hearing all these arena announcements from LeBlanc as the next guy. But when he doesn't say a word for several months and you have a couple of posters who keep bringing it up as if he hadn't stopped talking then yeah.... I called it out. Is that "going over the top defending IA"??? Or is simply me calling the other people out for trying to embellish something that doesn't exist??

 

[_Del_]

If there is no arena district then there are no dollars going to the public at all.

Doubtful unless the entire 30 acres is undeveloped, and even then there is property taxes. And in this case you are literally moving state tax earnings from an area already taxed to an area where you will now split the tax. How is that a non-negative from the general purse?

To the rest, as I said, I'm not against incentivization if it makes sense. I'm not sure this makes sense, and in this case, even if it made sense, I'm not sure the politcal/economic climate is going to have lawmakers lined up to pass yet another tax-payer arena in the area. Particularly for the Coyotes, who the IA lovers are quick to point out, don't have many fans. Long road ahead before any sort of celebrating.

 

[KG]

So right now the plan is to fund an arena without a location? wut

 

[_Del_]

So right now the plan is to fund an arena without a location? wut

If this passes they get to play Mesa and Phoenix off eachother to see who (if anyone) ponies up $55M and whatever other associated perks. But even the passage of this wouldn't ensure a new arena. You'd have to get the new City to commit (which is admittedly probably much easier than pushing this through the State legislature).

 

[SniperHF]

Well, if you can get something passed at the legislature and have it stand up to challenges I assume finding some dirt wouldn't be too difficult. Though getting a city to contribute 55M per one of the tweets probably would be.

If this is a serious effort, I'm mostly hoping they announce a GRA extension soon so I can go back to barely paying attention to this crap.

 

[_Del_]

I noticed IA went from contributing half to contributing less than half, as well. They aren't making it easy on themselves.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

So right now the plan is to fund an arena without a location? wut

Getting this passed would make the next step of negotiating with a city much easier. If this does get passed I'd feel pretty confident that they'll get a new arena. I'm sure there'd be a city that would build a new arena for 55m.

But if this doesn't get passed IA is either gonna have to try and make nice with Glendale, either long term or short term and pray that the Suns will let them share an arena. If not I think the team will be moving.

 

[PerpetualTankYear]

More expectations. More plans. Two more weeks (over under June 1st before we hear that phrase from LeBlanc again?)

Call me when there's dirt being moved.

 

[MIGs Dog]

If every man, woman, and child on the planet chipped in .03 cents we would have the $225 mil.

or

$1 from every American would cover it.

or

400,000 trucks cross our southern border per day. $1 per truck and the stadium is paid for in no time. A nickle per truck if you want to stretch the repayment over 30 years. (I know, the Feds would not allow it. Just doing an intellectual exercise)

or

.01 cent per alcoholic beverage sold would pay for it in 10 years.

or

legalize pot and tax the **** out of it. (never mind, tried that )

Lots of options.

 

[crazyhockeylover96]

They could tax alcohol, cigarettes, and anti-depressants to fund the Coyotes that cause many people to self-treat the symptoms of being a Coyotes fan. Funding would be complete fairly quickly.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Well, if you can get something passed at the legislature and have it stand up to challenges I assume finding some dirt wouldn't be too difficult. Though getting a city to contribute 55M per one of the tweets probably would be.

If this is a serious effort, I'm mostly hoping they announce a GRA extension soon so I can go back to barely paying attention to this crap.

I thought that the extension was already announced.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Deja vu (over and over again). Deja vu vu?

I know that Scottsdale, Mesa and Gilbert can manage to arrange funding for the municipal share.

What I don't know is if there is enough interest in the legislature to keep the Coyotes; 1. in Arizona and 2. off of Indian lands.

 

[Spirit of Lindgren]

News media trying to get people riled up because a bill passes committee

 

[Art.Vandelay]

That's exactly what is being proposed here. You can argue that it's not all upfront money, but it is tax money being deferred or forfeited to IA as part of the scheme for an arena.

As I understand it, none of the taxes would be going to IA. 50% of taxes generated would be used to pay off the construction bonds. The local entity would own the arena, not IA.

David Leibowitz ‏@leiboaz 17h17 hours ago
Quoting @BobWorsleyAZ on #Coyotes project: 1/2 tax revenue will "stay in system" to fund state, county, city needs. 1/2 "to pay off bonds."

David Leibowitz ‏@leiboaz 17h17 hours ago
Coyotes deal to be built on dirt creating $0 in revenue. Team invests $170 mil. 1/2 tax revenue pays bonds. 1/2 goes to state, county, city.

David Leibowitz ‏@leiboaz 17h17 hours ago
Key point by @JimNortonPhx on #Coyotes deal: Team will invest $170 mil to build project. City will end up owning building free and clear.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I thought that the extension was already announced.

It was a "soft open," but basically it was an automatic one-year renewal on Jan 1 that is effective until the end of next season.

Deja vu (over and over again). Deja vu vu?

I know that Scottsdale, Mesa and Gilbert can manage to arrange funding for the municipal share.

What I don't know is if there is enough interest in the legislature to keep the Coyotes; 1. in Arizona and 2. off of Indian lands.

Scottsdale, Mesa, and Gilbert can manage to arrange funding - the question is, will they? Scottsdale already turned down the Coyotes once for a new building before. Gilbert should be a non-starter - it's the same problem as Glendale except on the other side of the Valley.

I'm sure the Legislature is interested in keeping the Coyotes in Arizona; the question is whether the financial commitment is worth it.

I still think the tribal option is the only valid one left to the Coyotes at this juncture.

 

[Spirit of Lindgren]

Doug and Wolf just commented that the intent of this bill was to keep any new arena from being built on tribal land

 

[Tom Polakis]

If this is a serious effort, I'm mostly hoping they announce a GRA extension soon so I can go back to barely paying attention to this crap.

That's all I really care about. Will the Coyotes be in metro Phoenix next season or not? Will I buy another 13-game plan and follow them, or do I actively root against them if they're somewhere else?

 

[mouser]

Doug and Wolf just commented that the intent of this bill was to keep any new arena from being built on tribal land

Plausible reasoning the legislators might be considering.

 

[RemoAZ]

I still think the tribal option is the only valid one left to the Coyotes at this juncture.

I've always thought this. That is the only place they will get the hand out they are looking for. This reminds me of the Cardinals fiasco. They exhausted every other option getting turned down in the east valley then finally took the one offer they had, from Glendale.

 

[kihekah19*]

Doug and Wolf just commented that the intent of this bill was to keep any new arena from being built on tribal land

Just caught the end of that segment and missed that. Interesting... I see it as something that would maybe tilt an arena away from tribal lands, but don't see it as any guarantee.

Wouldn't it be amusing if a tribe gets this done and it becomes a huge success? I say bully to them, if so. It's not as if there wouldn't be some justice there.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I've always thought this. That is the only place they will get the hand out they are looking for. This reminds me of the Cardinals fiasco. They exhausted every other option getting turned down in the east valley then finally took the one offer they had, from Glendale.

Now, let's be real - the tribes are not going to give them a handout. I believe one tribal group already tried to get a subsidy proposal approved and was rejected by the reservation authority. What the tribes have is more money to play with, fewer regulatory restrictions, and the ability (albeit not sure if they have the desire) to offer the Coyotes more revenue streams. Not to mention that reservation land is wide open for development, whereas finding appropriate land to build on in established cities is tough, not to mention figuring out and funding better access to those parcels.

Wouldn't it be amusing if a tribe gets this done and it becomes a huge success? I say bully to them, if so. It's not as if there wouldn't be some justice there.

I would have a hearty laugh for a variety of reasons, but largely I would just be happy about it getting done. And I'd much rather drive out to one of the tribal parcels than have to fight my way into downtown or - worst case scenario - commit a couple of hours to make the long trek to a place like Gilbert.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

That's all I really care about. Will the Coyotes be in metro Phoenix next season or not? Will I buy another 13-game plan and follow them, or do I actively root against them if they're somewhere else?

They renewed the lease in Glendale for next season, so right now the answer is yes.

 

[kihekah19*]

I would have a hearty laugh for a variety of reasons, but largely I would just be happy about it getting done. And I'd much rather drive out to one of the tribal parcels than have to fight my way into downtown or - worst case scenario - commit a couple of hours to make the long trek to a place like Gilbert.

I would think downtown is the preferred location, all things considered.

In light of the "intent" per Doug & Wolf, as Spirit reported, it becomes even more interesting (as a political move) when we consider the loose talk recently about the Suns possibly headed toward the res.