Coyotes Arena Discussion (Crowdsourced real estate detective work)

[The Feckless Puck]

In light of the "intent" per Doug & Wolf, as Spirit reported, it becomes even more interesting (as a political move) when we consider the loose talk recently about the Suns possibly headed toward the res.

Well, I trust Doug and Wolf about as far as I can throw them, and they are heavy, heavy men. That said, it does make a bit of sense that City of Phoenix is in desperation mode - what with the Suns needing a new barn soon and the Diamondbacks making noise about leaving downtown eventually. The sad part is that the taxpayers are gonna get reamed (again), but it certainly should make the next few months interesting as people dance around and strategize.

 

[kihekah19*]

Well, I trust Doug and Wolf about as far as I can throw them, and they are heavy, heavy men. That said, it does make a bit of sense that City of Phoenix is in desperation mode - what with the Suns needing a new barn soon and the Diamondbacks making noise about leaving downtown eventually. The sad part is that the taxpayers are gonna get reamed (again), but it certainly should make the next few months interesting as people dance around and strategize.

Especially Wolf (although he's actually kinda puny, considering his former work), he wore out his welcome with me many, many years ago.

My young kronk brothers... basinonians and all

 

[The Feckless Puck]

My young kronk brothers... basinonians and all

I think he's actually saying, "based audience," which is a weak attempt at a meme. Either way it's annoying...

 

[The Feckless Puck]

http://arizonasports.com/story/1024...rovide-funds-for-new-coyotes-arena-explained/

Interesting nugget here:

According to the Coyotes, once the arena is built their annual cost to maintain it will be around $24.4 million, which is among the highest for comparable NHL teams.

I say "interesting" because it appears that IceArizona is going to weasel $10 million more than they were getting from Glendale from whoever their new patsy is via a thinly-disguised subsidy.

 

[kihekah19*]

http://arizonasports.com/story/1024...rovide-funds-for-new-coyotes-arena-explained/

Interesting nugget here:



I say "interesting" because it appears that IceArizona is going to weasel $10 million more than they were getting from Glendale from whoever their new patsy is via a thinly-disguised subsidy.

"Fans" don't go to games.... gotta get your money somewhere.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

"Fans" don't go to games.... gotta get your money somewhere.

Yeah, well, if their past performance in honoring leases is indicative of future results, then we're just setting up for another one of these brou-hahas down the road once their new host city realizes how badly IceArizona is ripping them off.

What a bunch of frickin' con artists.

 

[kihekah19*]

Yeah, well, if their past performance in honoring leases is indicative of future results, then we're just setting up for another one of these brou-hahas down the road once their new host city realizes how badly IceArizona is ripping them off.

What a bunch of frickin' con artists.

Indeed, but the only con artists we've got.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Doug and Wolf just commented that the intent of this bill was to keep any new arena from being built on tribal land

Which one? They're both blowhards, one with a fake Rambo schtick and the other with a fake self-deprecating schtick.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

As I understand it, none of the taxes would be going to IA. 50% of taxes generated would be used to pay off the construction bonds. The local entity would own the arena, not IA.
...

(Wow, look who the cat dragged in! Welcome back!)

Doug and Wolf just commented that the intent of this bill was to keep any new arena from being built on tribal land

Classic Arizona. "No new taxes for arenas!...wait, you mean if the tribe builds one...we get $0?...uh, ok, *some* new taxes for arenas!"

 

[RemoAZ]

http://arizonasports.com/story/1024...rovide-funds-for-new-coyotes-arena-explained/

Interesting nugget here:



I say "interesting" because it appears that IceArizona is going to weasel $10 million more than they were getting from Glendale from whoever their new patsy is via a thinly-disguised subsidy.

Wow. The balls on these guys... Another reason I can't see this happening or them even expecting it to have a chance.

 

[Summer Rose]

Like some of the other posters in this thread have said, this is just about non-news when it comes to IA. Call me when shovels are in the ground.

 

[Howler Scores]

Hey if you dont ask it, you can't be told no.

 

[Sinurgy]

Deja vu (over and over again). Deja vu vu?

I know that Scottsdale, Mesa and Gilbert can manage to arrange funding for the municipal share.

What I don't know is if there is enough interest in the legislature to keep the Coyotes; 1. in Arizona and 2. off of Indian lands.

I can't imagine any situation where they'd consider Gilbert, that would be beyond stupid as it'd basically end up being Glendale Part II. At this point the only options they should even remotely be considering are Phoenix, Tempe, Scottsdale. I suppose Mesa would be ok but only if we're talking within a mile or two of the border of Tempe/Scottsdale.

 

[XX]

I say "interesting" because it appears that IceArizona is going to weasel $10 million more than they were getting from Glendale from whoever their new patsy is via a thinly-disguised subsidy.

Good ol IA, can't survive without a subsidy. Wonder how they're going to justify that number when cities start to ask about it. Are they going to manage the arena too? Such a stellar track record of that.

 

[Jakey53]

Who can build these type of facilities without public money? Do you really think Sarver is going to pony up 100% for his new home? There will be some type of public money with all these deals.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

Who can build these type of facilities without public money? Do you really think Sarver is going to pony up 100% for his new home? There will be some type of public money with all these deals.

The current push in the sports business world is against tax and publically funded arenas and stadiums. Arenas cost too much money for it to be put on tax payer backs so generally people are rejecting that plan and basically making it so that private group projects are the ones that build and fill up the arena.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Who can build these type of facilities without public money?

People with actual money to spend can. I heard on the radio the other day that an NBA player is going to be making almost half of the cost of the arena build in his next contract, and he's not even a top-tier player.

Now, if you ask, "Who bothers to spend their own money when they can bilk other people out of theirs?" you'd have a much better rhetorical question.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

The Indian nations can afford that kind of cash. They also have prime real estate and might try to tie in gambling junkets with a hockey game, like LV will do.

Regardless, Glendale is "dead man walking" in so far as IE is concerned. I don't know why the Glendale City Manager continues to push for the Coyotes to stay in Glendale. Their tenant is leaving in a bit over a year, one way or another.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

The Indian nations can afford that kind of cash. They also have prime real estate and might try to tie in gambling junkets with a hockey game, like LV will do.

Which is why a reservation stadium makes by far the most sense for the Coyotes and Arizona. But Arizona being greedy wants the profits that they wouldn't see for a number of years

 

[AZviaNJ]

The Indian nations can afford that kind of cash. They also have prime real estate and might try to tie in gambling junkets with a hockey game, like LV will do.

Regardless, Glendale is "dead man walking" in so far as IE is concerned. I don't know why the Glendale City Manager continues to push for the Coyotes to stay in Glendale. Their tenant is leaving in a bit over a year, one way or another.

I am surprised this wasn't Plan A from the beginning. They'd have been 6-9 months into the process already if they went this route initially.

 

[Mosby]

So the vote was 6-1 and the 1 Senator who voted against represents the Tribe area? Conflict of interest there, no?

 

[_Del_]

So the vote was 6-1 and the 1 Senator who voted against represents the Tribe area? Conflict of interest there, no?

No more than the Glendale, Suncity, etc reps who are sure to vote against it on the floor. Or reps from districts in Phoenix proper who would vote for.

I am surprised this wasn't Plan A from the beginning. They'd have been 6-9 months into the process already if they went this route initially.

Tribes aren't going to build these jokers an arena on their land AND pay them large subsidies to stay there. That is clearly IA's game plan if they're looking for $22M a year as a cherry on top. Ridiculous.


I know the league wants to protect the status quo, and that means forcing municipalities to cough up for new arenas every few years under threat of relocation, but they may be in for a wake up call. Especially in this market with the Suns, Coyotes, and Dbacks all making noise.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Who can build these type of facilities without public money? Do you really think Sarver is going to pony up 100% for his new home? There will be some type of public money with all these deals.

The current push in the sports business world is against tax and publically funded arenas and stadiums. Arenas cost too much money for it to be put on tax payer backs so generally people are rejecting that plan and basically making it so that private group projects are the ones that build and fill up the arena.

Other than the new stadium in LA, and the new arena in Vegas and sort of the Barclays Center, I can't think of any recent sport facilities that haven't received public funding. Unless you're in a very unique situation, (like LA and Vegas) you're gonna need/get at least some public money. Majority of Rogers Place was publicly funded, Minnesota's new stadium was like 50/50, Quebec was 100% taxpayer money, Detroit's new arena is getting quite a bit, about 50% of Atlanta's new stadium is publicly funded.

I am surprised this wasn't Plan A from the beginning. They'd have been 6-9 months into the process already if they went this route initially.

They were planning to go to the state around this time with the ASU plan, but because that was scrapped they modified their request a bit.

 

[Jakey53]

Other than the new stadium in LA, and the new arena in Vegas and sort of the Barclays Center, I can't think of any recent sport facilities that haven't received public funding. Unless you're in a very unique situation, (like LA and Vegas) you're gonna need/get at least some public money. Majority of Rogers Place was publicly funded, Minnesota's new stadium was like 50/50, Quebec was 100% taxpayer money, Detroit's new arena is getting quite a bit, about 50% of Atlanta's new stadium is publicly funded.



They were planning to go to the state around this time with the ASU plan, but because that was scrapped they modified their request a bit.

Forbes estimates the Sun's to be worth $1.1B. I wonder what is going to happen when he comes with his hands out for a subsidy? You know damn well he will.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Forbes estimates the Sun's to be worth $1.1B. I wonder what is going to happen when he comes with his hands out for a subsidy? You know damn well he will.

If the Coyotes-related bills pass, it'll be a lot easier for Sarver to get his public money.