Speculation: Coyotes 2021 Offseason Roster Discussion Thread #5

[Jakey53]

Need a pick in there. Rather have a 1st than Poehling

That pick will probably be in the late 20's, so you better hope that pick is better than Poehling.

 

[rt]

To MTL
Dvorak
Fischer

To ARI
Drouin
Poehling
Guhle
___
To CAR
Capobianco

To ARI
Gardiner
Bokk
___
To STL
Kessel (50%)
COL ‘22 1st

To ARI
Sanford
Neighbors
___
Dzingel-Schmaltz-Keller
Sanford-Poehling-Jaskin
Crouse-Larsson-Drouin
Roussel-Beagle-Boyd
Ladd/Eriksson

Chychrun-Stralman
Gostisbehere-Timmins
Gardiner-Lyubushkin
JJ Moser

Hutton
Korenar
Ingram (waiver claim)
___

1. Guenther
2. Soderstrom
3. Guhle
4. Neighbors
5. Jenik
6. Hayton
7. Timmins
8. Bokk
9. Maccelli
10. Poehling

 

[tucknroll]

Neighbors actually made my draft list which I consider impressive because my list is typically 30 players or less who I really like and I personally wouldn't rank him that high.
Also really curious about what you like so much about Guhle. Aside from physicality, size and ability to join the rush I personally don't see anything that says he has the potential to be a reliable top 4 D at the next level. I'm not always correct obviously.

I do really like your waiver claim though. Think there will be lots of good claims available this year.

I would love to pry a couple guys out of Tampa like Foote and Katchouk who share the same mold as the prospects above. I don't know how much wiggle room Tampa has at the moment for trades though

 

[Heldig]

Would you guys do Dvorak, Kessel (50%) and Capobianco for Guhle, Poehling, and Drouin?

I would not.

I think Guhle + Poehling is the minimum return for Dvorak alone.

Kessel should garner an ok return on his own.

Capobianco is likely waiver wire.

Drouin is a negative asset that Montreal needs to pay to get rid of.

 

[YotesFan47]

To MTL
Dvorak
Fischer

To ARI
Drouin
Poehling
Guhle
___
To CAR
Capobianco

To ARI
Gardiner
Bokk
___
To STL
Kessel (50%)
COL ‘22 1st

To ARI
Sanford
Neighbors
___
Dzingel-Schmaltz-Keller
Sanford-Poehling-Jaskin
Crouse-Larsson-Drouin
Roussel-Beagle-Boyd
Ladd/Eriksson

Chychrun-Stralman
Gostisbehere-Timmins
Gardiner-Lyubushkin
JJ Moser

Hutton
Korenar
Ingram (waiver claim)
___

1. Guenther
2. Soderstrom
3. Guhle
4. Neighbors
5. Jenik
6. Hayton
7. Timmins
8. Bokk
9. Maccelli
10. Poehling

Go tell BA and get it done. Add Guhle and Neighbors? Slam dunk.

Also in with you on the Romanov part but don't think Montreal would have any interest in moving him.

 

[Mosby]

I'd rather have Dvo than a 20ish overall first rounder and a 3rd round pick.

 

[Schemp]

Hayton is broken and need Coach Tourigny's tutelage. IMO, the only way to repair the damage Tocchet has done and salvage BH's career.

I wish we could get Pesce in a hockey trade instead of Gardiner in a hockey dump. He would be a great partner for Chychrun.

 

[Schemp]

I'd rather have Dvo than a 20ish overall first rounder and a 3rd round pick.

How is that an overpayment? 2 1sts & Guhle would be my asking price, willing to give up one of the 2nds...

 

[Jakey53]

I'd rather have Dvo than a 20ish overall first rounder and a 3rd round pick.

I agree. Would rather have a proven NHL player than a late first rounder. If the picks aren't top ten the value of the picks drop dramatically. My opinion of course. DVO is a 2nd. line C, plays both ways and is good in the dot. We need C's and we can't give what we have away for a hope and a prayer.

 

[Jakey53]

Hayton is broken and need Coach Tourigny's tutelage. IMO, the only way to repair the damage Tocchet has done and salvage BH's career.

I wish we could get Pesce in a hockey trade instead of Gardiner in a hockey dump. He would be a great partner for Chychrun.

I don't know why RT gets all the blame for Hayton. He may not have been much help, but Hayton's play sure in hell didn't help either. Like Doaner told his son that getting drafted was nice and all, but now the work begins. Hayton must have missed the memo because Hayton has done very little to help his cause. This is Hayton's D+4 year. Time to look in the mirror and get off the pot.

 

[PuckLife]

I don't know why RT gets all the blame for Hayton. He may not have been much help, but Hayton's play sure in hell didn't help either. Like Doaner told his son that getting drafted was nice and all, but now the work begins. Hayton must have missed the memo because Hayton has done very little to help his cause. This is Hayton's D+4 year. Time to look in the mirror and get off the pot.

Can anyone tell me where this narrative that Hayton lacks competitiveness or a work ethic comes from? I see a couple people on here who have speculated repeatedly and now a bunch of posters seem to accept it as the truth.
In his time with the Soo he was known as the most dedicated guy on the team - with fitness, nutrition and practice. In his second year he was the de facto leader on a vet laden team. He was captain his 3 year - one of the youngest captains the Hounds have had.
he worked his way up in the Program of Excellence, all the way to captaining a gold medal team.
If you don’t think the Coyotes have stagnated him, I just don’t get it.
My 2 cents - let the kid start off fresh and see where it goes.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Can anyone tell me where this narrative that Hayton lacks competitiveness or a work ethic comes from? I see a couple people on here who have speculated repeatedly and now a bunch of posters seem to accept it as the truth.
In his time with the Soo he was known as the most dedicated guy on the team - with fitness, nutrition and practice. In his second year he was the de facto leader on a vet laden team. He was captain his 3 year - one of the youngest captains the Hounds have had.
he worked his way up in the Program of Excellence, all the way to captaining a gold medal team.
If you don’t think the Coyotes have stagnated him, I just don’t get it.
My 2 cents - let the kid start off fresh and see where it goes.

Repeat the lie often enough and it becomes accepted, a strong basis of propaganda.
My eyeballs also disagree with the premise that he's washed up before he's ever really gotten more than a cuppa.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Can anyone tell me where this narrative that Hayton lacks competitiveness or a work ethic comes from? I see a couple people on here who have speculated repeatedly and now a bunch of posters seem to accept it as the truth.
In his time with the Soo he was known as the most dedicated guy on the team - with fitness, nutrition and practice. In his second year he was the de facto leader on a vet laden team. He was captain his 3 year - one of the youngest captains the Hounds have had.
he worked his way up in the Program of Excellence, all the way to captaining a gold medal team.
If you don’t think the Coyotes have stagnated him, I just don’t get it.
My 2 cents - let the kid start off fresh and see where it goes.

I'm sure his work ethic is great, I think people are conflating work ethic and "on ice compete level". In all the games I've watched, he's soft on the puck. Don't know what practice is like, but he's got to get more engaged and scrappy...we've already got Keller/Schmaltz who treat the corner as a sacred place thou shall not go, we don't need anymore players on the team that give it that kind of reverence.

 

[XX]

I'm sure his work ethic is great, I think people are conflating work ethic and "on ice compete level". In all the games I've watched, he's soft on the puck

Uhh, what? His favorite move is to take the puck deep and shield it from the defender with his body, looking for a pass to a dangerous area. He is big into the physical side of things, much more than Dvorak and wallflower Schmaltz. His only personal problem (that did not involve linemates or coaching) is that his first few steps and ability to change direction are not NHL level. That's a problem for a center. It can be fixed.

I'm not worried about him. He has a proper coach now.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Repeat the lie often enough and it becomes accepted, a strong basis of propaganda.
My eyeballs also disagree with the premise that he's washed up before he's ever really gotten more than a cuppa.

My eyeballs tell me he needs more time, not that he is a bust. He needs confidence and success. Bring him up after 40 games but work on quickening the pass/shoot/ hold decision making process. Lots of video work and lots of shifts.

 

[PuckLife]

Hayton is training with the big dogs this week at the BioSteel camp.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Uhh, what? His favorite move is to take the puck deep and shield it from the defender with his body, looking for a pass to a dangerous area. He is big into the physical side of things, much more than Dvorak and wallflower Schmaltz. His only personal problem (that did not involve linemates or coaching) is that his first few steps and ability to change direction are not NHL level. That's a problem for a center. It can be fixed.

I'm not worried about him. He has a proper coach now.

Already possessing the puck is so far from competing for the puck. He never engaged in the physical side of competing to get the puck back, he wasn't hard on the forecheck or in the corners...I'm not wrong.

 

[rt]

My main issue with Hayton is the sluggishness of his reactions and instincts. His pace. It's so slooooowwwwww.... Kid is just dripping in molasses, inside and out. He's not a slow skater. He's a slow player.

 

[moosemeister]

Another season in Tucson will do wonders for Hayton. He got better as the year went along. I would love to see him dominate.

I’ll be in Tucson quite a bit this season so I’ll send any reports if I get them

 

[XX]

Already possessing the puck is so far from competing for the puck. He never engaged in the physical side of competing to get the puck back, he wasn't hard on the forecheck or in the corners...I'm not wrong.

I don't agree and don't see it at all.

Multiple times Hayton battled physically with guys to get a defensive clear when no one else would. He's certainly willing. I think he's so willing that his future might be as a LW instead of a center. Contact doesn't bother him.

Hayton's also not going to dive in on a guy at 110% on the forecheck when Kessel is nowhere to be found, for example. They were a very bad fit together and that line had basically no sustained offensive zone time. A good forecheck requires guys to be on the same page. A bad one is just a massive waste of energy.

Not having any sort of structure or plan from the redline forward under Tocchet was also a huge issue for pretty much every skilled player on the roster. If it wasn't off the rush, they didn't know what to do. There was no plan.

Tourigny is all about habits and isn't going to let Hayton slack off. He's also not going to put him with the wrong linemates and can recognize his strengths. This is a 21 year old player. Give it time. Centers that hit the ground running and just absolutely dominate are 1Cs. Everyone else needs to put in the time in a good situation.

 

[PuckLife]

I don't agree and don't see it at all.

Multiple times Hayton battled physically with guys to get a defensive clear when no one else would. He's certainly willing. I think he's so willing that his future might be as a LW instead of a center. Contact doesn't bother him.

Hayton's also not going to dive in on a guy at 110% on the forecheck when Kessel is nowhere to be found, for example. They were a very bad fit together and that line had basically no sustained offensive zone time. A good forecheck requires guys to be on the same page. A bad one is just a massive waste of energy.

Not having any sort of structure or plan from the redline forward under Tocchet was also a huge issue for pretty much every skilled player on the roster. If it wasn't off the rush, they didn't know what to do. There was no plan.

Tourigny is all about habits and isn't going to let Hayton slack off. He's also not going to put him with the wrong linemates and can recognize his strengths. This is a 21 year old player. Give it time. Centers that hit the ground running and just absolutely dominate are 1Cs. Everyone else needs to put in the time in a good situation.

Great post. Thanks xx

 

[Jamieh]

Hayton has played a grand total of 384 minutes in the NHL, how the heck can anyone know what he does or doesn't do?

 

[rt]

Hayton has played a grand total of 384 minutes in the NHL, how the heck can anyone know what he does or doesn't do?

And those have been extremely disjointed. Over multiple seasons. With crazy long intervals between. No rhythm. Nothing. Complete waste. The Coyotes could not have done more to harm this player. If you were trying to intentionally ruin a prospect, this is what it would look like.

 

[Jamieh]

And those have been extremely disjointed. Over multiple seasons. With crazy long intervals between. No rhythm. Nothing. Complete waste. The Coyotes could not have done more to harm this player. If you were trying to intentionally ruin a prospect, this is what it would look like.

It should have been very apparent in year 1 that he get sent back to Jr, you only keep them up if they can play a regular role. If you "learned" by watching NHL hockey we'd all be really good!!! Sure an occasional game off would be fine but the opposite didn't work.

 

[Jakey53]

Can anyone tell me where this narrative that Hayton lacks competitiveness or a work ethic comes from? I see a couple people on here who have speculated repeatedly and now a bunch of posters seem to accept it as the truth.
In his time with the Soo he was known as the most dedicated guy on the team - with fitness, nutrition and practice. In his second year he was the de facto leader on a vet laden team. He was captain his 3 year - one of the youngest captains the Hounds have had.
he worked his way up in the Program of Excellence, all the way to captaining a gold medal team.
If you don’t think the Coyotes have stagnated him, I just don’t get it.
My 2 cents - let the kid start off fresh and see where it goes.

What Hayton did in junior means squat. Most players that make it to junior know all about fitness, nutrition, being competitive etc. I have seen star players in junior that never make it to the NHL, or if they do, their impact was not was expected. That's just the way it is. Hayton has that 5OA hanging over his head, so we expect big things, and we have not and probably never will see. The Coyotes and RT have to take some blame, but so does the player. I would love for Hayton to come to camp and show why he was selected 5OA.