Line Combos: Coyle vs. Niederreiter

[tomthestone*]

Coyle was never billed as a grinder, he's projected to be a powerforward.

Right. Poor word to use. I meant more that he's had the size and a bit of grit in his game since being drafted, but the offense was always a question mark.

 

[Minnesota]

Right. Poor word to use. I meant more that he's had the size and a bit of grit in his game since being drafted, but the offense was always a question mark.

True. Coyle's upside has always been that offensive development. If that begins to click, he's a steal in the late 1st round.

 

[keppel146]

Coyle could get more than 20 easy in the future.I also think niño could get 20 as well. They should both be good this yr. with haula now on the 3rd line that should add some offense big time.

 

[Bookman]

My vote will go to whoever is willing to sign a damn contract....

So far, advantage Coyle.

 

[tomthestone*]

My vote will go to whoever is willing to sign a damn contract....

So far, advantage Coyle.

Tyson Barrie just signed. The rest of the unsigned RFAs (maybe outside of Johansen) will start dropping like flies.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Does TSK realize Coyle spent the vast majority of last season on the wing? After Haula's coming out party, I should think the Coyle at center experiment is over barring a crazy rash of injuries down the middle.

You realize that for part of the season Granlund and Koivu were injured? Furthermore, that we have Koivu and Granlund as centers. Both of whom haven't shown the best of health the past two seasons? Are we comfortable with Haula and Brodziak as our 1/2 centers next year?

And guys picked at the end of the first round and later always have leaks in their game. If Coyle was supposed to breeze his way to 20 goals within 3-4 years of being drafted, he would've been selected 20 picks earlier with his huge frame. Lol @ this "developing offense" hogwash. Dude has always been widely known to be a raw, grinder type with just enough offensive ability to keep him from being labeled a permanent bottom-sixer.

Grinder type? He wasn't known as a pure goal scorer but he wasn't a slouch offensively. He was seen as a power forward that could contribute, not hinter, the offense of a line. As for leaks? Yes, but usually the teams develop those leaks over a period of time. Not throw them immediately into the NHL.I mean look at Emerson Etem for Anaheim. He's coming along nicely. Brock Nelson scored 14 goals in his first NHL season and that's the guys taken around Coyle's slot. Herlt, taken 17th overall the next year, had 15 goals in his limited time in the NHL. Kyle Palmieri had 14 in his season year. Eberle had 34 goals his second season. Tyler Ennis had 20 goals his second season.

I mean it depends on how you develop but if you have a scouting department and a coaching staff, guys with leaks can be developed.

 

[tomthestone*]

You realize that for part of the season Granlund and Koivu were injured? Furthermore, that we have Koivu and Granlund as centers. Both of whom haven't shown the best of health the past two seasons? Are we comfortable with Haula and Brodziak as our 1/2 centers next year?



Grinder type? He wasn't known as a pure goal scorer but he wasn't a slouch offensively. He was seen as a power forward that could contribute, not hinter, the offense of a line. As for leaks? Yes, but usually the teams develop those leaks over a period of time. Not throw them immediately into the NHL.I mean look at Emerson Etem for Anaheim. He's coming along nicely. Brock Nelson scored 14 goals in his first NHL season and that's the guys taken around Coyle's slot. Herlt, taken 17th overall the next year, had 15 goals in his limited time in the NHL. Kyle Palmieri had 14 in his season year. Eberle had 34 goals his second season. Tyler Ennis had 20 goals his second season.

I mean it depends on how you develop but if you have a scouting department and a coaching staff, guys with leaks can be developed.

In the event the Wild lost its top two centers simultaneously, I think Haula/Brodziak would be a better temporary 1-2 punch down the middle than what well over half the league would have as replacement options. You can't have four centers capable of holding down top-six minutes. Any team losing its best two centers is screwed no matter what.

I backed off the use of the word grinder and admitted it was the wrong term to use. Several posters have pointed out that they agree Chahhlie could have used more seasoning in the minors, but the Wild didn't have any clear-cut better options to put in his place on the right wing. Coyle was up on the big club before Pominville got here, and even after that, the best in-house options to play over Coyle were guys like Clutterbuck and Torrey Mitchell. It's pretty obvious why the front office and coaching staff opted to let Coyle learn at the NHL level instead of trotting those benders out there or investing in another trade for a capable winger.

Obviously guys drafted later in the first round and into the second often turn out, and the Wild aren't ruining Coyle the way you suggest. It's funny you point to Brock Nelson as an example the Wild should look up to. Nelson is older than Coyle and recorded less points over two more games in 2013-14, while playing in the vastly inferior conference.

 

[Al Lagoon]

Having Coyle be able to slot in as a center is an incredible gift to the Wild's forward depth. I agree with TSK, both Koivu and Granlund are likely to spend time on the DL any given season. This allows the Wild to avoid the Peters and Konopkas of the world.

Almond is a nice fill as 4th line center as well.

 

[this providence]

If there was a longer term injury to Koivu/Granlund, I'd rather slot Parise at center than have to watch Coyle attempt to play in the middle again. Besides, on this team, it's much easier to move players up and down at the wings than at center...

As far as Nino signing, I think both sides are waiting to see what some of these RFA forwards are going to get with their deal. Neither side wants to be too high/low when it all is said and done. As for Kuemper who the hell knows/cares.

 

[rynryn]

if I were Nino I'd want a shorter deal. Has the potential to really play way above whatever a reasonable contract for his current level of play is even with padding on it for the expected bump in production. So from his point of view--get two years at a fair wage or just slightly overpaid or four years with ~ 2 of them fair and the rest way underpaid. Lets also, from his point of view, based on current contracts, factor in the number of top six openings at wing coming up. Fine, he could beat out Coyle, but on another team there might be two spots up for grabs and a better chance of getting one.

 

[tomthestone*]

If there was a longer term injury to Koivu/Granlund, I'd rather slot Parise at center than have to watch Coyle attempt to play in the middle again. Besides, on this team, it's much easier to move players up and down at the wings than at center...

As far as Nino signing, I think both sides are waiting to see what some of these RFA forwards are going to get with their deal. Neither side wants to be too high/low when it all is said and done. As for Kuemper who the hell knows/cares.

The great Bob McKenzie just tweeted that Kuemper is looking into possibly going KHL on it. That's pretty hilarious if true.

 

[TaLoN]

The great Bob McKenzie just tweeted that Kuemper is looking into possibly going KHL on it. That's pretty hilarious if true.

If he wants to... let him go.

 

[eternalfaith]

Nino on the 3rd with Cooke and Haula makes for a top 9 team instead of a top 6 team. ALso, Coyle has much better board work for the Vanek Koivu line. Vanek in front of the net and Koivu in the high slot (doing that 3rd defender thing he learned from Lamaire) and Coyle working the boards in the corner and feeding them.

I just dont see Nino being the guy in the corner with Koivu and Vanek where Coyle is great in the corner and wont mind doing it.

 

[rynryn]

i don't think Nino would mind doing it but it's not playing up to his strengths.

 

[Al Lagoon]

i don't think Nino would mind doing it but it's not playing up to his strengths.

Although, I noticed in the Olympics, then later with the Wild, one of Nino's trademark moves is to try to pin the puck up along the boards on the offensive zone. It is a strength imo.

 

[rynryn]

poorly worded i guess...as one of the better shots on a team that has trouble finishing, we are better served with him spending as much time as possible in a scoring position.

 

[Loopy0ne]

It is great to finally have some big bodies with skill playing more minutes for the Wild. Went with Coyle because (hopefully) his confidence will be there and he will fully use his stronger frame. JMO - confidence is so important and he seemed to lose his after the injury. That said, it is very close and Nino should have the chance at first line minutes if Coyle falters even a little bit.

 

[Jarick]

By January, Nino will be in the top six and Coyle on the third line. Zucker will also be third line LW and Cooke on fourth line.

 

[Grover]

^ Yes please.. Hopefully it will happen before January

 

[melinko]

I think Nino "deserves" top 6 over Coyle but I'm not convinced its best for the team.

I think Nino elevates the 3rd more than Coyle is hurting the 2nd line. I think the way the 2nd line plays is better suited for Coyle's strengths too.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Nino deserve top minutes more, but I care more about the PP than regular minutes.

Coyle has a lower ceiling and is less of an impact player. He's more of a big-bodied side-kick. Which means it actually makes more sense for him to ride shot-gun to Vanek and Koivu on the 2nd line.

Nino, on the other hand, can create scoring chances himself, which means he should have a line where he can been the offense generator. So putting him on the 3rd line with Haula is a great spot for him to succeed.

 

[borisbadenough]

I would leave Coyle on the rw and see how his possession game works with that line in the o zone. If he figures out when and how to deliver the puck off the half wall or below the line to those quiet spots TV plays in they will all prosper. He will be there all year and pile up pts and goals in the process. The big question is does he have the vision to do that. I do know that in Montreal it was missing from that line

On the other side of the equation, it is not really a rush line as configured and TV does pretty well in that category stat wise . So you go out and get a guy like him and then you move him out of his niche game? Kinda like Montreal , you get him and put him on a line where he never touches the puck in scoring position and rarely on the pp.

I am not sure Neids game will match up as well as Coyles. Nickschultzfan is on the mark on this one.

 

[Kari Takko]

2nd line, 3rd line... it doesn't really matter, IMHO. Nino's speed and finishing ability meshes well with Haula while Coyle's ability in the corners meshes well with Vanek and Koivu. That said, we didn't get to see an injury free Coyle outside of preseason last year.

Additionally, the lines aren't static. Yeo finally got the guts to make in-game changes towards the end of last season. That will allow him to go with the hot hand and put players in a position to succeed. Combine that with our INSANE forward depth (we could have a top 6 in Iowa that could play NHL minutes), and players will be motivated night in and night out.

 

[BigT2002]

With how the kids played: I would love to see them both with Haula on a line

 

[Jarick]

Yeah but that would be a streaky line. Nino's got tons of skill but sometimes seems to float through games. Coyle has a little skill but skates well, sometimes he's in the right spot sometimes he's lost. Haula is really opportunistic. It would be fun to see.

I'm thinking Vanek-Koivu would need a really good puck carrier on the wing to move the puck through the NZ with some speed and let them set up in the OZ. I don't see Coyle being that guy. Nino? Haula?