Line Combos: Coyle vs. Niederreiter
- Thread starter Al Lagoon
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Nino is a bit of a blackhole offensively in that if he gets the puck, especially in the offensive zone, he's not really looking to give it back. On the plus side of that, he likes to drive the net which I think more players can do.
Said for a while, Coyle just doesn't think/see the game that well. If it's not on the boards he doesn't open himself up as option and he can't really find players that well either. And for his frame, he flies by the net far too often. Coyle is already a sound NHL player, but at this stage I'm not sure how you can look at his game and see top 6 scoring upside.
Said for a while, Coyle just doesn't think/see the game that well. If it's not on the boards he doesn't open himself up as option and he can't really find players that well either. And for his frame, he flies by the net far too often. Coyle is already a sound NHL player, but at this stage I'm not sure how you can look at his game and see top 6 scoring upside.
- Aug 5, 2011
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I think Coyle's passing game is underrated. Dude can set the table, and often tricks goalies into committing because they're expecting him to shoot.
That said, Niederreiter might have the best shot on the team. Dude fires lazer beams that would make Jaques Lemaire curse under his breath in French.
That said, Niederreiter might have the best shot on the team. Dude fires lazer beams that would make Jaques Lemaire curse under his breath in French.
I would bet that for at least 75% of the season we will have at least one top 6 player out of the lineup. I suspect they will both see plenty of top 6 time.
That being said, rolling out a 3'rd line of Nino, Haula, Zucker could potentially be Line #2B.
That being said, rolling out a 3'rd line of Nino, Haula, Zucker could potentially be Line #2B.
gphr513
Watch the world burn
That's kind of what I like about him. I think you need to have a selfish guy (to a degree).
I hate it when we get all "passy" and give up good scoring chances, to set up an easy back door goal, and it gets swatted away to safety.
I think we rushed Coyle - he should have been in the AHL last year or at the very least, not stuck at center where he couldn't develop his offense. That was some DR level management style right there.
I think Nino has a better chance at becoming a 30-30 level player but Coyle might become a 20-40 type of guy that also provides solid physical play and solid defense. I see Coyle as a bigger Dustin Brown without the dirty plays.
There isn't a lot to worry when it comes to offense with el Nino simply because that's ingrained in the type of game he plays. He might be a bit selfish with the puck but he at least shoots it.
Coyle might need more coaching on offense, which is why it was a sham that he got stuck at center or not in the AHL. This organization is just a blackhole for developing offense regardless of who is leading the organization.
At least we'll always have good two-way players.
I think Nino has a better chance at becoming a 30-30 level player but Coyle might become a 20-40 type of guy that also provides solid physical play and solid defense. I see Coyle as a bigger Dustin Brown without the dirty plays.
There isn't a lot to worry when it comes to offense with el Nino simply because that's ingrained in the type of game he plays. He might be a bit selfish with the puck but he at least shoots it.
Coyle might need more coaching on offense, which is why it was a sham that he got stuck at center or not in the AHL. This organization is just a blackhole for developing offense regardless of who is leading the organization.
At least we'll always have good two-way players.
FYI, Lemaire as a rookie had a WAY better shot than Nino has now. For that matter, he had a better shot than anyone on the team.
I agree. I like Coyle more than most, but he defers too much to his linemates. That is not good when one of them is Koivu, who is a big time deferrer himself. He needs to be more selfish, and get that body of his into some shots.
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I can see it as his absolute max. But he'd need to be a PP 'force' to get there.
DANOZ28
Registered User
anyone can have a big year so i wouldnt count coyle out and say hes peaked or will peak at 20G. i think it took pat sharp a few years to feel comfortable then he took off (just an example). nino seems faster & maybe more dynamic. i feel zucker has that dynamic upside.
Coyle was never rushed. He demolished the Q. Two points per in the playoffs. In his short stint in a beefed up AHL he scored at a nice clip. Only being outscored by Fonatine and Zucker. And i do not know when Zucker and Fontaines goals came from. After the NHLers departed or evened out.
Coyle was going to devolp bad hapbits. Bull rush is not an NHL move neither is been unmovable. You will get pushed around by NHL d men. Not Q d men or many AHL defenders.
I put the blame on Yeo and his style. Making Coyle rein in his game to find the Wild. Instead of having some pains and see how Coyle fits in with the wild.
At 22 soon to be 23 he is actually still growing. Maybe not taller but many athletes with big frames can add muscle up to 25. See any NFL player HS to college to Pro.
Blake Wheeler in Green Bay and as a fresh at the U did not look like a guy that would one day lead an NHL team in scoring twice so far. Took him 4 years after his draft to finally balance out. Then a few to bring it all together. 2010: Bjugstad, Nelson and Coyle are still growing and in need to balance out. Nino too which is super acary part. He looks better at the same age like frames.
It was simple for me. They are both amazing, but Nino has shown a willingness to shoot more. In the top 6, it's that simple for me.
He did score 12, so potting in 8 more shouldn't be a stretch for him at all. But we need to demand more out of guys like Granlund, el Nino and Coyle in the NHL.
The important thing here is his short stint; he could have used more time in the AHL to develop. Especially if we were going to keep at him at center. He has underrated offense but I don't think we'll ever see it out of him because of how this team is built and what we expect from our young players.
And you can determine this how? Coyle has an excellent work ethic. Developing bad habits would be the last thing you would expect from someone like him, even if it's in the AHL. The fact is Coyle could have used more time in the AHL to develop his offense and learn how to score.
I blame Fletcher because that's how he built this team, what players he brought in, what coaches he have hired. This isn't Yeo's fault. Fletcher has a plan and he's given Yeo the players he thinks would fit this plan. If Fletcher wasn't happy with the development of guys like Coyle or Zucker, he should have cleaned out the coaching staff and our development staff. Furthermore, by placing him as a center, he's going to be more defensive responsible as that's how our centers work. By not bringing in another center, Yeo had to figure out which one would work best at center and make do with what he had.
This isn't all on Yeo. If Fletcher wanted more offense, he would have changed the players we were bringing in, the coaching style and our development track.
Wheeler took a while to make it to the NHL. 3 years in college and one year in the USHL. So 4 years. Coyle had 1 year in the EJHL, 1 1/2 years in college, 1/2 year in the QMJHL and half a year in the AHL before beng called up...He should have stayed at least a full year in the AHL and maybe even this year when he struggled.
Coyle was suppose to be a power forward. Not necessarily a goal scorer but more than 10-12 goals that he's potting. 20 goals shouldn't be unreasonable given how athletic and strong Coyle is.
It's no secret that Coyle has been learning on the fly at the NHL level. Big bodied righties with decent skating ability are extremely rare, you guys.
How can you determine that? Neither of us can. I look at Phillips. Another guy that lit up the Q, then blah in the AHL. Everything he did in the Q he could not do in the AHL.
Coyle is an NHLer going to be a solid NHLer. Almost every 18-22 year old can learn something in the AHL. There is no substitute for the NHL.
Everyone can devolp bad habits if they are not exploited. MLB is great way to view this. Some guys can light up AAA but tail off terrible in the majors. I actually play baseball with a few fomer minor leaguers. They strike out more than you would think becasue they are trained to pick up a A-AAA strike zone not a mens rec league zone. They cannot break the habit. Repetion breeds habit. I do not want guys like Coyle getting his reps in, at a level that is beneath him.
Teaching Coyle to score at the AHL level will do just that. Score in the AHL. Not the result i want.
Like Bjugstad from his draft class did? NCAA to NHL. Or Jaden Swartz? Or we could have done what the NYI did with Neslon. Cause it worked wonders for Nino.
Lastly. Who did Coyle take minutes away from? Two years ago. Did we want Konopka and Rupp to see more ice time? Zucker got in 20 and Granlund got in 27. Larsson, Dowell; Brodziak with his 12 points in 48 games and a team worse -18.
Last year should Konopka, Rupp, McC, Veillieux, Dowell, McMillian, Mitchel, and company were all deserving of more ice time at Coyles expense? I do agree Coyles TOI should have given way to Nino and Haula a bit.
I like Haula as a 3rd line C more than Coyle. Why devolp him there?
Coyle at best is/was supposed to be a productive support piece on a scoring line, not the primary scoring threat. The kid is young (as is Nino) and not the kind of talent that goes off the rails from day one in the NHL. 20 goals is very reasonable, and he should have scored more last year but you could say that about almost everyone on the team. I think they'll play with match ups more this season with what should be a really strong 3rd line and that line will produce more at ES.
Phillips problem is skating and just putting it all together on a consistent basis. He also doesn't have a lot to work with in the AHL and he hasn't been given a lot to succeed with. Phillips is much more dependent on his linemates than Coyle.
Then why not bring up Phillips or keep Dumba on the roster? The AHL is a good place for players to find consistency and develop their talent. Look at the Red Wings and some of their prospects that they have had in the AHL (and have done pretty well in the AHL). Tomas Tatar spent 4 years in the AHL with one brief call up before he actually made the roster permanently.
Everyone can devolp bad habits if they are not exploited. MLB is great way to view this. Some guys can light up AAA but tail off terrible in the majors. I actually play baseball with a few fomer minor leaguers. They strike out more than you would think becasue they are trained to pick up a A-AAA strike zone not a mens rec league zone. They cannot break the habit. Repetion breeds habit. I do not want guys like Coyle getting his reps in, at a level that is beneath him. Nyqvist is the same way. 3 years in college, 2 years in the AHL with brief stints in the NHL until he was called up full time this year.
Yes, because that's all he's going to learn. Didn't stop a guy like Nyqvist from going to a 22-23 goal scorer in the AHL to a 28 goal scorer in the NHL. Didn't stop Zucker from scoring in the NHL (though inconsistently but still). It gives the players room to grow and also fail.
Schwartz had a much more linear path but as well, he was drafted more for his offense and didn't need to develop it unlike Coyle. Bjugstad had 3 years in college at a top university before jumping into the NHL. We'll also see how Bjugstad develops.
Schwartz didn't get bounced around from college to the QMJHL to the AHL. He had a much more linear and progressive path. Two years in college, half a season in the AHL and then half a season in the NHL. Coyle went from one year in college to quarter of a season in college to the QMJHL. Then to the AHL then to the NHL.
Coyle was a center. Last year we should have at least brought in a stopgap at center. Cullen (if he wanted it) or anyone really. Coyle was also primarily used at wing two years ago, much different story than last year.
Centers down the middle should have been Koivu - Granlund and Haula but due to injuries, which is pretty normal for the Wild it ended up being Coyle - Haula and Brodziak. At best we should have kept Brodziak at 3rd and brought someone else up from the AHL that was a more natural fit to the the position.
We can only hope but a) this team has never been good at developing young talent and b) we can only hope that they don't keep kicking Coyle back at center. That isn't where he belongs. I do think you're right that he's suppose to be support on a line and a disruptive force but he definitely has underrated offensive ability.
Coyle, hands down.. If he played with Vanek and Pom he would have 20. (not that he will) He is a perfect piece for a line with a center and winger that can score . He is still a child and learning. It is all in the right tutelege
Who would the center on that line be? Coyle? He was terrible at center. If Nino plays on 1 of the top 2 lines I would think he could hit 25-30 goals.
And Coyle was playing with Koivu and Parise most of the time. He had good linemates.
And Coyle was playing with Koivu and Parise most of the time. He had good linemates.
Does TSK realize Coyle spent the vast majority of last season on the wing? After Haula's coming out party, I should think the Coyle at center experiment is over barring a crazy rash of injuries down the middle.
And guys picked at the end of the first round and later always have leaks in their game. If Coyle was supposed to breeze his way to 20 goals within 3-4 years of being drafted, he would've been selected 20 picks earlier with his huge frame. Lol @ this "developing offense" hogwash. Dude has always been widely known to be a raw, grinder type with just enough offensive ability to keep him from being labeled a permanent bottom-sixer.
And guys picked at the end of the first round and later always have leaks in their game. If Coyle was supposed to breeze his way to 20 goals within 3-4 years of being drafted, he would've been selected 20 picks earlier with his huge frame. Lol @ this "developing offense" hogwash. Dude has always been widely known to be a raw, grinder type with just enough offensive ability to keep him from being labeled a permanent bottom-sixer.
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