OT: Covid-19 (Part 56) Convoy Edition

[Doc McKenna]

If 100% of people are vaccinated a passport is redundant. Food for thought.

In any case, the longer this drags on in terms of hospitalization rates the longer the need for vaccination and vaccine passports exist.

I cannot predict the future but I hope that next year we’re vaccinated and have enough exposure to Covid itself to do away with this passport.

I’d be shocked if passport is gone this year.

One underlying issue is bill gates and the IP holders for the vaccines saying last year that they couldn't release the government funded vaccines construction to third world countries to produce a generic version because covid would be over before they could have produced any. Took them one year to make the vaccine and its been a year since. I think they could have been producing a cheaper vaccine. Pfizer is charging 36 a dose, it started in the lower 20's but they have escalated the price "because of demand" most other vax are in the 10-15 range, and J&J only required one dose.

With this problem of developing countries not having access. Covid can continue to circulate and mutate. Currently they sit at just 10 percent receiving their first dose, nevermind more than one. This leaves a massive amount of people who will die for no reason(even if death rate is very low) , and allow the virus to continue to find new hosts, mutate and start all over again.

And here we are a year later and developing nations have not received even the paltry numbers that Gates himself said would be provided.

What does this have to do with the convoy...welp we keep having to lockdown because 1/3 of the world has next to nothing to protect them or downgrade the severity and tranmission. SO around and around we go. These convoy people want to make a difference, start by demanding developing countries get priority access to the next round of vaccines. That would help as a circuit breaker. But I don't see them as the most forward looking people so I don't expect that thought to have even crossed their mind.

 

[Andy]

As easy as it is to poke fun and laugh at this, it's also very alarming. It's a fringe minority of Canadians but nurturing stuff like this is very very dangerous. I used to live in downtown Ottawa for years and seeing the streets polluted with these yahoos, disrespecting sacred grounds and monuments leaves a pit in my stomach.

Get used to it. The internet has lifted the lid on fringe groups and algorithms which love to promote outrage bring those fringe voices into everyday public discussions.

prior to social media, it was hard to find these fringe ideas. You’d have to actively search for them. Algorithms get rid of that effort and put it right in our faces. We’re increasingly seeing the normalization and the proliferation of fringe ideas and it’s poisoning civic discourse and society.

along with climate change and democratic backsliding, the normalization of fringe and extreme ideas is one of the biggest issues of this generation.

 

[SlappyHabby]

vaccines have absolutely assisted in preventing death, and the passports have had some positive effect the spread. Both measures have effectively reduced deaths.

The claim that they don't work to reduce deaths is objectively false.

That you don't like them, don't think they are as effective as other measures, or don't think reducing deaths is a worthwhile goal of those particular health measures... well, frankly, given the incoherence of many of your long posts, I can't say I do understand your concern with them.

Politics and public health are two different things. Conflating the two suggests a poor understanding of how they operate. Yes, they intersect. Yes, they influence each other. No, they are not one & same, nor can they be discussed that way if coherent analysis is the goal.

The vast differences in death rates between Canada, which has had slightly to aggressively more restrictive vaccine related restrictions (depending on province & state), and the US, which has in many states opted for lax vaccine related restrictions (& despite the most expensive, and some would argue, medically advanced health system, has some of the worst infection and death rates even compared to far poorer nations) is a very strong area of evidence highlighting that preventing death is better achieved via stronger vaccine regulations.

Jumping to other areas, like the impact of mask wearing on the population is a separate issue... and frankly, I think you are heavily misinformed based on your comments...

Bottom line. If you do think that reducing the preventable risk of death from covid is an important objective, vaccination and vaccine related restrictions in response to surges in the spread & accompanying hospitalizations, remain pretty much the best public health levers available.

No credible public health expert has suggested otherwise to my knowledge.

You ought to read the "Great Barrington Declaration", which is easily found on google and goes into detail on what I agree would be a far more practical, logical and effective method in dealing with the pandemic then what our inept and incompetent politicians have implemented so far.

If you haven’t read it I recommend that you do, and you can share your thoughts on the topic afterwards.

As for the masks, if you have other information or sources as to their effectiveness and benefits that can clearly demonstrate that I am wrong then do share.

I’m not interested in being right but rather to know what is true, and to implement solutions that are actually effective and not merely expedient and often illogical and incoherent.

Anyway that’s it for me tonight as I’m logging off, got one of my lovers coming over so I’ve got more interesting and stimulating things to look forward to

 

[Andy]

Remember, one of the reasons this was supposedly held was so that people wouldn't be "forced" from their jobs for not getting vaxed...

Mission accomplished. These guys are going to get fired all on their own.

Maybe I misread the mandate, but I thought that cross boarder truckers either get vaccinated or have to quarantine + test when crossing borders. So I’m not sure if the dichotomy is get vaccinated or get fired.

or maybe the mandate has expanded?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

As easy as it is to poke fun and laugh at this, it's also very alarming. It's a fringe minority of Canadians but nurturing stuff like this is very very dangerous. I used to live in downtown Ottawa for years and seeing the streets polluted with these yahoos, disrespecting sacred grounds and monuments leaves a pit in my stomach.

Agreed. It's sad to see.

It is of course, a clown show. This is not a demonstration on the pandemic or mandates. If it ever was, it has morphed into something else entirely. And that is really unfortunate. As much as I agree with passports and mandates, I fully support people protesting the measures and launching legal challenges. I'd expect it in a democracy. That's how the system works. And protesting is part of that.

Then you see... this. It's an embarrassment.

Maybe I misread the mandate, but I thought that cross boarder truckers either get vaccinated or have to quarantine + test when crossing borders. So I’m not sure if the dichotomy is get vaccinated or get fired.

or maybe the mandate has expanded?

Yeah, they'd probably just be re-assigned. Either way the States have closed the border so the whole protest is a waste of time from that perspective anyway.

But to see Nazi and Confederate flags being waved around is freaking sad - and no, it doesn't matter what context it's in.

 

[Doc McKenna]

https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Do...-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf

COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations, and Deaths by Vaccination Status
January 26, 2022
Summary
Unvaccinated 12-34 year-olds in Washington are
• 2 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 year-olds.
• 5 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 yearolds.
Unvaccinated 35-64 year-olds are
• 3 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 year-olds.
• 7 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 yearolds.
Unvaccinated 65+ year-olds are
• 4 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.
• 7 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.
• 11 times more likely to die of COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds

So the vaccines are doing their job. Its not full proof, and isn't meant to be.

 

[salbutera]

Well, at least he put something on....but it is today for sure

Pls NO MORE! Killing my appetite ..

 

[Foppberg]

Agreed. It's sad to see.

It is of course, a clown show. This is not a demonstration on the pandemic or mandates. If it ever was, it has morphed into something else entirely. And that is really unfortunate. As much as I agree with passports and mandates, I fully support people protesting the measures and launching legal challenges. I'd expect it in a democracy. That's how the system works. And protesting is part of that.

Then you see... this. It's an embarrassment.

Yup. Social media is one of the worst things to happen to society in a long time. Now more than any other time in human history, people can easily group together over a common interest or opinion. And on the surface that sounds like a great thing, but it's a double edged sword with one side of it being very sharp.

Then you add in corrupt politicians, sociopaths, extremists etc etc pushing the narratives and it quickly becomes terrifying. (Mod)

 

[Doc McKenna]

Some trucker convoy organizers have history of white nationalism, racism - National | Globalnews.ca

So... it's the media's fault for reporting this? They are the ones "dividing" people... not the organizers of this convoy themselves?

There is a large group of people heading to protest the Nation's capital. If there are tweets threatening violence you don't think this should be reported?

It's great that you met with a few truck drivers and they said all the right things. Hopefully it will be peaceful and we can all move on. But there's no responsible news station in the world that should ignore the incendiary rhetoric that's come from some of the people headed to Ottawa. They have a RESPONSIBILITY to report this to the public.

(Edit: Sorry, I think I confused you with another poster who'd met with some protesters passing through. I don't think that was actually you. In any event, the point still stands.)

This is the canadian version of Jan 6 in the states. What do you think would be these peoples reaction to something from the other side. What if they hung a gay pride flag on Terry fox? What if "commies" had parked at the cenotaph? I was always taught that putting oneself in anther shoes can reframe your perspective. This is an abject lesson in that very thing.

 

[Andy]

This is the canadian version of Jan 6 in the states. What do you think would be these peoples reaction to something from the other side. What if they hung a gay pride flag on Terry fox? What if "commies" had parked at the cenotaph? I was always taught that putting oneself in anther shoes can reframe your perspective. This is an abject lesson in that very thing.

How the hell is this a Jan 6 moment? Jan 6 was an insurrection egged on by the president of the usa who along with his cronies falsely promoted the idea that election was stolen for two months. The stated plan of a group of those insurrectionists was to hang the VP and strong arm Congress into overturning a Democratic election

the trucker protestors are a fringe minority who have to decide between vaccines and testing + quarantining when they cross the border

 

[Natey]

So police removed the signs, flag, and hat from the Terry Fox statue. And protestors covered the statue again, apparently.

If you check my posts, I haven't commented much on the convoy because I just haven't been following it and don't really care.

However, this is completely and utterly unacceptable. Just f***ing brutal.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Pls NO MORE! Killing my appetite ..

I for one welcome our right wing G-string overlords

 

[dinodebino]

It seemed to have gone OK, except for the Terry Fox statue desecration. You don’t touch ANYTHING related to Terry. I eyed that statue every day I went to work downtown Ottawa (bus stop as droppping me right there). I loved that man.
Twitter has lit up with comments from Canadians here and abroad. Americans are like : huh? It’s just a flag, a hat and a sign on a statue. I guess they don’t know about Terry.
I don’t jnow if the majority of folks are still there or back at the Rideau Centre lol.

 

[Doc McKenna]

How the hell is this a Jan 6 moment? Jan 6 was an insurrection egged on by the president of the usa who along with his cronies falsely promoted the idea that election was stolen for two months. The stated plan of a group of those insurrectionists was to hang the VP and strong arm Congress into overturning a Democratic election

the trucker protestors are a fringe minority who have to decide between vaccines and testing + quarantining when they cross the border

I guess you didn't notice a pile of people descending upon the capital saying there is treason? Happens to have been organized by a politcal leader. Or are you just ignoring that. That is why I said this is the canadian version of Jan 6. There are even people saying it can only be solved with bullets. So excuse me, but YES there are similarities. Downplaying this does not change that.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Get used to it. The internet has lifted the lid on fringe groups and algorithms which love to promote outrage bring those fringe voices into everyday public discussions.

prior to social media, it was hard to find these fringe ideas. You’d have to actively search for them. Algorithms get rid of that effort and put it right in our faces. We’re increasingly seeing the normalization and the proliferation of fringe ideas and it’s poisoning civic discourse and society.

along with climate change and democratic backsliding, the normalization of fringe and extreme ideas is one of the biggest issues of this generation.

Are you claiming climate change isn't happening?

 

[Natey]

I for one welcome our right wing G-string overlords

He's been found!

 

[Doc McKenna]

Yup. Social media is one of the worst things to happen to society in a long time. Now more than any other time in human history, people can easily group together over a common interest or opinion. And on the surface that sounds like a great thing, but it's a double edged sword with one side of it being very sharp.

Then you add in corrupt politicians, sociopaths, extremists etc etc pushing the narratives and it quickly becomes terrifying. (Mod)

My sister went from watching Carl Sagans cosmos on PBS with me when we were teens to being a flat earther(briefly) because of the conspiracy channels and their half reported science and bogus claims. Now she is doubting evolution, ever since the great satan in china is out to destroy god...she was an athiest at one point. She literally asks me to undo what she is seeing, but it must be true because this channel claimed it.

Can't even make this up. I told her she needed to question their assertions. Its good to be a skeptic, but you need to question the questions raised and the sources that you are supporting. Confirmation bias is a common problem.

 

[Andy]

Are you claiming climate change isn't happening?

It is happening! I’m saying dealing with it will be a challenge because of all the skeptics

 

[McGuires Corndog]

He's been found!

He’s apparently very confident and not afraid of the cold.

 

[Miller Time]

You ought to read the "Great Barrington Declaration", which is easily found on google and goes into detail on what I agree would be a far more practical, logical and effective method in dealing with the pandemic then what our inept and incompetent politicians have implemented so far.

If you haven’t read it I recommend that you do, and you can share your thoughts on the topic afterwards.

As for the masks, if you have other information or sources as to their effectiveness and benefits that can clearly demonstrate that I am wrong then do share.

I’m not interested in being right but rather to know what is true, and to implement solutions that are actually effective and not merely expedient and often illogical and incoherent.

Anyway that’s it for me tonight as I’m logging off, got one of my lovers coming over so I’ve got more interesting and stimulating things to look forward to

Im not in the least surprised that you reference the Barrington declaration lol

Nuff said right there.

Enjoy your evening, and the good health you and your companion hopefully possess (& owe more than you seem able to appreciate to decades of public health decisions that were made, and followed, despite the ongoing selfish outcries from people who forget that our species is one that can't survive if it prioritizes the individual at the expense of the community).

 

[Foppberg]

My sister went from watching Carl Sagans cosmos on PBS with me when we were teens to being a flat earther(briefly) because of the conspiracy channels and their half reported science and bogus claims. Now she is doubting evolution, ever since the great satan in china is out to destroy god...she was an athiest at one point. She literally asks me to undo what she is seeing, but it must be true because this channel claimed it.

Can't even make this up. I told her she needed to question their assertions. Its good to be a skeptic, but you need to question the questions raised and the sources that you are supporting. Confirmation bias is a common problem.

Yup. It's just one big self sustaining ecosystem. You're never going to convince people to change their minds, all you can do is try to have a conversation. But that is harder than ever to do because people are so entrenched on their "teams" side where even a simple question is perceived as an attack.

 

[Doc McKenna]

It is happening! I’m saying dealing with it will be a challenge because of all the skeptics

Oh the way it formatted on my PC it didn't look like that. I got into it with one of these convoy supporters yesterday about climate change. Said it was a governments hoax and just a way of taxing us and using that money to hire more "scientists" to make up false reports to remove our freedoms.

I pointed out(and linked) the 1978 internal Exxon document on climate change by their very own scientists. Though at the time it was called the greenhouse effect. Never heard back afterwords. Doubt I changed their mind. Also related to Carl Sagan in the episode heaven and hell. That episode is on venus and Sagan makes a point about how Venus is what runaway greenhouse effect can turn into.

A little is good and allows for an atmosphere, a little too much and you have a bone shattering mess that won't support life as we know it. This is all the way back to 1980. Its not like science hasn't known this and been ringing the alarm bell for half a century. Its just vested powers want us to ignore it and spend an inordinate amount of money to muddy the waters.

This 1985 congressional hearing replicates much of the info that was said in the episode I pointed to.

 

[Per Sjoblom]

Are you talking about the people sending death threats to journalist, scientist and politicians?
Are yout alking about the decency of not parading with a ''f*** XXXXXX'' on your T-shirt, Truck or whatever?
Are you talking about those who wants to hang people, politicians, scientist?

No one is talking about concentrations camps....others that those who are fear mongering.
That would bethe same who actually live that psychosis

The pscychosis has been there before the pandemics. Poeple thinking politicians are part of a secret pedophile network, satanists or reptilian. Thinking that immigrant are rapist and murderer......

Mask are mind-control device or the Covid vaccine will all kills everyone in 5 to 10 years.
Virus doesn't exist and don't worry, after the Elections no one would talk about it cause it's fake.
That millions of childrens diseappear and it's because of the ''Left''.......that Antifa or FBI created Jan. 6th.
That medias are ''the ennemy of the people''.
Who's running around with confederate flags?

In Germany.....it was a fringe a minority who overtook the majority. It was those who were radicalize by years of being lied to about conspiracies theories about the government and ready to believe anything other than the truth cause you know, their leader kept calling the medias ''lying press'' so they had to turn to alternate medias, control by them and could now say all the indecency they wanted.

Which side is living and being fed conspiracies theories daily?

Most of us only wants to get out of this shit as fast as possible and wants to put the chances on our side and do whatever we can so we can put this behind us at all level of society.....on the other side, they want to do nothing cause they prefer conspiracies theories of Big pharma, vaccine will all kill us, 5G, aliminiun, microchips, lying medias and evil governments. They live in fear, and afraid enough to be radicalize.

Now tell me.....who's living in a psychosis?
Who's having dark feelings and trying to overthrow government?

No, not all unvaccinated are like that.
But a big portion of them are either them or influence by them.

Woman arrested for threatening to bring ‘every single gun loaded’ to school board meeting.

 

[Licou]

Ok this is a run by post, I will not answer any replies.

I think the ottawa protests are a bit silly, but I of course support their right to be there. Those that remember me as a poster know that I am strongly behind the vaccination effort.

That being said, what I am reading from "my side" is a bit nauseating. It reminds me of all the nasty shit I was reading about the BLM protests, that were putting all of the protesters in the same boat as the rioters...

Seriously guys, is it that hard to understand that we can't paint these kinds of movements with a wide brush. Heck, there isn't any violence so far!

f*** guys,it's normal to disagree with people. It's normal to feel that you are the ones that right, but all of your insults are seriously too much.

That's all I will say, I felt like I needed to say it.

Carry on.

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

At least his toes will stay warm.

Potential bonus, his balls will freeze off and he won't be able to procreate.