OT: Covid-19 (Part 42) All Night Long

[1909]

about two third of the adult population either got a first dose of has an appointment. Interesting data and graphics from this french article from La Presse : Vaccination | Le Québec se rapproche à grands pas de son objectif

Montrealers; WAKE UP !

 

[waffledave]

While I usually agree with you this time I have to disagree.

There is something saying you can’t treat them like shit. Basic human decency? Equal rights?

It’s been a long year and change but the sacrifices you made are for the greater good, let’s not be dicks now. You’re frustrated, I get it but let’s not get carried away.

Certain countries may prevent foreigners who aren’t vaccinated and that’s one thing because it’s not over and variants exist but in everyday life? Whatever. Let them do what they want. 90k doses given(1st and 2nd combined) yesterday and were worried about the rest?

Keep them coming. We’re in good shape. I’m not worried about the exceptions. They mean nothing in big scheme of things. People are dying to book slots to get the vaccine and the slots will be filled.

Like I said, antivaxers are not a protected class, so this is not a human rights thing. They are choosing to be like this, knowing full well there are consequences. Just like I know there are consequences for being a dick to people. To me, human decency is not being a freeloading parasite trying to piggy back off herd immunity as we return to normalcy. There are people who can't get vaccinated who are actively hurt by those who refuse to be. Where's the human decency argument there?

My kid is too young to be vaccinated. If she gets COVID it's most likely to be from someone who refused the vaccine. So, I'm sorry, but I have zero patience for these people. They are a detriment to society. And I am far from the only one who will feel this way. Antivaxers were not born this way, it is an active choice.

 

[Crusher117]

Montrealers; WAKE UP !

We will. The youth just waiting their turn. Monteregie Laval MTL has way more young people then some of the regions. Next week, I except appointments numbers to blow up.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

At the end of the day, Québec will hit between 80 to 90% vaxxed. We will enjoy normalcy again and anti vaxxers will have some restrictions that they'll have to deal with. (Concerts, nightclubs and travel)

If they do it’s temporary.

At a certain point let’s not get carried away either. If we’re 90% vaccinated we have to accept there will always be some risk.

I can’t foresee restrictions on anyone long term. This vaccine vs antivaxxer talk is more of a fantasy land. They’ll live with risk, that simple.

 

[Crusher117]

If they do it’s temporary.

At a certain point let’s not get carried away either. If we’re 90% vaccinated we have to accept there will always be some risk.

I can’t foresee restrictions on anyone long term. This vaccine vs antivaxxer talk is more of a fantasy land. They’ll live with risk, that simple.

I agree but if clubs and concerts are back in October once 75% have double jabs. I can see them restricting access to none vaxxed people until 2022 when we will have data and confirmation that the virus with behind us. We will have to wait to see the effects of the variants and a potential booster shot before we lift all restrictions and masks.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I agree but if clubs and concerts are back in October once 75% have double jabs. I can see them restricting access to none vaxxed people until 2022 when we will have data and confirmation that the virus with behind us. We will have to wait to see the effects of the variants and a potential booster shot before we lift all restrictions and masks.

were already 5 months in, 2022 is in 7 months only... the vaccine passport is still not officially a thing, and given it's decided by politicians it wont be by then either.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Like I said, antivaxers are not a protected class, so this is not a human rights thing. They are choosing to be like this, knowing full well there are consequences. Just like I know there are consequences for being a dick to people. To me, human decency is not being a freeloading parasite trying to piggy back off herd immunity as we return to normalcy. There are people who can't get vaccinated who are actively hurt by those who refuse to be. Where's the human decency argument there?

My kid is too young to be vaccinated. If she gets COVID it's most likely to be from someone who refused the vaccine. So, I'm sorry, but I have zero patience for these people. They are a detriment to society. And I am far from the only one who will feel this way. Antivaxers were not born this way, it is an active choice.

I hope the best for your child and loved ones, lets be clear on that and make sure there's no confusion.

I think you're letting fear control you. Like I said, its been a long time and its frustrating but anti vaxxers aren't holding us back. We do not need 100% of people to be vaccinated. We are already seeing the benefits with ~40% only getting their first dose. This isn't an all or nothing.

In the older groups 90% of people took the vaccine and eventually the next groups will follow.

A concern that is swept under the rug is people not taking their 2nd dose. In the US many people took the first one and were no shows for round 2 and they were much closer(not 4 months apart). If those pro-vaccination follow the procedure and take both that 90% will crush the few who don't want it.

Either way, again...appointments are being taken, we had people on this forum refused several times for vaccines because they are attempting to handle the demand and supply concerns and we're worried about the few?

As long as an anti vaxxer doesn't make 20 appointments and not show he/she isn't preventing anyone from moving on. In fact, one less dose for them means someone who WANTS it gets it faster. Win-Win.

 

[ECWHSWI]

If they do it’s temporary.

At a certain point let’s not get carried away either. If we’re 90% vaccinated we have to accept there will always be some risk.

I can’t foresee restrictions on anyone long term. This vaccine vs antivaxxer talk is more of a fantasy land. They’ll live with risk, that simple.

Voila!

 

[LyricalLyricist]

were already 5 months in, 2022 is in 7 months only... the vaccine passport is still not officially a thing, and given it's decided by politicians it wont be by then either.

It depends what the data shows us. If there's a risk for variants or whatever they might ease people back into normalcy.

For example, many companies want their employees back at work 5 days a week but might adapt a hybrid approach to start. Restaurants might still space tables apart. Servers might still wear masks.

This is all dependent on how slow or fast the spread drops.

You're right though, we're almost halfway through the year and nothing yet but all it takes is some big time variant to appear for people to put their guard up(and rightfully so) to continue some measures temporarily.

We'll see but I would not want anything permanent. I think its a violation of human rights.

 

[Crusher117]

were already 5 months in, 2022 is in 7 months only... the vaccine passport is still not officially a thing, and given it's decided by politicians it wont be by then either.

Covid passport for travel will definitely be a thing. And I can't see high crowded events not impose their own rules. I know nightclub owners who do not want to risk an outbreak and want people who can't get vaxxed for medical reasons to feel safe. They will impose their own door regulations.

 

[ECWHSWI]

It depends what the data shows us. If there's a risk for variants or whatever they might ease people back into normalcy.

For example, many companies want their employees back at work 5 days a week but might adapt a hybrid approach to start. Restaurants might still space tables apart. Servers might still wear masks.

This is all dependent on how slow or fast the spread drops.

You're right though, we're almost halfway through the year and nothing yet but all it takes is some big time variant to appear for people to put their guard up(and rightfully so) to continue some measures temporarily.

We'll see but I would not want anything permanent. I think its a violation of human rights.

Yup, was just pointing out the fact that we're almost halfway trough 2021 already so the "until 2022" (more complex stuff) will happen anyway. till then we'll see daily/weekly adjustment like we've seen already.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Covid passport for travel will definitely be a thing. And I can't see high crowded events not impose their own rules. I know nightclub owners who do not want to risk an outbreak and want people who can't get vaxxed for medical reasons to feel safe. They will impose their own door regulations.

Politicians will try to avoid it IMO, they want all the votes so they talk like they want to but will not do it, I mean, they want antivaxxers and other idiots votes too you know

as for events (concerts, clubs) producers, after 3 or 4 months of below 200 cases and 0 deaths, lots of them will drop their costly measures.

 

[OnTheRun]

Politicians will try to avoid it IMO, they want all the votes so they talk like they want to but will not do it, I mean, they want antivaxxers and other idiots votes too you know

Travelers don't get to vote.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Covid passport for travel will definitely be a thing. And I can't see high crowded events not impose their own rules. I know nightclub owners who do not want to risk an outbreak and want people who can't get vaxxed for medical reasons to feel safe. They will impose their own door regulations.

I wonder if you're allowed to?

If it's not a government imposed law, can you actually tell someone they need to be vaccinated?

I can see them saying you need proof of recent test though. Sort of like "Vaccinated and/or proof of negative" like they've done for some earlier sports gatherings but to go the 100% vaccinated route? I'm not sure that would pass.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Travelers don't get to vote.

Prediction : for now no travelling, then some type of verification system (vaccine passport or something) to allow only vaccinated people to travel... and in two or three years after COVID is behind us, vaccine passport will also be a thing of the past.

 

[Crusher117]

I wonder if you're allowed to?

If it's not a government imposed law, can you actually tell someone they need to be vaccinated?

I can see them saying you need proof of recent test though. Sort of like "Vaccinated and/or proof of negative" like they've done for some earlier sports gatherings but to go the 100% vaccinated route? I'm not sure that would pass.

I dont see why they wouldn't be allowed. Everyone gonna be maskless and shoulder to shoulder. Business have a right to refuse service to anyone. I'm sure they'll be allowed to do it at first under a safety for patrons clause or something.
If a club gets an outbreak then it will need to close down a bit and lose revenue. After a year and half of being closed, I can't see any club owner wanting to go through an outbreak closure.

Politicians will try to avoid it IMO, they want all the votes so they talk like they want to but will not do it, I mean, they want antivaxxers and other idiots votes too you know

as for events (concerts, clubs) producers, after 3 or 4 months of below 200 cases and 0 deaths, lots of them will drop their costly measures.

Like I said. 2022. But I can see some restrictions at first just so we make sure this behind us. But I agree. Politicians will definitely want to avoid it.

But Canada will have mandatory vaccination for tourists just like we will have to be vaccinated to go to a foreign country.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I dont see why they wouldn't be allowed. Everyone gonna be maskless and shoulder to shoulder. Business have a right to refuse service to anyone. I'm sure they'll be allowed to do it at first under a safety for patrons clause or something.
If a club gets an outbreak then it will need to close down a bit and lose revenue. After a year and half of being closed, I can't see any club owner wanting to go through an outbreak closure.

Like I said. 2022. But I can see some restrictions at first just so we make sure this behind us. But I agree. Politicians will definitely want to avoid it.

But Canada will have mandatory vaccination for tourists just like we will have to be vaccinated to go to a foreign country.

there's countries who are dying to get tourists back right now as it's a huge part of their economy, for quite a few the cost is high enough they'll ease up measures to get all the tourists they can. They'll take the risk.

 

[A Loyal Dog]

I’m still worried about going out even after gotten my first vaccine. I haven’t seen any concrete studies that show I’m almost certainly safe from death. What if I get virus today or tomorrow (God forbid) or I get the variant this week (it’s almost 3 weeks since I got vaccinated)? I wish there would be some numbers. A lot of my friends who got vaccinated are ready to go back to normal, go to cinema, want to go to the states, etc.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I’m still worried about going out even after gotten my first vaccine. I haven’t seen any concrete studies that show I’m almost certainly safe from death. What if I get virus today or tomorrow (God forbid) or I get the variant this week (it’s almost 3 weeks since I got vaccinated)? I wish there would be some numbers. A lot of my friends who got vaccinated are ready to go back to normal, go to cinema, want to go to the states, etc.

100% certainty does not exists.

being vaccinated increases your odds (by a huge %) of 1. not getting covid 2. resisting covid if you get it.

If you have a "condition" talk to a doc so you know what you should or shouldn't do.

 

[OnTheRun]

Prediction : for now no travelling, then some type of verification system (vaccine passport or something) to allow only vaccinated people to travel... and in two or three years after COVID is behind us, vaccine passport will also be a thing of the past.

It's very likely you would need to be vaccinated to gain entry in the country you are visiting, since mandatory vaccination can be imposed on foreigners anywhere without causing constitutional issues.

Whether or not a citizen will be required to be vaccinated to leave his country of origin... well that will depend on the constitution (or whatever for the countries without such thing) of each country.

 

[A Loyal Dog]

100% certainty does not exists.

being vaccinated increases your odds (by a huge %) of 1. not getting covid 2. resisting covid if you get it.

If you have a "condition" talk to a doc so you know what you should or shouldn't do.

I understand that, but is this data for those who were fully vaccinated only or also those with only one dose? Variants vs first dose?

 

[OnTheRun]

I understand that, but is this data for those who were fully vaccinated only or also those with only one dose? Variants vs first dose?

Most studies are ongoing and kinda incomplete at this point if you are looking for rock solid data. But it's still look pretty damn good.

Interim Estimates of Vaccine Effectiveness of BNT162b2 and mRNA
Effectiveness of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine Among

Maybe Pfizer started to share the data they got from Israel, you could look for that too.

 

[Revansky]

I understand that, but is this data for those who were fully vaccinated only or also those with only one dose? Variants vs first dose?

There's a lot of different number that are thrown. For Pfizer, it seems to be between 70-80 % efficacy to prevent infection after two to three weeks of the first dose. Maybe it's lower against some variants but the predominant strain for now (the britain one) doesn't seem to lower the vaccine efficacy that much.

A study from South Korea report 86 % efficacy to prevent infection in people aged 60 and older. Pfizer, AstraZeneca vaccines 87% effective in 60+ age group after one dose: data

If you're outdoor and try to keep the 2meters as much as you can, i think the risk is minimal to get infected.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I’m still worried about going out even after gotten my first vaccine. I haven’t seen any concrete studies that show I’m almost certainly safe from death. What if I get virus today or tomorrow (God forbid) or I get the variant this week (it’s almost 3 weeks since I got vaccinated)? I wish there would be some numbers. A lot of my friends who got vaccinated are ready to go back to normal, go to cinema, want to go to the states, etc.

It may be unpleasant to hear but apart from the vaccine itself your best bet is to improve your own immune system.

 

[King Makar19]

Went to soccer pratice for 3 and 5 years old in Longueuil...

No bathroom avalaible... what a freaking joke...