- Jun 24, 2012
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The way some have described it, you'd need a working phone number on your exemption letter where a representative of your employer is available to answer their questions otherwise you get ticketed.
OT: Covid-19 (Part 36) Closing Time
- Thread starter Lshap
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The way some have described it, you'd need a working phone number on your exemption letter where a representative of your employer is available to answer their questions otherwise you get ticketed.
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
Ridiculous how they are delaying the 2nd dose. Unless the manufacturer is saying we can do this, I don't think it's responsible. Already the first lady who got vaccinated, who never got her 2nd dose, got COVID. Apparently it wasn't too bad for her so maybe it helped her fight it off. But they need to follow the f***ing instructions from the vaccine creators... I mean come on.
My understanding is ventilation systems are different than simple air purifiers you can buy from Canadian Tire. No studies were listed as far as I know. It was just a quote in an article, no details beyond that.
From what I gathered, getting the first dose still significantly lowers the impact of the virus. Doing that way allows them to vaccinate way more people quicker.
The developers are advising to get the 2nd dose within the 42 days because that is what they studied. As they explained today, according to the studies, the efficacy of the first dose is still very strong by day 42, and based on all the other vaccines available (not just covid) there's no reason to believe there would be a sudden drop within the next few days.
For them the gamble is well worth taking if it means getting way more people vaccinated with the first dose.
Agree or disagree, there's at least some logic to this decision, contrary to others.
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
If the scientists behind the vaccine are saying it's fine, that's one thing. But up till now I had heard they were saying not to deviate from the recommended schedule.
Yes and they explained why. Their studies are capped at 42 days, so they recommend sticking to that.
But public health's decision to go beyond is logical, and as I said, a gamble they deem worth taking.
I've been reading up on the vaccine a bit more, I'm going to write what I understood here. @Treb feel free to correct or elaborate.
As we all have come to hear, this is an mRNA vaccine. mRNA is the messenger to tell a cell what protein to make. What makes COVID such a nasty virus is the protein that surrounds the virus is what it uses to infect your body by entering the cells. Back to the vaccine: the mRNA tells the body to code this COVID protein (not the virus, just the protein that surrounds the virus) which then alerts your immune system to react to this foreign protein and attack it. You may as a result have symptoms like fever, or muscle soreness but that is only a response from your immune system to destroy the protein, not the virus since we are not injected with the virus.
Like we have been accustom to hearing, once the body learns to fight off this protein, and it will take time once vaccinated for the body to be able to learn and adapt to fighting the protein, it will then be able to quickly recognize the COVID protein should we be infected with COVID and quickly fight the protein before it spreads to far and fast into our bodies.
I think this is where the two shots comes from, is that after one time, your body learns to fight it, but the memory of it isn't that strong to fight COVID if you get infected 3 months later (maybe due to the infectiousness of COVID, this I don't know). By having a second shot, having a "refresher" course on how to fight the protein, it leaves a longer, more lasting impression on how to fight the protein. If your body can fight the protein, the virus doesn't have a chance to replicate within your body.
Treb, can you explain why we are still contagious with COVID after the vaccine if the purpose of fighting the protein is to not allow the virus to setup shop in your body. How is it able to jump to another host?
As we all have come to hear, this is an mRNA vaccine. mRNA is the messenger to tell a cell what protein to make. What makes COVID such a nasty virus is the protein that surrounds the virus is what it uses to infect your body by entering the cells. Back to the vaccine: the mRNA tells the body to code this COVID protein (not the virus, just the protein that surrounds the virus) which then alerts your immune system to react to this foreign protein and attack it. You may as a result have symptoms like fever, or muscle soreness but that is only a response from your immune system to destroy the protein, not the virus since we are not injected with the virus.
Like we have been accustom to hearing, once the body learns to fight off this protein, and it will take time once vaccinated for the body to be able to learn and adapt to fighting the protein, it will then be able to quickly recognize the COVID protein should we be infected with COVID and quickly fight the protein before it spreads to far and fast into our bodies.
I think this is where the two shots comes from, is that after one time, your body learns to fight it, but the memory of it isn't that strong to fight COVID if you get infected 3 months later (maybe due to the infectiousness of COVID, this I don't know). By having a second shot, having a "refresher" course on how to fight the protein, it leaves a longer, more lasting impression on how to fight the protein. If your body can fight the protein, the virus doesn't have a chance to replicate within your body.
Treb, can you explain why we are still contagious with COVID after the vaccine if the purpose of fighting the protein is to not allow the virus to setup shop in your body. How is it able to jump to another host?
Sounds about right.
The contagion after vaccination, if it exists we don't know yet, would be due to the virus being able to establish a beachhead in our body and replicate for a bit before being fought off.
If our body can fight off the virus before it establishes a beachhead, it has what we call a sterilizing immunity.
Reports out of maimonides is that patients who have been vacinated, are now testing positive for COVID. What are the tests looking for? The virus, the protein, both or none?
Paddyjack
Registered User
The tests are usually targetting the polymerase gene of Covid, while the vaccine is the spike messenger. So the positivity does not come from the vaccine. However it may take 2 weeks to build up an immunity after a vaccine so there is a chance these residents were infected after receiving it.
The test is detecting viral RNA. It's not going to react to the vaccine RNA.
These patients received only 1 dose so their immunity was not as good and they were infected sometime within the first 28 days so even the protection from the first dose was not all built up as immunity takes time.
LeHab
Registered User
- Aug 31, 2005
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At 2 weeks Israel is seeing 50% reduction:
Initial Israeli data: First Pfizer shot curbs infections by 50% after 14 days
Immunity continues to increase past 2 weeks as well.
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
Realistically if the vaccine was truly not effective we would be hearing about it a lot more from the US, Israel and UK, where millions have received it, and not just from a Quebec elder care facility. Testing positive for COVID also doesn't necessarily mean COVID infection, depending on the test. And as has been said, vaccine immunity takes time.
We also know you can still catch it despite the vaccine. It's meant to diminish the impact on body though and from the sound of it, none of those who got reinfected had to go to hospital. So now they have vaccine and the antibodies...best protection possible.
They already had the antibodies from the vaccine. Their infection is kinda like getting the second dose. Wouldn't recommend it that way though.
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
One of my employees got it. He's a good dude, I see him trying to power through it. He is really suffering though. Young guy in his 30s, he was a semipro athlete, still tight with a lot of the Habs, but changed careers. He's in good shape but COVID seems to have really kicked his ass. He said he has been debating going to the hospital. Worried about him.
When you get the vaccine, your body immediately goes into defense mode attacking the protein that envelops the virus. The body then creates antibodies to the protein? (From a quick google search I read that antibodies are Y shaped proteins that bind together to block viruses, bacteria, fungi or parasites; no where does it mention foreign protein)
The antibodies that we have been talking since the beginning of this pandemic, is it to protect against the virus itself, or this protein?
Have they been able to do any research on asymptomatic cases?
Antibodies bind to their antigen which is usually a foreign protein.
The spike protein is what allows the virus to enter the cells. If your antibodies neutralize the spikes on the virus, it cannot enter the cells anymore and becomes harmless and disposed off.
My question is really about the antibodies. Are we creating antibodies against the spike protein? Is that a thing? Protein blocking other proteins? I'm good at understanding when reading things, but I don't always recognize the mechanisms.
You caught my post before the edit but yes the vaccine generates antibody against the spike protein.
Protein blocking/inhibiting other proteins is a very common thing in biology.
One of the main mechanisms of action of antibodies is neutralization. There are other mechanisms as well, but I don't think they contribute as much here.
The antibody tests that were talked about a lot on here, were they antibodies for the spike protein or the virus itself? Does the body fight both the spike protein and the virus when you are infected with COVID-19?
I wonder how many people get that feeling because they know it's COVID and it can be deadly. Just like I have friends who think they might have it because they coughed twice and have a headache.
"Fighting the spike" is fighting the virus.
There is no such things as antibodies "against the virus". They all target a viral protein. It can be the spike, it can be another protein.
As far as the vaccine is concerned, all the antibodies generated are against the spike.
A virus is proteins, lipids and genetic material.
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
I was in video chat with him. He didn't look himself, very run down. He coughed the entire call. I asked if he was having trouble breathing and he said his breathing seemed OK, but he couldn't take more than small breaths without hacking up a lung. But he did show up for work at least.
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