OT: Covid-19 (Part 25) Summertime

[peate]

f*** this, I'm going home.

 

[Kriss E]

then there should be statues of no one honestly

There's no logic in this comment. If you can't have statues of white supremacists and pro-slavers, then you shouldn't have any at all?
I'm not particularly a fan of statues but that makes no sense.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

There's no logic in this comment. If you can't have statues of white supremacists and pro-slavers, then you shouldn't have any at all?
I'm not particularly a fan of statues but that makes no sense.

Lshap mentioned MLK.

do you think a guy who allegedly treated women badly deserves to have a statue?

 

[Ozmodiar]

 

[Kriss E]

Lshap mentioned MLK.

do you think a guy who allegedly treated women badly deserves to have a statue?

You can cross that bridge when you get there. So far these are only allegations, if this alleged proof finally comes out to show MLK was some type of Harvey Weinstein then ya, get rid of his statue too and his name. But how fitting would that be though right?? One of the biggest civil rights figure disturbing the peace ends up being this sadistic misogynistic prick. Wouldn't that have been pretty great for white america back in those days..
If news come out showing Ghandi was a pedophile, f*** him too.

For now, the despicableness of MLK is far from being a well established fact. But the statues of people fighting for the Confederacy, who were for White Supremacy and slave ownership, are disgusting. We don't need to wait for the proof. Those people thought white people were above, and thought blacks should be slaves. They are also traitors to the US as they chose to secede and attack. Pretty nuts they have statues celebrating these guys as if they are heroes and need to be celebrated.

For the record, I don't think they should be destroyed. I just think it should be in a Museum of history, not in the streets.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

So, uh, Sens fan living in Montreal so with that out the way...

We're totally going to see another wave much sooner than expected aren't we? Province decided "f*** it, numbers down enough let's reopen everything" and people are out there in crowded bars and restaurants with no masks sharing plates/glasses etc. as if nothing ever happened. I don't see how this is sustainable and they'll have to close everything down again just like they've had to do in some states like Texas which also reopened too quickly. Granted their numbers never went down like they did in QC, but the gov. is being incredibly shortsighted and playing with fire. They can only blame themselves if there's another shutdown because the population doesn't give a shit lol.

 

[Kriss E]

So, uh, Sens fan living in Montreal so with that out the way...

We're totally going to see another wave much sooner than expected aren't we? Province decided "f*** it, numbers down enough let's reopen everything" and people are out there in crowded bars and restaurants with no masks sharing plates/glasses etc. as if nothing ever happened. I don't see how this is sustainable and they'll have to close everything down again just like they've had to do in some states like Texas which also reopened too quickly. Granted their numbers never went down like they did in QC, but the gov. is being incredibly shortsighted and playing with fire. They can only blame themselves if there's another shutdown because the population doesn't give a shit lol.

You can't compare us to Texas or Florida, or anywhere in the states.

The cases in Qc were mostly health care related. People were not getting sick going to IGA or Canadian Tire. That makes it controllable.
They also didn't just say ''f*** it! Let's reopen everything!'', that's revisionist history. We have been slowly reopening since May 4th starting with construction and landscaping. Then daycares and other businesses outside of Mtl also got to reopen, and then in Mtl. Little by little, they permitted more businesses to operate. We are now a couple of days from July and they gave the green light to bars, so it was done over a 2 month period.

A rise in cases is expected as well but it should be way more controllable. How they've handled things in the States is nuts and really does not compare. They didn't even wait to see their cases dropped, they opted to reopen while they plateaued at the peak. As I said, can't compare.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

You can't compare us to Texas or Florida, or anywhere in the states.

The cases in Qc were mostly health care related. People were not getting sick going to IGA or Canadian Tire. That makes it controllable.
They also didn't just say ''f*** it! Let's reopen everything!'', that's revisionist history. We have been slowly reopening since May 4th starting with construction and landscaping. Then daycares and other businesses outside of Mtl also got to reopen, and then in Mtl. Little by little, they permitted more businesses to operate. We are now a couple of days from July and they gave the green light to bars, so it was done over a 2 month period.

A rise in cases is expected as well but it should be way more controllable. How they've handled things in the States is nuts and really does not compare. They didn't even wait to see their cases dropped, they opted to reopen while they plateaued at the peak. As I said, can't compare.

We went from a slow reopening to opening everything within a week. Big difference between allowing some stores with a front entrance or some construction project to open and giving the go-ahead to bars, clubs, gyms and restaurants, where transmission is extremely likely if there's even one infected person.

I also qualified my statement regarding us and the states saying our numbers are lower, and no, our cases did not all come from the health sector. I caught covid in April and I know of two others who also caught it through regular community spread. And health workers go out in the world just like everyone else.

Opening bars and restaurants after a few good weeks is insane and you're basically asking for a second wave instead of preventing it by all means necessary, which is what a responsible government would do. Montrealers are already careless enough as is, most aren't wearing masks or respecting distancing measures, so giving them the opportunity to squeeze into a bar is giving the virus a big ol' Welcome Back party.

 

[Lshap]

So, uh, Sens fan living in Montreal so with that out the way...

We're totally going to see another wave much sooner than expected aren't we? Province decided "f*** it, numbers down enough let's reopen everything" and people are out there in crowded bars and restaurants with no masks sharing plates/glasses etc. as if nothing ever happened. I don't see how this is sustainable and they'll have to close everything down again just like they've had to do in some states like Texas which also reopened too quickly. Granted their numbers never went down like they did in QC, but the gov. is being incredibly shortsighted and playing with fire. They can only blame themselves if there's another shutdown because the population doesn't give a shit lol.

The fact that we needed a Sens fan to get us back on topic is more shameful than your team whooping us in 2013.

Seriously, welcome! I don't think we'll have a resurgence because of restaurants, but I am concerned about the idiot club owners who have no problem attracting crowds of oblivious young people and squeezing them together. If cases go up, it'll be because of that age group. There's enough space in stores and restaurants to keep us safe; the data says that's not where the virus is transmitted. It's the up close and personal places.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

The fact that we needed a Sens fan to get us back on topic is more shameful than your team whooping us in 2013.

Seriously, welcome! I don't think we'll have a resurgence because of restaurants, but I am concerned about the idiot club owners who have no problem attracting crowds of oblivious young people and squeezing them together. If cases go up, it'll be because of that age group. There's enough space in stores and restaurants to keep us safe; the data says that's not where the virus is transmitted. It's the up close and personal places.

Thanks for the welcoming words! I figure this board is as good as anywhere else to discuss specific issues related to Montreal/Covid-19.

As far as restaurants allowing spread, I present you with this article: 85 people infected from a single restaurant in an area that had low transmission, and in which they were respecting distancing measures etc.

Patrons are asked to self-quarantine after about 85 people who visited a Michigan bar get Covid-19 - CNN

 

[Kriss E]

We went from a slow reopening to opening everything within a week. Big difference between allowing some stores with a front entrance or some construction project to open and giving the go-ahead to bars, clubs, gyms and restaurants, where transmission is extremely likely if there's even one infected person.

I also qualified my statement regarding us and the states saying our numbers are lower, and no, our cases did not all come from the health sector. I caught covid in April and I know of two others who also caught it through regular community spread. And health workers go out in the world just like everyone else.

Opening bars and restaurants after a few good weeks is insane and you're basically asking for a second wave instead of preventing it by all means necessary, which is what a responsible government would do. Montrealers are already careless enough as is, most aren't wearing masks or respecting distancing measures, so giving them the opportunity to squeeze into a bar is giving the virus a big ol' Welcome Back party.

First off, new studies coming out the risk of catching COVID from the gym isn't actually high.
Gyms Reopening May Not Facilitate Coronavirus Infections, Study Finds
It’s safe to go back to the gym—if there’s little COVID-19 around, study suggests

I didn't say ''all'' cases came from the health care sector, I said ''most'', and that's true. It was highly concentrated from there.

A responsible government also don't let businesses die and after being closed since mid-march, it was important to start allowing them to reopen. They don't even operate at full capacity.
The objective of closing back in March was never to get the virus down to zero. It was to limit the damage and flatten the curve, which we did and would have done much sooner if not for our screw up in health care.
We slowly reopened businesses over an 8 week period as the curve was flattened and numbers declined. As our numbers were dropping significantly more it made no sense to further wait and keep letting businesses bleed out some more. Numbers went down as more businesses reopened.

If we get a surge in cases, then they'll take the sensible next steps, as they did the first time.

 

[Lshap]

Thanks for the welcoming words! I figure this board is as good as anywhere else to discuss specific issues related to Montreal/Covid-19.

As far as restaurants allowing spread, I present you with this article: 85 people infected from a single restaurant in an area that had low transmission, and in which they were respecting distancing measures etc.

Patrons are asked to self-quarantine after about 85 people who visited a Michigan bar get Covid-19 - CNN

I appreciate the info; it is legitimate evidence. But... if that restaurant was following protocols then it's very unlikely people got sick by just showing up and having a meal. Something went very wrong. Either there was a large party with infected people, or a server wasn't wearing a mask and was coughing and sneezing on the glasses, or the ventilation was broken. The logistics of eating in a restaurant don't make it riskier than eating in someone's house, and people have been gathering for meals for two months without incident.

I know I'm just poking holes based on total speculation, but a typical restaurant visit with people sitting apart and servers wearing masks should be a very low risk. It seems weird that it was the cause of an outbreak.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

You can cross that bridge when you get there. So far these are only allegations, if this alleged proof finally comes out to show MLK was some type of Harvey Weinstein then ya, get rid of his statue too and his name. But how fitting would that be though right?? One of the biggest civil rights figure disturbing the peace ends up being this sadistic misogynistic prick. Wouldn't that have been pretty great for white america back in those days..
If news come out showing Ghandi was a pedophile, f*** him too.

For now, the despicableness of MLK is far from being a well established fact. But the statues of people fighting for the Confederacy, who were for White Supremacy and slave ownership, are disgusting. We don't need to wait for the proof. Those people thought white people were above, and thought blacks should be slaves. They are also traitors to the US as they chose to secede and attack. Pretty nuts they have statues celebrating these guys as if they are heroes and need to be celebrated.

For the record, I don't think they should be destroyed. I just think it should be in a Museum of history, not in the streets.

The point isn't about when MLK's sealed FBI tapes will or will not be unsealed and show more about his character. That isn't the point at all, MLK is just an example.

The idea is no one is perfect and things that are objectively bad today may have been common place in an era. Of course, what MLK was accused of is a little more extreme as that wasn't acceptable in his era either.

I'm not for confederates, racists or whatever. I just think a long look has to be made about what we want this statues to represent, the person or the action/movement they created. If we consistently judge the person we all always find something, especially in eras that are extremely far back. IMO, a presidential statue should not be attacked, but they are.

Of course, I don't care for statues anyway. If we are pushing ideas of equality then why show people who are not balanced and perfect? A statue does not need to represent an actual person. For sake of discussion, imagine a statue of a boat and an explorer with the plaque on the statue making reference to columbus' journey rather than having a statue of columbus himself.

 

[groovejuice]

Gotta love how journalists transform estimates into certainty.

We don't know the source of this information. Do you think they're just randomly speculating?

 

[groovejuice]

Last week, a mob also tore down a statue of U.S. Grant, who was not only Lincoln's general during the war, but whose policies as President after the war were incredibly enlightened and way ahead of his time.

I like how Germany handled its own past, but that was done through careful legislation and a lot of consultation. It wasn't decided by mobs. TBH, I have zero sympathy for icons of the US south; I just dislike anything that resembles book-burning or witch-hunting.

The difference is that Germany was proactive and decisive. In the US, it's always 90% politics.

 

[groovejuice]

Thanks for the welcoming words! I figure this board is as good as anywhere else to discuss specific issues related to Montreal/Covid-19.

As far as restaurants allowing spread, I present you with this article: 85 people infected from a single restaurant in an area that had low transmission, and in which they were respecting distancing measures etc.

Patrons are asked to self-quarantine after about 85 people who visited a Michigan bar get Covid-19 - CNN

Could very well be the source of transmission was staff rather than customers.

 

[Treb]

We don't know the source of this information. Do you think they're just randomly speculating?

Source is in the article:
Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC has received results from the Western Washington State region; the New York City metro region; south Florida; and all of Connecticut, Missouri, and Utah from blood samples collected by commercial laboratories as part of routine patient care.
As more data become available, tables and data charts will be added to this page to show the early antibody test results for patient specimens tested in these areas.

There are limitations of this survey that should be considered when interpreting the results.

• People who have blood taken for routine screening or sick visits may not represent people from the total population in an area.
• Some results may be false positive results (the test result is positive, but the person does not really have antibodies to SARS-CoV-2), or false negative results (the person has antibodies to SARS-CoV-2, but the test doesn’t detect them). False positive results are more likely change the survey results if it is an area where the percentage of individuals previously infected is relatively low; it could make it look like more people are infected in the community than really are. Our analysis adjusted the seroprevalence estimate to account for false positives and false negatives.

Estimates from these states are between 6-24x, but there are just that, estimates based on 1-3k samples.

But here is what the article says:

The number of coronavirus infections in many parts of the United States is more than 10 times higher than the reported rate, according to data released on Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Don't know if its been said but kind of dumb to switch from daily to weekly updates after opening restaurants and public gathering places.

 

[DavePeak]

Don't know if its been said but kind of dumb to switch from daily to weekly updates after opening restaurants and public gathering places.

Yeah, it's been said here and within the population in general loudly enough to make the government backtrack. Starting tomorrow, they will resume giving daily stats (on weekdays only).

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Yeah, it's been said here and within the population in general loudly enough to make the government backtrack. Starting tomorrow, they will resume giving daily stats (on weekdays only).

i missed that. Thanks for the correction!

 

[Kriss E]

The point isn't about when MLK's sealed FBI tapes will or will not be unsealed and show more about his character. That isn't the point at all, MLK is just an example.

The idea is no one is perfect and things that are objectively bad today may have been common place in an era. Of course, what MLK was accused of is a little more extreme as that wasn't acceptable in his era either.

I'm not for confederates, racists or whatever. I just think a long look has to be made about what we want this statues to represent, the person or the action/movement they created. If we consistently judge the person we all always find something, especially in eras that are extremely far back. IMO, a presidential statue should not be attacked, but they are.

Of course, I don't care for statues anyway. If we are pushing ideas of equality then why show people who are not balanced and perfect? A statue does not need to represent an actual person. For sake of discussion, imagine a statue of a boat and an explorer with the plaque on the statue making reference to columbus' journey rather than having a statue of columbus himself.

It's not about being perfect. Slavery is one of the worst crimes you can commit on a human being, not only that but they were traitors to their country. We're not talking about somebody snorting blow off a shemale hooker's schlong, if that were the case then I wouldn't really care, whatever floats your boat mate.
We are talking statues celebrating traitors, white supremacists and pro-slavers. Looking at those statues and saying ''bah..nobody's perfect'' is one f***ing hell of a way of understating how terrible they were.
And for the record, those statues weren't there until after they lost the war and slavery was abolished. Those states put up these statues as fallen heroes, proud members of their militias they want to celebrate. Fine, they didn't know better before but we live in 2020 so that excuse doesn't hold anymore.

There's nothing wrong in finding some deep terrible issues that are no longer accepted and acting on it. It's part of evolution.
Up until 2017 there was a statue of the first grand wizard of the KKK for crying out loud. That's messed up man.
These statues do not deserve to be anywhere other than a museum, a place where people willingly go for to learn about history. They should not be in the streets.

 

[Runner77]

Could very well be the source of transmission was staff rather than customers.

So that's what they mean by staff ("staph") infection.

 

[groovejuice]

So that's what they mean by staff ("staph") infection.

Oh, you clever lad!

 

[Runner77]

Oh, you clever lad!

Low hanging fruit, lol.

 

[groovejuice]

Low hanging fruit, lol.

Maybe I lobbed you a pitch, but you still hit it out of the park.