OT: Covid-19 (Part 24) Reunited

[Runner77]

Not sure where this belongs but it’s going to dominate the news cycle:

 

[Braun]

Please watch the DA's press conference, it's all there for you if you actually do care at all about this.



Are you going to add anything to this debate? Can you at least point out what you don't agree with?

The average training a cop gets in the US, which is police academy plus 2-3months of field training, is approximately 30 weeks.

Compare that to what is needed to become a cop in Quebec, and it's laughable. And we don't even do it that well here in Quebec honestly.

Exactly. To become a cop in the US seems really easy compared to other countries. I respect veterans but a lot of them become cops after their military service and I wonder if that is another factor that leads to increases in shootings.

military teach agression whereas the police should be controlling and de-escalating the situation.

 

[Lshap]

You say this:

Where did I say the entire force were sociopaths?

And then in the very next line, say this:

1- whether you want to admit it to yourself or not, police agencies are a hotbed for sociopaths. It's not just a few bad apples.

2- how naive to believe they effectively screen them out. Firstly, the psy tests given are outdated and rarely do siff out intelligent sociopaths for the simple reason psychology has trailed behind when it comes to identifying sociopathy. Most sociopathy tests are based on the assumption that empathy, emotional intelligence, comes in a single flavor, all due to the prefrontal cortex. Therein lies a huge problem. A problem that many psychologists brought up to the academy to no avail. See, empathy comes in two major flavors, rational empathy, which is what psychology tests for and emotional empathy, which is the part they do not differentiate. Now, the academy never changed it. Today, we know they are two seperate mechanisms that act together or against each other. Rational empathy is seated in the prefrontal cortex, while emotional empathy comes from our limbic system, more accurately our anterior cingulate. Intelligent sociopaths can easily twart questions about rational empathy. It's when they are tested for emotional response, that's when you can catch an intelligent sociopath, which is not something they do. I know those screening methods. I have family that have gone through them and it's wholly inadequate.

You've written a medical description of sociopathy, so I assume you have medical evidence to link it to the police force, along with evidence of it being a hotbed of sociopaths. I'm genuinely curious what that evidence is.

 

[Braun]

Not sure where this belongs but it’s going to dominate the news cycle:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nypost....ing-junior-hockey-sexual-assault-lawsuit/amp/

The allegations are graphic and detailed here: More explosive and shocking allegations against junior hockey in newly filed lawsuit - TheHockeyNews

Not surprised. I played a fairly high level of hockey and while I’ve never had anything jammed up my arse I’ve witnessed the urinating stories and similar things...didn’t happen to me because I was a goalie and for some reason no one ever bugged us.

hockey culture is capable of the best and the worst...

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

So you have no expertise, but you feel qualified to lecture me. Okay man.

Well, you feel qualified to conclude it's not flawed. Laugh at yourself. Such an easy cope out, "I'll only believe authoritive figures" *but i on the other hand can make conclusions*"

I can indeed lecture you on the subject. I said I don't know about expertise because even experts argue among themselves., when do you reach the point of expertise when you're a scholar? You keep learning all the time, as experts do in a particular field. Problem with your outlook is that the justice system is bound by different professions and expertise.

Just in medical profession alone, you'll find huge critics of the justice system, because violence is a public health issue. So what expertise are you looking for? I bet you don't even know where to point at and where to look at.

But keep laughing. I still have much in store if all you can do is that.

 

[Lshap]

Well, you feel qualified to conclude it's not flawed. Laugh at yourself. Such an easy cope out, "I'll only believe authoritive figures" *but i on the other hand can make conclusions*"

I can indeed lecture you on the subject. I said I don't know about expertise because even experts argue among themselves., when do you reach the point of expertise when you're a scholar? You keep learning all the time, as experts do in a particular field. Problem with your outlook is that the justice system is bound by different professions and expertise.

Just in medical profession alone, you'll find huge critics of the justice system, because violence is a public health issue. So what expertise are you looking for? I bet you don't even know where to point at and where to look at.

But keep laughing. I still have much in store if all you can do is that.

In other words, you have zero expertise and zero knowledge to lecture anyone. You just do it anyway.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

You say this:


And then in the very next line, say this:


I'll ask you again: On what basis have you decided that the police department isn't screening properly for sociopathy, and on what basis are you diagnosing the police force as being a hotbed for clinical sociopaths?

Man, go hone your text analysis skills because there's huge difference between a hotbed and the entire force.

As for your last question. Answer it yourself. Go f***ing read ffs. You laugh at me yet it's clear I've spent much more time on the subject than you have. You want experts, go read'em yourself.

I don't really feel like answering someone who is bent on twisting what I say to fit your little narrative.

What's the problem, can't counter-argue what I say, so you need to create a strawman?

Also I already answered about the screening. It's f***ing textbook neurobiology vs outdated psychology.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

In other words, you have zero expertise and zero knowledge to lecture anyone. You just do it anyway.

Speak for yourself mr cope-out

 

[angusyoung]

 

[cphabs]

Exactly. To become a cop in the US seems really easy compared to other countries. I respect veterans but a lot of them become cops after their military service and I wonder if that is another factor that leads to increases in shootings.

military teach agression whereas the police should be controlling and de-escalating the situation.

Are you seriously bringing combat veterans into this? Well, I happen to be one! Ask away on anything you would like to know!

 

[angusyoung]

And Desharnais! Don't forget our good old DD thread!

ahh,the good 'ol days of double d's,fondly remember them.

 

[waffledave]

I’ve see it but am still curious as to what the law says.

Georgia Code Title 16. Crimes and Offenses § 16-3-21 | FindLaw

A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person against such other's imminent use of unlawful force; however, except as provided in Code Section 16-3-23 , a person is justified in using force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Going to be difficult for the cop to justify his actions. They knew he had no other weapons besides the taser, they know the taser has limited charges and is no longer a threat after being fired. They reached for the gun while he still had his back turned and before he fired the taser, and he shot him in the back after the taser was discharged and his back was turned, running away. Plus the actions after the shooting. He's not getting off with nothing.

 

[Braun]

Are you seriously bringing combat veterans into this? Well, I happen to be one! Ask away on anything you would like to know!

I’m just saying your training is different than policing. In the USA a lot of former military turn to policing/security. I think it could definitely be a factor. I have a lot of respect for combat veterans, don’t get me wrong.

 

[angusyoung]

Not surprised. I played a fairly high level of hockey and while I’ve never had anything jammed up my arse I’ve witnessed the urinating stories and similar things...didn’t happen to me because I was a goalie and for some reason no one ever bugged us.

hockey culture is capable of the best and the worst...

Is it possible they pick on the silent shy types? ones with no push back?Played a ton of hockey over the years and never encountered any shit that I recall,but that was decades ago, and I was not one to put with anything and defend those that were being picked on.

 

[Braun]

Is it possible they pick on the silent shy types? ones with no push back?Played a ton of hockey over the years and never encountered any shit that I recall,but that was decades ago, and I was not one to put with anything and defend those that were being picked on.

Usually it was the older guys picking on the younger ones. I kept to myself.

 

[Lshap]

Man, go hone your text analysis skills because there's huge difference between a hotbed and the entire force.

As for your last question. Answer it yourself. Go f***ing read ffs. You laugh at me yet it's clear I've spent much more time on the subject than you have. You want experts, go read'em yourself.

I don't really feel like answering someone who is bent on twisting what I say to fit your little narrative.

What's the problem, can't counter-argue what I say, so you need to create a strawman?

Also I already answered about the screening. It's f***ing textbook neurobiology vs outdated psychology.

I can't counter-argue what you've said because you've said absolutely nothing. You declared the police force is full of sociopaths and narcissists, and when asked what you base that on, responded, "Answer it yourself!". Thanks, I will. You want me to read the experts? Thanks, I'm happy to.

But since you have no evidence and you're not an expert, why are you clinging to this notion that you can lecture anyone?

 

[cphabs]

Georgia Code Title 16. Crimes and Offenses § 16-3-21 | FindLaw



Going to be difficult for the cop to justify his actions. They knew he had no other weapons besides the taser, they know the taser has limited charges and is no longer a threat after being fired. They reached for the gun while he still had his back turned and before he fired the taser, and he shot him in the back after the taser was discharged and his back was turned, running away. Plus the actions after the shooting. He's not getting off with nothing.

He was armed! Reasonable doubt in a court of law is going to throw this out IMO

 

[cphabs]

I’m just saying your training is different than policing. In the USA a lot of former military turn to policing/security. I think it could definitely be a factor. I have a lot of respect for combat veterans, don’t get me wrong.

Please, tell me about our training.

 

[Braun]

Please, tell me about our training.

Please enlighten me how military combat training is a plus for police service. It would seem that you’re taught to neutralize an enemy where as a cop is supposed to serve and protect, no? Is it normal to shoot a civilian in the back that has a one shot taser and missed his shot?

 

[Edgy]

Not sure where this belongs but it’s going to dominate the news cycle:

That is very disturbing if true.

 

[Lshap]

W3K also agrees with me they should be better screened.

Expertise? You make conclusions yourself, do you have an expertise on the subject?

I have an immense propensity to inform myself through whatever channels I can find. I don't know sbout expertise, but I can definitely lecture you on the subject.

Where do you want to start? Punishment vs rehabilitation (which is huge all by itself)? The pervasive and negative effects of structural violence on behavior? The incongruence of many laws? Corporate institutionalized slavery through the correction system? The influence of powerful self-interests over the justice system? The system itself protecting its own institution, slow to change to accomodate to new findings on behavior? The viscious circle of creating worst crminals by making them live through the correction system? I could go on and on.

Critics of the justice system are plentiful. If you want expertise, I'll just quote every critic I've read, it's going to be lenghty.

Anyone saying it's not flawed hasn't looked nearly long enough. I've spent a lot of my 20's speaking to many lawyers (I worked in IT) and even among them, you'll find huge critics of the system.

I have no expertise and never pretended to. Yes, like you, I inform myself and read what I can, including the opinions of people on this board (including you, by the way). But there's a big gap between being somewhat informed and actually knowing the answer. Especially in this subject where there is no real 'answer'. We're talking about an institution like a police force, where training, hiring, and demographics vary from city to city, and HR department to HR department. I believe you're a person of conscience, and I'd say the same of myself, but I think our limits are to ask the right questions. I sincerely don't think either of us is qualified to presume the answers to who these police officers are and what psychological factors need to be vetted/tweaked/focused on.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

You say this:


And then in the very next line, say this:


You've written a medical description of sociopathy, so I assume you have medical evidence to link it to the police force, along with evidence of it being a hotbed of sociopaths. I'm genuinely curious what that evidence is.

That's not what I did.

How can I even transmit a complicate subject to someone who keeps either intently twisting what I said, or just not understanding what I said?

What I described is the overall critic of the psychology tests that are used to screen police officers.

If you care to look it up for yourself, there's already much talk about sociopathy being rampant in law enforcement, hence if the tests are inadequate as is clearly demonstrated by many critics, many among them are psychiatrists and neurobiologists, if you care to read them, then there is definitely a problem.

A description of sociopathy would be quite lenghtier.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

They did not shoot at the same moment. During that 1 second between the taser discharge and the first shot, the cop had plenty of time to not pull the trigger. Especially when Brooks had his back turned.

If 1 second can be considered a late hit in hockey, it sure is even more late for shooting a gun.

As soon as he saw the guy pointing the taser gun, he reached for his arm... Are you seriously arguing about semantic ? Comparing it to a late hockey hit ?

Plenty of time ? What are you talking about ?

 

[lo striver]

View attachment 350684

 

[angusyoung]

That Lightlager is really gonna cause some havoc!