OT: Covid-19 (Part 21) Come Together

[Kriss E]

There are plenty of countries that have managed to reduce new cases to almost zero. It is very much possible, we just aren't capable to do that here for a number of reasons.

Not Countries that have had to deal with big increases and reached high levels like us in the 80K+ range.
China is the only one and everyone here agrees, they're probably simply not counting their cases anymore or hiding some.

There are things we could have done earlier to prevent us from peaking as we have. Alas that's too late. Now we're living with it, it will be going around, waiting for it to disappear is not a realistic strategy at this point.

 

[Per Sjoblom]

SpaceX first 2 astronauts ready to launch today. This is a live feed. It's in joint with NASA. Historic day for space travel as it will advance the commercial possibilities of space travel.

Postponed until Saturday the 30th due to weather patterns.

 

[Kriss E]

There's nothing drastic in what I said. Primers are not relying on Trudeau to manage the epidemy. Just like any kind of measure taken in BC have very little to no impact on what is going on in Manitoba.

This is the governance structure we have in Canada, so yeah, comparing a province to NZ is perfectly acceptable in this situation.

Quebec could not close its borders to the US. That comes from the Federal.
Legault was even asked about it by reporters, as to why Trudeau isn't closing the borders with the USA, to which he answered the guy on the other side isn't always easy to dealt with.

 

[OnTheRun]

Quebec could not close its borders to the US. That comes from the Federal.
Legault was even asked about it by reporters, as to why Trudeau isn't closing the borders with the USA, to which he answered the guy on the other side isn't always easy to dealt with.

Yes the federal manage the borders and some airports within each province.
But overall the federal is a minor player in the whole management of covid-19 in each provinces.

 

[peate]

Oh oh Leopold.

 

[scrubadam]

True....we have a problem.
The problem is cause by years of cheap out in these place and loose regulations.
But at one point, can we fix the problem?

Other places had fix the problem.

I guess since it happen in Ontario Trudeau will take it seriouse.

What hit me was at the beginning of this BC stopped the practice of workers going to multiple residences. It took Leagault WEEKS to make the same decision.

 

[peate]

This one's good too.

 

[waffledave]

Maybe I missed it...but when I look at other countries...I dont see it. You have some exemple ?

Every major country except China, still have new cases several month after the first outbreak.

And a lots of country, are probably hiding number or not testing enough.

The « 0 new cases » dream...was always a dream.

There is alway hole in the system. Just with the basic worker...you will get new cases. Most expert agree that this virus will be there for some years.

Unless you completely shut down your country, which is impossible in an open economy like us/any rich country...you will see some new cases

I mean, ZERO new cases, no. But very low numbers of new cases (which is what I meant by near zero) are possible. When you have new cases so low, it's because the situation is highly controlled and contained. So the effect is the same.

- Hong Kong is averaging like 1 new case per day for the last month.
- Taiwan has no new cases in weeks
- NZ will have zero cases in their entire country shortly
- SK has very few new cases per day, less than 50, which is huge considering they had a lot at one point
- Vietnam
- Australia
- Iceland
- Greece
- Switzerland
- Israel
- Northern Europe outside Sweden

There are many examples where the number of new cases for entire countries are very very low, nearly zero.

 

[waffledave]

Not Countries that have had to deal with big increases and reached high levels like us in the 80K+ range.
China is the only one and everyone here agrees, they're probably simply not counting their cases anymore or hiding some.

There are things we could have done earlier to prevent us from peaking as we have. Alas that's too late. Now we're living with it, it will be going around, waiting for it to disappear is not a realistic strategy at this point.

Bet you Germany gets to under 50 a day. What will be your excuse then?

 

[scrubadam]

We actually had a good situation to take care of this. We are an island, all we would of had to have done was close up the bridges and the city could of been isolated.

Then do a big lock down, close the public transport, close off each burrough and we probably could of killed this thing before middle of April.

Instead we dithered around, pat each other on the back for doing a great job and having so many tests, and then watched everything burn while our Mayor is worrying about BIXI bikes and bike lanes, and our seniors are being sacrificed. Lucky enough through all this incompetence we only managed to lose less than 70 people under the age of 60 so no matter how dumb these guys were somehow the younger generation managed to make it through.

 

[Kriss E]

Yes the federal manage the borders and some airports within each province.
But overall the federal is a minor player in the whole management of covid-19 in each provinces.

Sure but knowing now that we had cases come in because of US border crossing, namely within the jewish orthodox community, then Federal shares the blame.
The timing of our spring break obviously played its part too, being from March 2nd-9th. That's just unfortunate.
Where they really dropped the ball is not pushing for masks earlier, actually suggesting they were borderline useless, and the elderly residences.

 

[Kriss E]

Bet you Germany gets to under 50 a day. What will be your excuse then?

Who cares...? As it stands, they're far from that right now, so no, you don't have examples of countries who were hit like us and managed to bring their numbers down to zero...or 50.
And Germany wants to reopen borders to EU flights.

But not sure what your ''what will be your excuse'' comment is about anyways. I said there currently isn't a country that's been hit like us and managed to bring their numbers way way down to zero. It's a fact, not an excuse.
If Germany does it, and Saudi Arabia, and Chile, while our numbers don't drop, well then we will discuss things then. At this time it's pretty pointless.

 

[Treb]

Who cares...? As it stands, they're far from that right now, so no, you don't have examples of countries who were hit like us and managed to bring their numbers down to zero...or 50.
And Germany wants to reopen borders to EU flights.

But not sure what your ''what will be your excuse'' comment is about anyways. I said there currently isn't a country that's been hit like us and managed to bring their numbers way way down to zero. It's a fact, not an excuse.
If Germany does it, and Saudi Arabia, and Chile, while our numbers don't drop, well then we will discuss things then. At this time it's pretty pointless.

Switzerland has 50% more cases per million than us and have 15 new cases right now and have been in the 10-15 cases for a time. But it depends on your definition of almost 0.

 

[ProMath]

There's nothing drastic in what I said. Primers are not relying on Trudeau to manage the epidemy. Just like any kind of measure taken in BC have very little to no impact on what is going on in Manitoba.

This is the governance structure we have in Canada, so yeah, comparing a province to NZ is perfectly acceptable in this situation.

Trudeau helping the province with thousand of employee to trace people (up to 24k call per day) has no positive impact too ?

Your notion that the federal has minimal impact is completely false.

There is plenty exemple of positive/negative huge impact decision...

Let’s hope Trudeau think he has a big impact before agreeing with Trump to open the border.

Your statement was just wrong, move on.

Every country has different structures that impact differently. If Trudeau were running his mouth like Trump...I bet you you would be the first one saying it has a huge impact on how province manage this pandemic.

 

[Kriss E]

Switzerland has 50% more cases per million than us and have 15 new cases right now and have been in the 10-15 cases for a time. But it depends on your definition of almost 0.

Per million is irrelevant in this matter. The lesser raw number of infected, the easier it is to control, whether there's 3M people in your country or 300...doesn't change much.

 

[Treb]

Per million is irrelevant in this matter. The lesser raw number of infected, the easier it is to control, whether there's 3M people in your country or 300...doesn't change much.

France and Belgium are doing pretty decent (under 200) then.

 

[Kriss E]

France and Belgium are doing pretty decent (under 200) then.

Ya they've improved, and they've reopened. Point was, countries are not waiting to hit 0 or close to it before reopening.

 

[OnTheRun]

Trudeau helping the province with thousand of employee to trace people (up to 24k call per day) has no positive impact too ?

Your notion that the federal has minimal impact is completely false.

There is plenty exemple of positive/negative huge impact decision...

Let’s hope Trudeau think he has a big impact before agreeing with Trump to open the border.

Your statement was just wrong, move on.

Every country has different structures that impact differently. If Trudeau were running his mouth like Trump...I bet you you would be the first one saying it has a huge impact on how province manage this pandemic.

Again, you completely miss the point.

The role the Prime Minister of Canada is playing in managing Covid-19 is nowhere comparable to the role the Prime Minister of New Zealand or the President of the 5th French Republic is playing. The closest comparable you have in Canada is a provincial Premier.

But why!?! Because France and New Zealand use a centralized form of government while Canada use decentralized form of government. Hence why you can compare the policies of a Canadian province to the policies of a foreign country like NZ.

The fact is if you compare Canada to NZ then you are comparing 13 distincts Canadian policies to one, so it doesn't really make sense anyways.

 

[ProMath]

I mean, ZERO new cases, no. But very low numbers of new cases (which is what I meant by near zero) are possible. When you have new cases so low, it's because the situation is highly controlled and contained. So the effect is the same.

- Hong Kong is averaging like 1 new case per day for the last month.
- Taiwan has no new cases in weeks 7.4 millions
- NZ will have zero cases in their entire country shortly 5 millions
- SK has very few new cases per day, less than 50, which is huge considering they had a lot at one point 51 millions
- Vietnam 100 millions
- Australia 25 millions
- Iceland 364k
- Greece 11 millions
- Switzerland 9 millions - Someone pointed their number are WAY worse than us by the way
- Israel 9 millions population
- Northern Europe outside Sweden

There are many examples where the number of new cases for entire countries are very very low, nearly zero.

My bad, I should have specify....I always though when you compare you needed apple vs apple.

It’s all good when you want to find a way to do things better and share best practice.

But when you compare a country with 364k population with us...well. That why I said they only comparison good so far, is with Ontario.

You also need to factor our very strong link with the U.S. In anything, when thing go bad/good down there, we have some consequences.

Again, I know we could have done way better..but just like your were saying people were piggy pig for going outside because we knew so little about this virus....you should at least apply the same logic with the comparison game. Be cautious...there is a lot of factor...some we know, some we don’t.

 

[ProMath]

Again, you completely miss the point.

The role the Prime Minister of Canada is playing in managing Covid-19 is nowhere comparable to the role the Prime Minister of New Zealand or the President of the 3rd French Republic is playing. The closest comparable you have in Canada is a provincial Premier.

But why!?! Because France and New Zealand use a centralized form of government while Canada use decentralized form of government. Hence why you can compare the policies of a Canadian province to the policies of a foreign country like NZ.

The fact is if you compare Canada to NZ then you are comparing 13 distincts Canadian policies to one, so it doesn't really make sense anyways.

Your point is:

Compare a centralize Country vs a Province part of a decentralized Country.

I gave you two exemple you did not even care to acknowledge.

Yes we are decentralized, but Quebec do not have all the power regarding this pandemic. NZ does. You are ignoring the point. You can argue Quebec control 70%, 90% of it...but it is not 100%. Canada can help in plenty of way. His inaction is what could hurt us.

There is obvious situation were the federal did not help us in time. You can simply chose to ignore it to make your « point » valid.

Many here were outrage regarding the handling (no check point...etc)..of the airport (and they were right). Those had HUGE impact. The first weeks are the most crucial. Trudeau dropped the ball there. Let’s say they missed 100 cases because of that...how many cases 1-2 month later are a direct consequence of that ? 1k ? 5k ? But I guess, for you, that doesn’t matter.
I’m no expert on NZ....but if they dropped the ball on that aspect too...they are the one to blame. Here, Legault/Quebec is not to blame for that.

You said it yourself, you can’t compare Canada to NZ because of difference. Well guess what, it’s the same for Quebec vs NZ. You can compare Quebec vs Ontario. And than Canada vs some country.

If you want best practice...you dont need to compare anything. You just apply those. They will have different impact...that why the comparison game is not a good tool at this point.

 

[Edgy]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
96% of deaths in Italy suffered from preexisting conditions.
60% had 3 illnesses.

This sounds similar to our situation here.
"ISS analysis shows that as of May 25 only about 1.1% of virus fatalities have been under 50 years of age and more than 57% were over 80. Nearly half of new cases in May were registered at nursing homes."

This stuck me as odd. I would have thought heart conditions would have been a higher factor.
"More than 68% had high blood pressure, about 30% had diabetes and 28% suffered from heart disease, according to the report."

 

[OnTheRun]

Your point is:

Compare a centralize Country vs a Province part of a decentralized Country.

I gave you two exemple you did not even care to acknowledge.

Yes we are decentralized, but Quebec do not have all the power regarding this pandemic. NZ does. You are ignoring the point. You can argue Quebec control 70%, 90% of it...but it is not 100%. Canada can help in plenty of way. His inaction is what could hurt us.

There is obvious situation were the federal did not help us in time. You can simply chose to ignore it to make your « point » valid.

Many here were outrage regarding the handling (no check point...etc)..of the airport (and they were right). Those had HUGE impact. The first weeks are the most crucial. Trudeau dropped the ball there. Let’s say they missed 100 cases because of that...how many cases 1-2 month later are a direct consequence of that ? 1k ? 5k ? But I guess, for you, that doesn’t matter.
I’m no expert on NZ....but if they dropped the ball on that aspect too...they are the one to blame. Here, Legault/Quebec is not to blame for that.

The point is, again, what the provincial have control over matter more than what the federal have control over.

The Prime Minister of Canada doesn't call the shot when it come to covid-19 policies. It -DOESN'T- mean the Federal government is completely devoid of responsibilities or that it do nothing at all. The role of the Fed is to support the provinces and territories.

 

[ProMath]

The point is, again, what the provincial have control over matter more than what the federal have control over.

The Prime Minister of Canada doesn't call the shot when it come to covid-19 policies. It -DOESN'T- mean the Federal government is completely devoid of responsibilities or that it do nothing at all. The role of the Fed is to support the provinces and territories.

Well, agree to disagree.

I think, the border aspect...is one of the biggest control over this pandemic.

But I guess this doesn't impact enough for you !

If you tell me you done research in detail...and found NZ, had roughly the same challenge early on...and closed the border in the same timelines we did...you would be right to compare us...but I have my doubts.

 

[kgboomer]

Anyone into golf?

Here is one of the more beautiful golf courses in the world, it can be windy at time but the view is nice. I have been here once when a couple of friends from Sweden visited. I don't play myself so I spent the time having a few drinks. It's on the southern part of the Oregon coast and the view is fantastic if the weather is nice. You can even catch a view of some big whales on their way to the north Pacific.

It's called Bandy Dunes.

Bandon Dunes... it's a beast. It feels like a farmer field with all the hills everywhere, even on the greens. Never a flat lie, ball is sidehill on almost every shot with uphill or downhill lie. I really hate it. On the other end, it's really a true test of golf for masochist when the course is dry and fast.

 

[Karma Police]

Postponed until Saturday the 30th due to weather patterns.

Yeah it sucks and it's still at 60% no go for saturday / sunday.