OT: COVID-19 general thread (read OP, post #841)

[Patrik26]

I feel like with the increased amount of tests being done there will obviously be a ton more positive tests yet nobody is reporting the amount of people who HAVENT died. You have to do the math yourself and for a lot of people they're just not doing it. That by no means is me discounting the deaths as it's obviously horrifying but in a land of negativity people can use some positivity and a report on the amount of people recovering would be nice to see.

Unfortunately, "nice to see" doesn't play well with sensationalism. Sensationalism and click-baiting are what sells. The media SUCKS ASS.

 

[Patrik26]

There are many many thousands of people who were infected and either showed no symptoms or just got over it. You can likely count me in the "got over it" group back in late November, early December when, for the first time in like 15 years I got a fever, felt like crap for an entire week, and had a nagging cough and shortness of breath for 6 weeks afterward. None of those will get counted in the numbers.

There is far far far more we don't know than we do right now. I'm really tired of headlining reading experts. I'm really tired of the headline writers. I'm really tired of the education system that has so completely failed people that the ability to think critically is a concept 95% of this country doesn't understand, and I'm really tired of the sensationalism and the other extreme of "it's nothing". I don't know, you don't know, no one on this site knows (no matter how much they act like they do); even those most educated on the subject working on developing a vaccine don't know. Some people need to calm down, and others need to take it seriously so we can all meet in the middle which is 1. Take precautions. Simple hygiene rules still apply and should after this is "over". 2. If you have symptoms, stay home. Limit your travels otherwise. If you are in a really bad way, go to the hospital.

Should've left out critically to be totally honest.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Every press conference Cuomo is giving has numbers of the recovered on the same slide as the number of dead. Maybe DeBlasio's too, but I stopped watching his.

Lol what trash journalism.

Counterpoint - you can use the exact logic from that crappy article and argue deaths are overstated because docs are just labeling people corona out of an abundance of caution when they don't have sufficient tests.

Which btw is actually what happening during bird and swine flu. Hell, the article even says some states have backtracked on numbers at times.

I am so sick of these articles that say NOTHING of value and just have click-bait titles. Let's try some common sense journalism. Based on how contagious it is and daily US/China travel (nevermind other countries), it was definitely hitting the US hard in December. So yea, in that sense, deaths are probably understated. BUT, that also means the mortality rate is certainly drastically overstated.

Did you actually read the article? There's a lot of interesting things laid out in it that you may have missed. Here's some, since it's long and dense:

-"Public health experts say that an accurate count of deaths is an essential tool to understand a disease outbreak as it unfolds: The more deadly a disease, the more aggressively the authorities are willing to disrupt normal life. Precise death counts can also inform the federal government on how to target resources, like ventilators from the national stockpile, to the areas of the country with the most desperate need."

-Many rural areas don't have tests available for coroners to use. This indicates that: a) there's still many areas with a shortage of tests and b) there's a new potential vector of spreading.

-There was no uniform way to report deaths from coronavirus. States were being left to figure it out themselves. This has the potential to make bad data even worse.

-There were upticks in flu and pneumonia-like deaths in the months before Covid knowledge was a thing here. Of this, the article notes, "Across the country, coroners are going through a process of re-evaluation, reconsidering deaths that occurred before testing was widely available."

I think a lot of the criticism on the article is looking just at the headline, which the reporters are not responsible for. A lot of people don't realize that the the headlines for these articles are written by the editor and not the reporters.

It's an interesting article that underlines the point that the numbers we have are not accurate, despite a sensational headline. Not exactly mind-blowing there, but having all these experts quoted in it certainly gives weight to it and opens up more room for consideration.

---------------------------------

I've more-or-less ignored death numbers as a tool of comparison since this began, since it appears that most countries were caught off-guard and are likely having the same issues we are in terms of accurate reporting (And as someone who studied a lot of data science and statistics, this particularly interests me). The thing I was always most worried about, and you can go back to the previous TaN to see my posts, is that the hospitals were going to be overwhelmed in places like NYC and other dense areas.

 

[None Shall Pass]

On a separate virus note, one of my classmates (She is Chinese) decided to go back to China for the rest of the semester at the behest of her parents. She and I have been chatting. I thought you all might be interested in what traveling from NYC to Beijing is like right now, since I was definitely hyper-curious about it.

-One flight to LA, then another flight from LA to Beijing. That flight to Beijing cost $10,000 (Economy). Way more than she normally pays for it.

-No one is allowed to disembark from the plane until each person goes through an initial barrage of check-ups. She sent me a picture of six guys in full astronaut suits doing diagnostics on each person in their seat.

-People displaying symptoms are being sent directly to the hospital (if severe enough) or to a separate area in / near the airport to get a test done immediately.

-Each person is required to quarantine in a hotel for 14 days before continuing on to home, whether or not they are displaying symptoms. Those on the plane that do not display symptoms are sent to their hotel after going through customs and getting baggage - they'll still be tested the same day they land.

That's on the US to China route; don't know about any other countries inbound to China.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Should've left out critically to be totally honest.

I hear you and it's funny. On a serious note, though, most everyone is born with the ability to think. "I think therefore I am" as Descartes put it, though I'd argue it's closer to "I think, therefore you are." Regardless, it's not the lack of ability to think. It's about the way we think. How do we apply this inherited ability? To think critically is to apply logic to all know facts in an effort to reach your own, informed conclusion. This is a skill. Some are born with it, some are not. It can be taught, and it most certainly can be learned, but it's not everyone's default. This is especially true because critical thinking is not driven by emotion. In fact, it's reaching an unbiased conclusion without emotion. It's difficult. It requires time, research and the ability to completely push your biases aside. It is, in a way, anti-human. That said, it is, in my mind, the next human evolution. Not the elimination of all emotion, but the complete acceptance of critical thinking as the driving force behind decision making. Sometimes I think we are moving the right direction, but situations like this remind me how far away we are.

 

[Nubmer6]

I hear you and it's funny. On a serious note, though, most everyone is born with the ability to think. "I think therefore I am" as Descartes put it, though I'd argue it's closer to "I think, therefore you are." Regardless, it's not the lack of ability to think. It's about the way we think.

I don't think, therefore, I'm not

 

[devilsblood]

I hear you and it's funny. On a serious note, though, most everyone is born with the ability to think. "I think therefore I am" as Descartes put it, though I'd argue it's closer to "I think, therefore you are." Regardless, it's not the lack of ability to think. It's about the way we think. How do we apply this inherited ability? To think critically is to apply logic to all know facts in an effort to reach your own, informed conclusion. This is a skill. Some are born with it, some are not. It can be taught, and it most certainly can be learned, but it's not everyone's default. This is especially true because critical thinking is not driven by emotion. In fact, it's reaching an unbiased conclusion without emotion. It's difficult. It requires time, research and the ability to completely push your biases aside. It is, in a way, anti-human. That said, it is, in my mind, the next human evolution. Not the elimination of all emotion, but the complete acceptance of critical thinking as the driving force behind decision making. Sometimes I think we are moving the right direction, but situations like this remind me how far away we are.

I'm interested what you mean by this.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I'm interested what you mean by this.

Not to derail the thread too much farther than I already have, but basically, boiled down, I mean one cannot validate ones own existence.

 

[Devilsfan992]

On a separate virus note, one of my classmates (She is Chinese) decided to go back to China for the rest of the semester at the behest of her parents. She and I have been chatting. I thought you all might be interested in what traveling from NYC to Beijing is like right now, since I was definitely hyper-curious about it.

-One flight to LA, then another flight from LA to Beijing. That flight to Beijing cost $10,000 (Economy). Way more than she normally pays for it.

-No one is allowed to disembark from the plane until each person goes through an initial barrage of check-ups. She sent me a picture of six guys in full astronaut suits doing diagnostics on each person in their seat.

-People displaying symptoms are being sent directly to the hospital (if severe enough) or to a separate area in / near the airport to get a test done immediately.

-Each person is required to quarantine in a hotel for 14 days before continuing on to home, whether or not they are displaying symptoms. Those on the plane that do not display symptoms are sent to their hotel after going through customs and getting baggage - they'll still be tested the same day they land.

That's on the US to China route; don't know about any other countries inbound to China.

They paid $10,000 for a flight?!

 

[Devilsfan992]

China forces Italy to buy same coronavirus supplies it had donated to Beijing a few weeks ago

If true, this is as scummy as you can get. If untrue, this is very shitty reporting.

 

[glenwo2]

China forces Italy to buy same coronavirus supplies it had donated to Beijing a few weeks ago

If true, this is as scummy as you can get. If untrue, this is very shitty reporting.

It's shitty and scummy regardless .

 

[Blackjack]

China forces Italy to buy same coronavirus supplies it had donated to Beijing a few weeks ago

If true, this is as scummy as you can get. If untrue, this is very shitty reporting.

It's shitty and scummy regardless .

"According to a report" is the sourcing for this story.

To be clear, this news network denied there was anything to be concerned about with Coronavirtus until 2-3 weeks ago, they have a massive amount of blood on their hands. This story may end up being accurate, but I'm going to wait to see.

 

[None Shall Pass]

"China's efforts to rebrand itself as a global leader focused on humanitarian relief amid the coronavirus outbreak has hit a major snag and perhaps revealed Beijing's true intentions behind their public relations blitz." - Yeah, that's actually trash reporting. Tabloid-ass reporting.

 

[Call Me Al]

hey everyone look over there at china!

 

[None Shall Pass]

hey everyone look over there at china!

Meanwhile, from a multitude of outlets:

German, French Officials Accuse U.S. Of Diverting Supplies / US allies express dismay over US handling of global medical supply chain / 'An act of modern day piracy': Germany and France accuse US of seizing shipments of medical masks | Daily Mail Online

 

[Devils731]

3M Says No Evidence That Products Have Been Seized

“The interior minister of the Berlin city-state government, Andreas Geisel, blamed “the U.S.A.” last week for the confiscation of 200,000 masks ordered from a U.S. producer when they were in transit through Bangkok.

He backed off his account on Saturday, saying on Twitter that the masks were ordered from a German company and why they didn’t reach Germany was under review.”

“3M said media reports alleging that a shipment of 3M personal protective equipment was seized and diverted by U.S. authorities on April 3 are incorrect.

“3M has no evidence to suggest 3M products have been seized. 3M has no record of any order of respirators from China for the Berlin police. We cannot speculate where this report originated,” the company said in a statement.”

 

[MadDevil]

One government acting shitty doesn't excuse others of also acting shitty.

 

[My3Sons]

Back in my day, when I had to walk three miles through eight foot deep snow to and from school, uphill both ways, journalism was a relatively prestigious career that was viable for a number of folks both in video and print media. The folks with bylines and television appearances tended to be older and had long since learned to tread carefully with stories and sources. In reading a bunch of my local coverage of the coronavirus issues, the pictures of the writers look like a bunch of 20 somethings, typically looking more towards 20 than 30, and the digital age has seemingly killed journalism as a viable career outside the television arena. I don't doubt if my suspicions are correct that the need to compete for clicks and the relative youth of the reporters might combine for a bad result at times of great stress. Now, I have no illusions that various governments won't act selfishly if they see the need and especially if that sort of action will quell criticism from their constituents.

 

[Blackjack]

These accusations are flying around because governments are desperate to avoid blame. I would be highly skeptical of any thinly sourced story about this government or that government "stealing" or diverting equipment or otherwise acting in a sinister manner.

 

[My3Sons]

These accusations are flying around because governments are desperate to avoid blame. I would be highly skeptical of any thinly sourced story about this government or that government "stealing" or diverting equipment or otherwise acting in a sinister manner.

Hopefully we are all around in five years to read the retrospective tell all book about the verified screw ups by all parties that led to this. From the defunding of work on earlier SARS vaccine/treatment efforts to the mainland Chinese government minimizing the extent of the outbreak and its origin and the woeful ineffectiveness and lack of readiness on the part of just about every country to deal with the outbreak. I have a feeling we will be disappointed across the board. It will eventually be turned into a mini-series on Netflix. I leave it to others to decide on the casting.

 

[Devils731]

 

[Devilsfan992]

Boris Johnson in ICU.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Boris Johnson in ICU.

That is an unbelievably big story.

 

[None Shall Pass]

I mean...

 

[Edmonton East]

Bad news about USA? 100% believe it without question and blindly pedal it online. We are the WORST.

Bad news about another country? It's prob not true, or, hey just focus on USA.

People are insufferable. It's also incredible people still proceed to take and report half baked "studies", anonymous quotes, or just blatant nonsensical journalist speculation/propaganda as fact (left, right, center, apolitical, everyone does it to affirm their own bias).