COVID-19 (Coronavirus)

[Jacob]

I can't tell if you're being serious or not, but earlier we had people saying that going to the gym was paramount for their mental health so maybe things like gyms and churches should be reopened.

Can't say I'm surprised that people are flouting social distancing to go lift, just getting more and more numb to the casual disregard of fellow human's health.

This is a controversial political take but I strongly believe all gyms should be permanently closed and all churches should be converted into gyms.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Doctor from John Hopkins in Forbes with an interesting article and argument.

 

[The Old Master]

This is a controversial political take but I strongly believe all gyms should be permanently closed and all churches should be converted into gyms.

at least your honest.

 

[KIRK]

******* disgusting . . .

Gov. Whitmer vetoes bill to preven COVID-19 patients to be housed in nursing homes

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Gym's open, boys

Live one town over from this place. Dude should be in jail already, and not because of this. Had a record of DUI’s and vehicular manslaughter.

 

[KIRK]

Curious way to compare states given the death totals, but I've seen a couple of people suggest the US is going to end up, albeit the dumb way, ending up having developed a little herd immunity when the vaccine comes. Not sure I buy it fully, but look at places that got hit by a first wave and how they've done despite not exactly adhering to guidelines.

EDIT: Will add this. If 1/4 of people in AZ or TX have had the virus (and I wouldn't be surprised), then I'll bet it's 2 to 3 times that in NYC given the confines, subways, and how late they reacted.

 

[KIRK]

@Jaded-Fan, you were wondering the other day about how it happens that states count deaths NOT from COVID-19 as COVID-19 deaths nonetheless . . .

CDC director acknowledges hospitals have a monetary incentive to overcount coronavirus deaths

“I think you’re correct in that we’ve seen this in other disease processes, too. Really, in the HIV epidemic, somebody may have a heart attack but also have HIV — the hospital would prefer the [classification] for HIV because there’s greater reimbursement,” Redfield said during a House panel hearing Friday when asked by Rep. Blaine Luetkemeyer about potential “perverse incentives.”

Redfield continued: “So, I do think there’s some reality to that. When it comes to death reporting, though, ultimately, it’s how the physician defines it in the death certificate, and … we review all of those death certificates. So I think, probably it is less operable in the cause of death, although I won’t say there are not some cases. I do think though [that] when it comes to hospital reimbursement issues or individuals that get discharged, there could be some play in that for sure.”

 

[Jaded-Fan]

@Jaded-Fan, you were wondering the other day about how it happens that states count deaths NOT from COVID-19 as COVID-19 deaths nonetheless . . .

CDC director acknowledges hospitals have a monetary incentive to overcount coronavirus deaths

“I think you’re correct in that we’ve seen this in other disease processes, too. Really, in the HIV epidemic, somebody may have a heart attack but also have HIV — the hospital would prefer the [classification] for HIV because there’s greater reimbursement,” Redfield said during a House panel hearing Friday when asked by Rep. Blaine Luetkemeyer about potential “perverse incentives.”

Redfield continued: “So, I do think there’s some reality to that. When it comes to death reporting, though, ultimately, it’s how the physician defines it in the death certificate, and … we review all of those death certificates. So I think, probably it is less operable in the cause of death, although I won’t say there are not some cases. I do think though [that] when it comes to hospital reimbursement issues or individuals that get discharged, there could be some play in that for sure.”

 

[Jacob]

It’s a extremely American that we have earnestly tried to mitigate spread like most other countries but we’re going to be doing a face-first home base slide into herd immunity. Not total herd immunity but more than most countries and enough to significantly slow spread and get things back to normal in some regions.

That could be bad though. If the disease has long term complications in a significant % of infected we could be really F’d in a few areas like lost productivity and increasing medical costs and lower QOL. But maybe the vaccine will have its own complications to factor in- maybe it won’t be as effective or will result in mild disease for some or other issues, like the flu vaccine in the 70s that resulted in some GBS I think it was.

What else will be weird is if multiple vaccines hit the market at roughly the same time. Governments will probably financially back their own and they can’t all be equal in cost and effectiveness. I think it’ll all be extremely complicated and highly debated.

 

[NMK11]

@Jaded-Fan, you were wondering the other day about how it happens that states count deaths NOT from COVID-19 as COVID-19 deaths nonetheless . . .

CDC director acknowledges hospitals have a monetary incentive to overcount coronavirus deaths

“I think you’re correct in that we’ve seen this in other disease processes, too. Really, in the HIV epidemic, somebody may have a heart attack but also have HIV — the hospital would prefer the [classification] for HIV because there’s greater reimbursement,” Redfield said during a House panel hearing Friday when asked by Rep. Blaine Luetkemeyer about potential “perverse incentives.”

Redfield continued: “So, I do think there’s some reality to that. When it comes to death reporting, though, ultimately, it’s how the physician defines it in the death certificate, and … we review all of those death certificates. So I think, probably it is less operable in the cause of death, although I won’t say there are not some cases. I do think though [that] when it comes to hospital reimbursement issues or individuals that get discharged, there could be some play in that for sure.”

So not that monetary incentives aren't part of the problem, but in addition to that it can also be hard to classify deaths sometimes and isn't always a straightforward thing. To take the example used, someone has HIV but dies of a heart attack. Well, anyone can have a heart attack, but (and I'm spitballing here) what if HIV makes you a higher risk? What if the meds you are on increase that risk? So now you technically died of a heart attack and that's what goes on the death certificate, but if you can blame the majority of your risk on HIV, can you say it's from HIV or not?

COVID causes a host of other problems that we know of, and testing isn't perfect. So if someone dies of a complication, it's going to be reported as a COVID related death even if that's not what goes on a death certificate (and to be clear, an infectious disease should NEVER be what's on the cause of death paperwork). But what if someone dies of a complication and has all the features of COVID but their swab was negative? What if they were positive before and got over it but it placed them at higher risk and caused other things to happen?

It's just another hugely grey area in a grey issue.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

 

[KIRK]

So not that monetary incentives aren't part of the problem, but in addition to that it can also be hard to classify deaths sometimes and isn't always a straightforward thing. To take the example used, someone has HIV but dies of a heart attack. Well, anyone can have a heart attack, but (and I'm spitballing here) what if HIV makes you a higher risk? What if the meds you are on increase that risk? So now you technically died of a heart attack and that's what goes on the death certificate, but if you can blame the majority of your risk on HIV, can you say it's from HIV or not?

COVID causes a host of other problems that we know of, and testing isn't perfect. So if someone dies of a complication, it's going to be reported as a COVID related death even if that's not what goes on a death certificate (and to be clear, an infectious disease should NEVER be what's on the cause of death paperwork). But what if someone dies of a complication and has all the features of COVID but their swab was negative? What if they were positive before and got over it but it placed them at higher risk and caused other things to happen?

It's just another hugely grey area in a grey issue.

There certainly are some gray areas. Didn't think that I suggested otherwise.

And there also are a lot of cases that aren't gray . . . like the motorcycle accident in Florida classified as a COVID-19 death.

I'd just heard some time ago that there were monetary incentives for states tied to how many deaths (and diagnoses) they have, and it was interesting to see the head of the CDC actually confirm it . . . so I linked it.

 

[NMK11]

There certainly are some gray areas. Didn't think that I suggested otherwise.

And there also are a lot of cases that aren't gray . . . like the motorcycle accident in Florida classified as a COVID-19 death.

I'd just heard some time ago that there were monetary incentives for states tied to how many deaths (and diagnoses) they have, and it was interesting to see the head of the CDC actually confirm it . . . so I linked it.

Not suggesting you did either, just throwing out something else to think about as we try to classify death and destruction.

 

[KIRK]

Not suggesting you did either, just throwing out something else to think about as we try to classify death and destruction.

Got ya.

Since we're chatting, Florida flexed down to 5003 ICU beds and has 19.48% availability . . . another data point that helps to confirm the trending down read we're seeing in Florida.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Moving forward. Same prediction, but that many volunteers in this coutry alone is new.

I was one, but not picked.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

And another cruise ship proves that indeed, this was as dumb an idea as we thought.

Cruise ship number 2 with a C-19 outbreak.

 

[Empoleon8771]

And another cruise ship proves that indeed, this was as dumb an idea as we thought.

Cruise ship number 2 with a C-19 outbreak.

Idk, I think that's called "natural selection" or something like that

Like if you're dumb enough to get on a cruise during a pandemic, you kinda deserve what you get.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Idk, I think that's called "natural selection" or something like that

Like if you're dumb enough to get on a cruise during a pandemic, you kinda deserve what you get.

I would agree, but in this virus crises the idiots usually remove someone other than themselves from the gene pool. An older relative or friend.

I will say that in a way that will cost literally hundreds of thousands of lives world wide, a combination of the morons gathering and the virus culling the most vulnerable for the better part of a year now, the virus may run out of the weakest links and might not have the kill rate that it did from now until there is a vaccine widely distributed.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The headline did not say that at all. It said the protest was supported by neo-nazis and conspiracy theorists. Not that all 17k were part of those groups.

My problem with, not just this headline, but the string of this kind of narrative, is that it distracts from what should be the message.

The message should be simple, direct, and universally supported.

Wear a mask.

Social distance.

Anything else, including value judgment statements about the gathering distracts from that message and implies that some gatherings are bad and others good.

That kind of message, implied, direct, or simply assumed, is killing people.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The testing covered July 9 to August 2nd:

With Monday’s new cases, Allegheny County’s total is now at 8,310 cases. In the last 24 hours, the 68 new positive cases come from 1,104 test results that span from July 9 through August 2.

Allegheny County reported 68 new positive COVID-19 cases Monday, along with 1 new hospitalizations, and no additional deaths, according to the Allegheny County Health Department.

And the good news continued throughout the state:

 

[Factorial]

1918:

 

[Jaded-Fan]

However, to offset the barrage of stupidity, some positive news on the treatment front.