Could the M Cup move

[OMG67]

I disagree that Peterborough would not be able to hold a Memorial Cup in the future. The only thing that is holding them back in the Peterborough Memorial Centre. It is outdated and needs to be replaced. The city has started the process of finding a location for a new facility and once it is built Peterborough would be a great location for the tournament. Peterborough is a great hockey town and have deep roots in the community they are the longest continuous franchise currently in the OHL and have won the most OHL Championships of any team in the modern era. They have great community support. Last year during their championship run they got great community support and that has continued this season with sellout and near sellout crowds almost every night. The concern about it being a small community is not an issue because of the area they are in the fan base is larger than most people think it is. Peterborough county is large and there are also the surrounding counties and the Petes also get great fan support from people in the county and other surrounding areas. They are not the same team as they were ten, fifteen years ago. They are currently a successful franchise that is well run.

I’m only making that suggestion based on their current arena and location. The location is still a hinderance but with a new arena, they’d move into the second group.

Peterborough has a strong past and that plays well. But, the event is still a marquis event and Peterborough isn’t a marquis town. That will progressively play against it.

No offence meant either. This isn’t me bashing Peterborough. I placed Ottawa in the second group because of the current status of their building. I’m trying to be fair to everyone. Access to an International Airport, quality hotels, entertainment amenities and some fun tourist zones do go a long way to enhancing the bid. In my personal opinion, Peterborough lacks in those areas. If they had a new rink, a VERY strong team and the competition wasn’t fierce, they could still host. A lot would need to go in their favour though.

 

[SSMHoundsFan]

I disagree that Peterborough would not be able to hold a Memorial Cup in the future. The only thing that is holding them back in the Peterborough Memorial Centre. It is outdated and needs to be replaced. The city has started the process of finding a location for a new facility and once it is built Peterborough would be a great location for the tournament. Peterborough is a great hockey town and have deep roots in the community they are the longest continuous franchise currently in the OHL and have won the most OHL Championships of any team in the modern era. They have great community support. Last year during their championship run they got great community support and that has continued this season with sellout and near sellout crowds almost every night. The concern about it being a small community is not an issue because of the area they are in the fan base is larger than most people think it is. Peterborough county is large and there are also the surrounding counties and the Petes also get great fan support from people in the county and other surrounding areas. They are not the same team as they were ten, fifteen years ago. They are currently a successful franchise that is well run.

I think same could be said for the other teams that were mentioned:

Peterborough
Brantford
North Bay
Owen Sound
Sudbury - throwing this in due to the age of their arena

If all these teams built new arenas, they'd be up to par with the rest of the league and stand on an equal footing for MC hosting rights IMO

 

[OMG67]

I think same could be said for the other teams that were mentioned:

Peterborough
Brantford
North Bay
Owen Sound
Sudbury - throwing this in due to the age of their arena

If all these teams built new arenas, they'd be up to par with the rest of the league and stand on an equal footing for MC hosting rights IMO

I disagree. I do agree they would be on equal footing from a facility perspective, but that doesn’t mean they are on equal footing with other “communities.”

Brantford would be great. Loads of amenities relatively close. Peterborough, North Bay, Owen Sound and Sudbury all still suffer from the remote nature of their community. They are small communities that don’t have the same full package that a community closer to the GTA has.

The bigger communities typically have higher levels of tourist draw. This is why so many of us look at Niagara as a perfect Memorial Cup landing spot and are simply just waiting for the right team to be assembled. It’s not a big community but there is so many positives about the community and so many things to do outside the rink. Same goes for Ottawa when they get their new rink (probably around 4 years away). To me, those are two locations that are really high on the list provided the other pieces fall into place. Kingston is also really close.

I honestly feel like there are a small handful of teams that are on the short list and it will take quite a few rotations before the other small communities would come close to getting an opportunity. Once those other short list candidates get their turn, teams like London and Kitchener come back into the rotation again. I’d be hard pressed to see a Memorial Cup in any of those four locations (Brantford excluded) in the next 20 years even with a new facility.

 

[SSMHoundsFan]

I disagree. I do agree they would be on equal footing from a facility perspective, but that doesn’t mean they are on equal footing with other “communities.”

Brantford would be great. Loads of amenities relatively close. Peterborough, North Bay, Owen Sound and Sudbury all still suffer from the remote nature of their community. They are small communities that don’t have the same full package that a community closer to the GTA has.

The bigger communities typically have higher levels of tourist draw. This is why so many of us look at Niagara as a perfect Memorial Cup landing spot and are simply just waiting for the right team to be assembled. It’s not a big community but there is so many positives about the community and so many things to do outside the rink. Same goes for Ottawa when they get their new rink (probably around 4 years away). To me, those are two locations that are really high on the list provided the other pieces fall into place. Kingston is also really close.

I honestly feel like there are a small handful of teams that are on the short list and it will take quite a few rotations before the other small communities would come close to getting an opportunity. Once those other short list candidates get their turn, teams like London and Kitchener come back into the rotation again. I’d be hard pressed to see a Memorial Cup in any of those four locations (Brantford excluded) in the next 20 years even with a new facility.

To be fair the Sault is more remote than Sudbury and North Bay, at least in terms of travel time from the GTA and we have managed to put together several bids

 

[OMG67]

To be fair the Sault is more remote than Sudbury and North Bay, at least in terms of travel time from the GTA and we have managed to put together several bids

The Sault has a lot more of a desirable downtown with many more tourist attractions etc. The Sault is blessed with a stronger supporting community as well. It cannot just be boiled down to one thing as a comparison. The Sault has many favourable qualities compared to North Bay and Sudbury. Those qualities help to mitigate negatives regarding their remote location Far more than the other Northern Communities.

 

[HF92]

The Sault has a lot more of a desirable downtown with many more tourist attractions etc. The Sault is blessed with a stronger supporting community as well. It cannot just be boiled down to one thing as a comparison. The Sault has many favourable qualities compared to North Bay and Sudbury. Those qualities help to mitigate negatives regarding their remote location Far more than the other Northern Communities.

Bingo

 

[Petes1987]

I disagree. I do agree they would be on equal footing from a facility perspective, but that doesn’t mean they are on equal footing with other “communities.”

Brantford would be great. Loads of amenities relatively close. Peterborough, North Bay, Owen Sound and Sudbury all still suffer from the remote nature of their community. They are small communities that don’t have the same full package that a community closer to the GTA has.

The bigger communities typically have higher levels of tourist draw. This is why so many of us look at Niagara as a perfect Memorial Cup landing spot and are simply just waiting for the right team to be assembled. It’s not a big community but there is so many positives about the community and so many things to do outside the rink. Same goes for Ottawa when they get their new rink (probably around 4 years away). To me, those are two locations that are really high on the list provided the other pieces fall into place. Kingston is also really close.

I honestly feel like there are a small handful of teams that are on the short list and it will take quite a few rotations before the other small communities would come close to getting an opportunity. Once those other short list candidates get their turn, teams like London and Kitchener come back into the rotation again. I’d be hard pressed to see a Memorial Cup in any of those four locations (Brantford excluded) in the next 20 years even with a new facility.

Peterborough is not in a remote area. Toronto is only an hour and half away and Oshawa is only an hour away. They are a tourist town. They have a lot to offer has host which wasproven when they hosted the Memorial Cup in 1996. They got it over Ottawa and Barrie who also bid.

 

[OMG67]

Peterborough is not in a remote area. Toronto is only an hour and half away and Oshawa is only an hour away. They are a tourist town. They have a lot to offer has host which wasproven when they hosted the Memorial Cup in 1996. They got it over Ottawa and Barrie who also bid.

Things have changed a lot since 1996. The League has expanded. Many communities got new rinks. Teams have relocated to better communities.

Peterborough is now in the bottom tier of teams that would be considered for a Memorial Cup. You know I am fair and not the type of person to be punitive. I could be wrong but that is my assessment.

As I previously mentioned, there are a handful of teams on the verge of being awarded Hosting duties. Any of those teams that are on the verge that place bids and have competitive teams would get it over Peterborough.

London will always be in the running.
Kitchener will always be in the running
Once Ottawa gets their new building, they will be a shoe in provided they can be competitive in the right year
Niagara is on the verge.
Kingston is on the verge
If Hamilton gets a new rink or it works out in Brantford for a new rink, they will be high on the list.
Windsor is a solid spot
Oshawa is a solid spot and haven’t hosted since 1987
SSM was close this year

Those teams alone would be near 30 years of hosting. Petes need a new facility and a rejuvenated community. You could argue there is a lot to do in the summer but it isn’t the type of stuff that is not a full day away And is less conducive to the type of tourist that is coming for this tourney. Peterborough and area is more suited for outdoors trips whether it is cottaging or fishing etc. No one is going to Peterborough for a weekend to spend “downtown” to take in the sights and entertainment.

 

[bobber]

As long as Mark Hunter is around Niagara will have a tough time building up assets to compete for the Mem Cup. Something ain't right down in Wine Country.

 

[AttackSound]

I think same could be said for the other teams that were mentioned:

Peterborough
Brantford
North Bay
Owen Sound
Sudbury - throwing this in due to the age of their arena

If all these teams built new arenas, they'd be up to par with the rest of the league and stand on an equal footing for MC hosting rights IMO

As for Owen Sound we are well aware of the Bayshore and the age of our facilities the Bayshore Community Centre and J. D MacArthur Arena is 40 years old this year, and the city of Owen Sound and people in charge know exactly what is on the horizon and future of the facilities in the city.

Will Owen Sound and Grey-Bruce ever get a new facility for the Attack and OHL hockey one day it will happen, but until that day the facilities inside the Bayshore Community Centre are adequate for the market size the Attack are in.

It's funny how other teams come I to Owen Sound and all say the same old thing "wow, this building is small", the truth is that, that mindset is exactly what it is, it's a mindset that other teams visually see the low eyebeam ceiling and the close seating bowl and they all believe that the ice is small and the building is small.

The building is regulation, the ice is standard 200×85 feet, but the low hung video board and low ceiling eyebeams create an optical illusion of a small building that teams and players always seem to have difficulty getting used to playing in.

To sum it up, we the fans in Owen Sound understand how the league sees us and our building but I would say to those who have never watched a game away from their home rink take a trip Owen Sound and watch the Attack play on a Saturday night and I think you'll be surprised on how the building might be small but the atmosphere is quite big.

 

[Stellar29]

As for Owen Sound we are well aware of the Bayshore and the age of our facilities the Bayshore Community Centre and J. D MacArthur Arena is 40 years old this year, and the city of Owen Sound and people in charge know exactly what is on the horizon and future of the facilities in the city.

Will Owen Sound and Grey-Bruce ever get a new facility for the Attack and OHL hockey one day it will happen, but until that day the facilities inside the Bayshore Community Centre are adequate for the market size the Attack are in.

It's funny how other teams come I to Owen Sound and all say the same old thing "wow, this building is small", the truth is that, that mindset is exactly what it is, it's a mindset that other teams visually see the low eyebeam ceiling and the close seating bowl and they all believe that the ice is small and the building is small.

The building is regulation, the ice is standard 200×85 feet, but the low hung video board and low ceiling eyebeams create an optical illusion of a small building that teams and players always seem to have difficulty getting used to playing in.

To sum it up, we the fans in Owen Sound understand how the league sees us and our building but I would say to those who have never watched a game away from their home rink take a trip Owen Sound and watch the Attack play on a Saturday night and I think you'll be surprised on how the building might be small but the atmosphere is quite big.

I think it's more than just the rink in Owen Sound's case. The hotel accommodations are likely inadequate as they stand today. They are working on a new Marriott over by Canadian Tire which will help but still might not be enough. Also need more corporate sponsorship dollars to invest in an event like that but maybe Bruce Power foots that bill otherwise that would pose a significant hurdle.

At some point the arena will need to be replaced and with the community growth starting to pick up it will likely be a larger seating capacity which could at least make it a possibility even if it still remains extremely unlikely. That will certainly be something far down the road and likely require significant tax payer dollars to make happen.

 

[OMG67]

As for Owen Sound we are well aware of the Bayshore and the age of our facilities the Bayshore Community Centre and J. D MacArthur Arena is 40 years old this year, and the city of Owen Sound and people in charge know exactly what is on the horizon and future of the facilities in the city.

Will Owen Sound and Grey-Bruce ever get a new facility for the Attack and OHL hockey one day it will happen, but until that day the facilities inside the Bayshore Community Centre are adequate for the market size the Attack are in.

It's funny how other teams come I to Owen Sound and all say the same old thing "wow, this building is small", the truth is that, that mindset is exactly what it is, it's a mindset that other teams visually see the low eyebeam ceiling and the close seating bowl and they all believe that the ice is small and the building is small.

The building is regulation, the ice is standard 200×85 feet, but the low hung video board and low ceiling eyebeams create an optical illusion of a small building that teams and players always seem to have difficulty getting used to playing in.

To sum it up, we the fans in Owen Sound understand how the league sees us and our building but I would say to those who have never watched a game away from their home rink take a trip Owen Sound and watch the Attack play on a Saturday night and I think you'll be surprised on how the building might be small but the atmosphere is quite big.

Don’t confuse the conversation. I have ZERO issues with the facility in Owen Sound for the purposes of the Attack. As you stated, the facility suits the community perfectly and is cost effective. I would say the same thing about Barrie and their 3700 seats.

This is about whether Owen Sound is a capable community to host a Memorial Cup. Those are two different conversations entirely.

In my personal opinion, Owen Sound is one of the best franchises in the OHL measured by all the major scoring metrics.

 

[DWI Dale]

hounds are my team but i've always admired the owen sound organization and fanbase perhaps more than any other franchise in the OHL. where the london knights are the new york yankees, owen sound is the 2002 oakland athletics.

 

[dirty12]

As long as Mark Hunter is around Niagara will have a tough time building up assets to compete for the Mem Cup. Something ain't right down in Wine Country.

Are there multi-year above replacement level players Kitchener can offer Niagara? Consider this; O’Flaherty has been past on the depth chart by Levin, Klein, and 16 yr olds Czata and Galiyanov. London can waive Niagara cast-offs without retribution from agents, Niagara cannot.
I think Federkow, Levin, Paris, and Humphrey for 2, 3, 3, 5 picks and having London deal with the reality of Copeland’s career and the remainder of Copeland’s probable gold education package is looking good on Niagara right now.

 

[bobber]

Are there multi-year above replacement level players Kitchener can offer Niagara? Consider this; O’Flaherty has been past on the depth chart by Levin, Klein, and 16 yr olds Czata and Galiyanov. London can waive Niagara cast-offs without retribution from agents, Niagara cannot.
I think Federkow, Levin, Paris, and Humphrey for 2, 3, 3, 5 picks and having London deal with the reality of Copeland’s career and the remainder of Copeland’s probable gold education package is looking good on Niagara right now.

Just seems like a symbiotic relationship between the two franchises with players wanting out on both sides. Must all be legit and the league seems fine with the dealings. I think Hunter over values players some what because of the myth your getting better quality. He isn't in the business of handing out favors.

 

[OMG67]

Are there multi-year above replacement level players Kitchener can offer Niagara? Consider this; O’Flaherty has been past on the depth chart by Levin, Klein, and 16 yr olds Czata and Galiyanov. London can waive Niagara cast-offs without retribution from agents, Niagara cannot.
I think Federkow, Levin, Paris, and Humphrey for 2, 3, 3, 5 picks and having London deal with the reality of Copeland’s career and the remainder of Copeland’s probable gold education package is looking good on Niagara right now.

I think the issue with Niagara is us trying to figure out what they are doing? They are not following any sort of accepted path.

The Ice Dogs are a team that seems to need a bit of a rebuild. They have a couple young guys to build around but they are 16 and 17 year olds. They are likely a year away from making buyer type moves.

I am the first one in line to suggest a young team needs leaders that can help deliver the mail game in and game out regardless of whether they are rebuilding. You can’t just throw young guys to the wolves.

The question then becomes what you should pay for veterans that can help out but aren’t star players. O’Flaherty is probably a toss away. He doesn’t really have value so to speak so it really boils down to the draft picks. Is it responsible for a team in Niagara’s situation to use two 3rds and a 4th for a player like Crane at 19 years old?

No disrespect to crane. He is a decent player. He put up some solid numbers last year on a deep London team. Is he the type of player that can drive a line? No. He is the type of player that is more of a complimentary guy. If in the right situation, he can produce but on the Ice Dogs, he is more likely to settle in as a half a point per game type player. Not bad but not overly impactful. He will likely be a candidate ot return as an OA so they do get another year out of him so that’s good. But, at what cost? This market is somewhat depressed. Three decent picks for a player like Crane is questionable, especially for Niagara. THAT is the issue.

All the stuff regarding it being London is just fluff. Boil it down to whether the player is first worth the picks and second whether it is a solid strategic move for Niagara. I say NO on both accounts. I could care less about the London angle.

I believe if Niagara are patient, they could add a couple veteran 19 year olds much cheaper closer to the deadline.

 

[dirty12]

Just seems like a symbiotic relationship between the two franchises with players wanting out on both sides. Must all be legit and the league seems fine with the dealings. I think Hunter over values players some what because of the myth your getting better quality. He isn't in the business of handing out favors.

And London is the only team every season able/willing to trade good players that will not be front line players for the Knights.

 

[dirty12]

I think the issue with Niagara is us trying to figure out what they are doing? They are not following any sort of accepted path.

The Ice Dogs are a team that seems to need a bit of a rebuild. They have a couple young guys to build around but they are 16 and 17 year olds. They are likely a year away from making buyer type moves.

I am the first one in line to suggest a young team needs leaders that can help deliver the mail game in and game out regardless of whether they are rebuilding. You can’t just throw young guys to the wolves.

The question then becomes what you should pay for veterans that can help out but aren’t star players. O’Flaherty is probably a toss away. He doesn’t really have value so to speak so it really boils down to the draft picks. Is it responsible for a team in Niagara’s situation to use two 3rds and a 4th for a player like Crane at 19 years old?

No disrespect to crane. He is a decent player. He put up some solid numbers last year on a deep London team. Is he the type of player that can drive a line? No. He is the type of player that is more of a complimentary guy. If in the right situation, he can produce but on the Ice Dogs, he is more likely to settle in as a half a point per game type player. Not bad but not overly impactful. He will likely be a candidate ot return as an OA so they do get another year out of him so that’s good. But, at what cost? This market is somewhat depressed. Three decent picks for a player like Crane is questionable, especially for Niagara. THAT is the issue.

All the stuff regarding it being London is just fluff. Boil it down to whether the player is first worth the picks and second whether it is a solid strategic move for Niagara. I say NO on both accounts. I could care less about the London angle.

I believe if Niagara are patient, they could add a couple veteran 19 year olds much cheaper closer to the deadline.

I see a path. Re-tool while trying to be competitive enough to develop players and recruit draft picks. I think Niagara wanted/still want to be in a playoff race even with a minor deadline sell. Some of Bryant or Podolioukh, Lavoie or Crane or Klein, Flores or Vandenberg will not finish the season with the IceDogs imo.

 

[OMG67]

I see a path. Re-tool while trying to be competitive enough to develop players and recruit draft picks. I think Niagara wanted/still want to be in a playoff race even with a minor deadline sell. Some of Bryant or Podolioukh, Lavoie or Crane or Klein, Flores or Vandenberg will not finish the season with the IceDogs imo.

Pipe dream, sir. Pipe dream. Sorry for being blunt but that organization is lost and it is reflected on the ice. The level of talent and skill on that team is inconsequential when it is a travelling circus show. How are those kids supposed to put forth a truly honest effort when it is a revolving door of coaches. Each new coach comes in preaching something different….

 

[OMG67]

Saginaw looking poised to win tonight against the Spits. That would be 5 in a row. Tidy little streak. Looks like they are coming around. Good for them.

 

[bobber]

Saginaw jumped up to 5th in the west. One point out of 4th now. This thread could become obsolete if they keep things going.

 

[donjohnson]

Saginaw jumped up to 5th in the west. One point out of 4th now. This thread could become obsolete if they keep things going.

It was obsolete from the start...we appreciate the rest of the league's concern for our team but for the only time in team history, WE have full-faith in the coaches and GM. Drinkell had us poised for a chance at a championship before covid and then without the ability to trade Perfetti and others to recoup picks he has already put us into the position we're at today where there's a 4-page thread full of posters who think we're a disappointment. We cycled through coaches and GM's so much over the past 20+ years just looking for that right combination and while it took a long time, we finally are in a position where we are a hockey destination for junior players. We aren't (and never will be) London, Kitchener, Ottawa or any of the other hockey hotbeds in the OHL but we are no longer a place that kids won't report to and we're excited to show off our region for the Memorial Cup. We're still going to have bumps in the road along our journey but it's nice to see the team skating and Oke seems fully back from his injury and played well all week.

 

[bobber]

It was obsolete from the start...we appreciate the rest of the league's concern for our team but for the only time in team history, WE have full-faith in the coaches and GM. Drinkell had us poised for a chance at a championship before covid and then without the ability to trade Perfetti and others to recoup picks he has already put us into the position we're at today where there's a 4-page thread full of posters who think we're a disappointment. We cycled through coaches and GM's so much over the past 20+ years just looking for that right combination and while it took a long time, we finally are in a position where we are a hockey destination for junior players. We aren't (and never will be) London, Kitchener, Ottawa or any of the other hockey hotbeds in the OHL but we are no longer a place that kids won't report to and we're excited to show off our region for the Memorial Cup. We're still going to have bumps in the road along our journey but it's nice to see the team skating and Oke seems fully back from his injury and played well all week.

Great post! IMO this thread was unnecessary from the beginning. Saggy was picked as the host because the league liked the promotion they offered. The Mem Cup is the CHL super bowl. It's meant to showcase the greatest junior hockey leagues in the world. Of course there will be sour grapes from fans whose franchises put in a bid. Can't blame them I guess. There are many teams that will likely never host because the league wants a certain size venue. It is what it is and we might as well enjoy it.

 

[Gouin Street]

Saginaw will be ok. A bad start, yes. But with a couple of trades, and some improvement with their game results..... they will slowly creep up and be 1 of the contending teams in the West. West looks like a good fight for the top 5 (sorry not sure what east teams are like). Unfortunately, whoever finishes 5th, will not have home ice in the 1st round.

 

[Slap Shot Rick]

And just like that Saginaw puts together a 5 game winning streak and moves up to second in the West Division and fifth in the Western Conference. A lot this had to do with getting a healthy goalie Andrew Oke back in the lineup, and also many of the players regaining their scoring touch.