Cossa vs Wallstedt

[VanJack]

There's been a few outstanding goaltenders come out of the WHL....Carey Price is probably the best.....and Carter Hart comes to mind.

But statistically speaking, for a number of years now the best goaltenders are coming out of Europe. They just seem to do a better job of identifying players with potential and then getting them into the intense training and coaching that brings out that potential.

So without having seen either guy play, from strictly an analytics standpoint, the goalie from Europe (specifically Sweden, Finland or Russia) will likely come out further ahead.

 

[staveNsteel]

There's been a few outstanding goaltenders come out of the WHL....Carey Price is probably the best.....and Carter Hart comes to mind.

But statistically speaking, for a number of years now the best goaltenders are coming out of Europe. They just seem to do a better job of identifying players with potential and then getting them into the intense training and coaching that brings out that potential.

So without having seen either guy play, from strictly an analytics standpoint, the goalie from Europe (specifically Sweden, Finland or Russia) will likely come out further ahead.

They are much easier to project coming out of Europe/Russia.. these goalies can bounce around junior/professional leagues in the span of a week or two, get reps against men and close to NHL competition if the teams see fit. This absolutely helps in their development, adjusting to tougher competition and using those tweaks back at a lower level.

CHL goalies are stuck.. a goalie like Cossa has shown that he was too good (the team as a whole) for that division last year, but has to stay put. Next season, he'll be facing the same level of competition, which isn't going to improve his game. Once he finally moves to the AHL, he'll adjust, same with the NHL.. it's not as much as a negative as it is a longer wait.

Wallstedt, because of his situation, should adjust far quicker to the NHL game, while theoretically, Cossa should take more time. None of this means that one will be better than the other, but that Wallstedt (who I believe is better), should have a shorter timeline.

 

[Pengu]

Wallstedt is money in the bank. Right now it is pretty clear who looks better....

 

[raymond23]

Wallstedt is money in the bank. Right now it is pretty clear who looks better....

It's pretty tough watching Wallstedt dominate the way he is. Especially because he's a Swede and we love our Swedes.

That being said, Wallstedt was always going to be better out of the gate. Yzerman is betting on Cossa's physical tools eventually taking him to a level that Wallstedt can't reach. Hopefully Cossa gets an opportunity for Canada and runs with it.

 

[newfy]

Wallstedt is money in the bank. Right now it is pretty clear who looks better....

Cossa has been lights out this year, not getting games in the WJC while the other does doesnt really say much. Wallstedt could be better but playing good against Slovakia isnt gonna have me bet money on whose gonna be better in the NHL

 

[GTA]

Cossa has been lights out this year, not getting games in the WJC while the other does doesnt really say much. Wallstedt could be better but playing good against Slovakia isnt gonna have me bet money on whose gonna be better in the NHL

Lights out seems like a stretch. His stats are way worse than last year - definitely not justifying that high pick right now.

 

[Oddbob]

Lights out seems like a stretch. His stats are way worse than last year - definitely not justifying that high pick right now.

Yeah, his stats are brutal, man he will never play past the WHL! What stats justify the pick exactly??????????

 

[Oddbob]

Doesn't matter who does better in these tourneys, they mean nothing in terms of what they may or may not do in the NHL. Many players have had great WJC's and completely bombed or missed the NHL completely.

 

[Frk It]

Cossa has been lights out this year, not getting games in the WJC while the other does doesnt really say much.

How doesn't it? He should be Canada's clear cut 1G when you look at the other 2 guys on that team.

 

[57special]

Canada isn't about developing Cossa, they are about winning this thing, so it's likely that Garand or Brochu will end up the main goalie. Wallstedt appears to be better for now, but with goalies it's almost always a long game, which suits the Wings timeline just fine. Just as Seider, Wallinder, Edvinsson are hitting their primes in 3-5 years will be the perfect time for Cossa to start getting NHL games.

Conversely, the Wild can use Wallstedt as soon as two years from now, when Talbot's contract is up, and they will only have a 1B at best in Kahkonen.

 

[57special]

How doesn't it? He should be Canada's clear cut 1G when you look at the other 2 guys on that team.

What's wrong with the other two goalies?

 

[Frk It]

What's wrong with the other two goalies?

You don't think a guy with Cossa's traits and that was drafted top 15 should be able to beat out those two? I think most were expecting him to do just that.

 

[newfy]

How doesn't it? He should be Canada's clear cut 1G when you look at the other 2 guys on that team.

You don't think a guy with Cossa's traits and that was drafted top 15 should be able to beat out those two? I think most were expecting him to do just that.

Its a weird year. Cossa got the second half of one pre tournament game where he went in cold, got like 8 shots and let in a bad goal. It was enough for a coach like Cameron to not trust him over the returning player thats a draft year older than him.

So if you think a bad goal on 8 shots in a pretournament game with no warm up is worth drawing any conclusions on the future over, I wouldnt sweat him not playing right now. If they had 3 pretournament games and he got lit up I would look at the situation a lot differently, but Cameron is a dinosaur and Cossa lost the job under really weird circumstances

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think Wallstedt’s floor is a little higher than Cossa, but his ceiling is a little lower. I think both guys project as NHL starters. I’m not sure there’s much reason for a hot take at this point. Wallstedt has been slightly better so far in their D+1’s, but the gap isn’t big and hasn’t been for about the last year. Still too early to tell.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Meanwhile, Edmonton is getting shelled without Cossa in net.

 

[Dotter]

It's definitely feeling like the Wings picked McCollum over Markstrom all over again. And I'm even more worried this is going to be a bust of a pick because Detroit has been f***ing horrendous at developing goalies the past 30 years.

You do realize Yzerman drafted Andrei Vasilevskiy, right?

If Yzerman trades up to select a goalie, you shut up and pay attention. There's a reason why Yzerman traded up to get Cossa and selected before Wallstedt. Your armature eyes might not see it just yet.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

You do realize Yzerman drafted Andrei Vasilevskiy, right?

If Yzerman trades up to select a goalie, you shut up and pay attention. There's a reason why Yzerman traded up to get Cossa and selected before Wallstedt. Your armature eyes might not see it just yet.

I'm a huge fan of Yzerman and the work he's done but the guy isn't infallible. He's got a better track record at the draft in his 3 years picking for Detroit than Holland did in his last 3 years but there have been a few choices he made that don't look that good in hindsight (2019 2nd and 3rd rounds for instance). It's perfectly fine to question whether that Detroit outsmarted themselves by picking Cossa over Wallstedt.

What my "amateur" eyes (which is what I'm assuming you meant instead of armature) can see is that Wallstedt has been a downright dominant goalie in a men's league and is the starting goalie for the Swedish WJC team while playing really strong against Russia, save for a few goals that bounced off teammates, and also shutting out a surprisingly good Slovak team when the Swedish team was playing like shit.

Meanwhile Cossa by the numbers has not played as well this season as last season, probably in part to him not playing only against weak divisional opponents, gave up a string of bad goals in the summer prospects tournament, and is not playing well enough to win the starting goalie spot on team Canada for whatever reason.

Say what you want, but right now Wallstedt is doing better than Cossa.

 

[Dotter]

I'm a huge fan of Yzerman and the work he's done but the guy isn't infallible. He's got a better track record at the draft in his 3 years picking for Detroit than Holland did in his last 3 years but there have been a few choices he made that don't look that good in hindsight (2019 2nd and 3rd rounds for instance). It's perfectly fine to question whether that Detroit outsmarted themselves by picking Cossa over Wallstedt.

What my "amateur" eyes (which is what I'm assuming you meant instead of armature) can see is that Wallstedt has been a downright dominant goalie in a men's league and is the starting goalie for the Swedish WJC team while playing really strong against Russia, save for a few goals that bounced off teammates, and also shutting out a surprisingly good Slovak team when the Swedish team was playing like shit.

Meanwhile Cossa by the numbers has not played as well this season as last season, probably in part to him not playing only against weak divisional opponents, gave up a string of bad goals in the summer prospects tournament, and is not playing well enough to win the starting goalie spot on team Canada for whatever reason.

Say what you want, but right now Wallstedt is doing better than Cossa.

1). Nobody is infallible. If you think otherwise, you have infallible logic. But who is less infallible and proven track record? Mr. Yzerman.

2). Yzerman didn't select one over the other for what they can do "right now". He drafted the goalie who he believes will have the most impactful NHL career. He's playing the long game (i.e., development) as he should. Lets be honest, neither goalies are NHL goalies right now! So at the end of the day nobody is better right now for what really matters: being a starting stud NHL goalie.

We don't get to interview these kids. NHL brass do. While we can throw a dart at a board to guess who will most likely be the better NHL in 10 years (because luck is really the most important factor here), I am guessing Cossa has some key attributes Yzerman Co. love which Wallstedt didn't possess -- other than 3-inches in height.

Like I said if Yzerman trades up to select a goalie, you shut up and pay attention. That's a HUGE endorsement.

 

[Zach716]

1). Nobody is infallible. If you think otherwise, you have infallible logic. But who is less infallible and proven track record? Mr. Yzerman.

2). Yzerman didn't select one over the other for what they can do "right now". He drafted the goalie who he believes will have the most impactful NHL career. He's playing the long game (i.e., development) as he should. Lets be honest, neither goalies are NHL goalies right now! So at the end of the day nobody is better right now for what really matters: being a starting stud NHL goalie.

We don't get to interview these kids. NHL brass do. While we can throw a dart at a board to guess who will most likely be the better NHL in 10 years (because luck is really the most important factor here), I am guessing Cossa has some key attributes Yzerman Co. love which Wallstedt didn't possess -- other than 3-inches in height.

Like I said if Yzerman trades up to select a goalie, you shut up and pay attention. That's a HUGE endorsement.

Goalies are a crapshoot, some just slightly less than others. It's not near as certain drafting them as it is skaters, and even that that's shaky for many teams (but entirely different scouts endorsing the 2 for a GM usually)

 

[Dotter]

Goalies are a crapshoot, some just slightly less than others. It's not near as certain drafting them as it is skaters, and even that that's shaky for many teams (but entirely different scouts endorsing the 2 for a GM usually)

Goalies are crapshoots. I agree.

From the outside looking in, the most logical sense would be Yzerman not trade up to take Cossa and just select whoever was available a few picks later.

But if you LOVE your guy, you take him! Which is what happened here. Yzerman snagged him up like he just found his next Andrei Vasilevskiy. I hope he did.

 

[erikhamren]

Im a swede so i say Wallstedt

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Im a swede so i say Wallstedt

Very honest answer.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Cossa ends the WJC with a perfect record, no goals allowed.
Wallstedt allowed 3.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

1). Nobody is infallible. If you think otherwise, you have infallible logic. But who is less infallible and proven track record? Mr. Yzerman.

2). Yzerman didn't select one over the other for what they can do "right now". He drafted the goalie who he believes will have the most impactful NHL career. He's playing the long game (i.e., development) as he should. Lets be honest, neither goalies are NHL goalies right now! So at the end of the day nobody is better right now for what really matters: being a starting stud NHL goalie.

We don't get to interview these kids. NHL brass do. While we can throw a dart at a board to guess who will most likely be the better NHL in 10 years (because luck is really the most important factor here), I am guessing Cossa has some key attributes Yzerman Co. love which Wallstedt didn't possess -- other than 3-inches in height.

Like I said if Yzerman trades up to select a goalie, you shut up and pay attention. That's a HUGE endorsement.

Ehhhh Yzerman had quite a few wet farts for first round picks in Tampa. Thankfully, that doesn't seem to have carried into Detroit, but his 1sts in Tampa were hit or miss.

 

[Dotter]

Ehhhh Yzerman had quite a few wet farts for first round picks in Tampa. Thankfully, that doesn't seem to have carried into Detroit, but his 1sts in Tampa were hit or miss.

Seider got walked (embarrassingly) a few times early in his NHL career. Should we be worried over the course of his next 10 years?

Or can we chalk that up to a rookie being a rooking making rookie mistakes? I'm just saying we probably shouldn't be declaring one a bust over the other based on, what... 4 months after drafting a kid. Lol

Clearly Yzerman is playing the long game. Not the short game. And that he thinks Cossa will be the better NHL goalie when the time comes.

If busts and winners are decided 4 months after the draft day, maybe NHL should work out a way to do a draft 4 months later instead. But I don't think it works that way. I think people are seeing what Edvinsson, Raymond, Seider are doing and thinking... "hey, why can't all our prospects do that!?!?". "They must be busts!!".

WJC is one of those "what have you done for me lately" events for fans to give bragging rights. It's cute.