Cossa vs Wallstedt

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

No disrespect to Cossa's accomplishments thus far but it seems he got hot at the right time.

I would always value a draft eligible player succeeding again pro players in Sweden higher than a hot goalie on the best junior team in Canada playing only divisional games and no playoffs.

Same. Like I said, my worry is that Detroit picked McCollum over Markstrom again. Or the very worst case scenario: They picked Malcolm Subban over Andrei Vasilevski.

 

[vanarchy]

How dare you guys doubt Stevie Y

 

[MBH]

People saw Wallstedt's name in front of Cossa all year and without knowing another thing, don't take kindly to change.
We see this every f***ing year.

 

[newfy]

What made Detroit pick Cossa over Wallstedt was Chris Osgood interviewed Cossa, they hit it off as two western Canadian boys do, and he recommended Cossa over Wallstedt to the Wings brass. Not underlying analytics. Not quality of competition. This is a pick that has me hoping for a miracle that Cossa can also be a true franchise level goalie but as of right now I think that will only be Wallstedt. It's definitely feeling like the Wings picked McCollum over Markstrom all over again. And I'm even more worried this is going to be a bust of a pick because Detroit has been f***ing horrendous at developing goalies the past 30 years.

Lol I didnt realise you had this much crazy insider knowledge all these years on the wings board... come on man, lots of people had Cossa ahead by draft day

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

People saw Wallstedt's name in front of Cossa all year and without knowing another thing, don't take kindly to change.
We see this every f***ing year.

Could you be biased? I don’t claim to know which one will be better, but even towards the end of the year McKenzie and Pronman kept saying that slightly more scouts had Wallstedt ahead of Cossa. This poll reflects that as well.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Lol I didnt realise you had this much crazy insider knowledge all these years on the wings board... come on man, lots of people had Cossa ahead by draft day

The Osgood interview with Cossa isn't insider knowledge. It was discussed by one of the Detroit Red Wings journalists. Maybe Regner? I'll dig up the interview.

 

[Frk It]

What made Detroit pick Cossa over Wallstedt was Chris Osgood interviewed Cossa, they hit it off as two western Canadian boys do, and he recommended Cossa over Wallstedt to the Wings brass. Not underlying analytics. Not quality of competition.

So you think the Wings scouting staff and front office is grossly incompetent, then?

Or maybe they watched both players and thought Cossa was better. Seems quite a bit more likely to me.

Personally, I would have opted for Wallstedt. But I can see the appeal of taking Cossa. Again, he has been good at every single level he has played at. He didn't just have a good 10, 20, 30 game stretch.

And your take on his (unimpressive) athleticism is literally counter to every single person I have heard talk about him, so you might want to ask yourself if maybe you are missing something?

 

[Frk It]

Lol I didnt realise you had this much crazy insider knowledge all these years on the wings board... come on man, lots of people had Cossa ahead by draft day

McKenzie said 4 out of the 10 scouts he polled had Cossa over Wallstedt.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

So you think the Wings scouting staff and front office is grossly incompetent, then?

Or maybe they watched both players and thought Cossa was better. Seems quite a bit more likely to me.

Personally, I would have opted for Wallstedt. But I can see the appeal of taking Cossa. Again, he has been good at every single level he has played at. He didn't just have a good 10, 20, 30 game stretch.

And your take on his (unimpressive) athleticism is literally counter to every single person I have heard talk about him, so you might want to ask yourself if maybe you are missing something?

I'm not saying they're incompetent. I'm saying they're human and are not infallible.

Again I point to the quality of competition: Supersized kid playing on a monster of a team in the weakest division in the WHL versus big kid playing on a mediocre team in the 3rd best league in the world. How much was Cossa really tested?

As for the elite athleticism? Where? I'm not saying he's NOT athletic, but elite athleticism in a goalie prospect is Askarov. Cossa sprawls a lot but just isn't as fast for his style as the guys that are elite.

 

[simonedvinsson]

I don't know much about stats or analytics, but I've watched both play, and Cossa blew my mind. He looks faster than Wallstedt. Perhaps that's just because he's so big, and my mind glitched out watching a giant move with such speed and grace. Supposedly, the expert analytics people think Wallstedt is faster. I don't think Wallstedt is a bad goaltending prospect, but I don't see the Corey Price in him that others do. Cossa blew me away every time I saw him play.

 

[MuckOG]

I don't know much about stats or analytics, but I've watched both play, and Cossa blew my mind. He looks faster than Wallstedt. Perhaps that's just because he's so big, and my mind glitched out watching a giant move with such speed and grace. Supposedly, the expert analytics people think Wallstedt is faster. I don't think Wallstedt is a bad goaltending prospect, but I don't see the Corey Price in him that others do. Cossa blew me away every time I saw him play.

I'm no expert on goalies either, but my understanding is that Wallstedt is more efficient than Cossa in getting into position for a shot and thus doesn't need to be "faster" and rely on his athleticism to react to a shot like Cossa.

 

[newfy]

I'm not saying they're incompetent. I'm saying they're human and are not infallible.

Again I point to the quality of competition: Supersized kid playing on a monster of a team in the weakest division in the WHL versus big kid playing on a mediocre team in the 3rd best league in the world. How much was Cossa really tested?

As for the elite athleticism? Where? I'm not saying he's NOT athletic, but elite athleticism in a goalie prospect is Askarov. Cossa sprawls a lot but just isn't as fast for his style as the guys that are elite.

Youre saying him and Ozzy hit it off as good western Canadians and thats the only reason they took him. If true, youre saying theyre incompetent. His athletic ability is talked about everywhere, if youre not seeing it maybe you need to ask yourself why? He was projected right there with Wallstedt on draft day, its not crazy that he went before

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Youre saying him and Ozzy hit it off as good western Canadians and thats the only reason they took him. If true, youre saying theyre incompetent. His athletic ability is talked about everywhere, if youre not seeing it maybe you need to ask yourself why? He was projected right there with Wallstedt on draft day, its not crazy that he went before

Not the only reason. But in the interview it was said that Osgood convinced Detroit to take Cossa.

And maybe I am missing something in his athletic ability? We'll see. I'm still willing to bet that Wallstedt will be a better goalie than Cossa in the long run.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

I'm no expert on goalies either, but my understanding is that Wallstedt is more efficient than Cossa in getting into position for a shot and thus doesn't need to be "faster" and rely on his athleticism to react to a shot like Cossa.

I would also wager that playing with a defense consisting of former NHL players like Erik Gustafsson who is 33 and older experienced SEL players will make his reads a bit easier as the more experienced defenseman won't make the same kind of mistakes 17 and 18 yr old would make in the WHL thus improving his efficiency.

 

[MuckOG]

I would also wager that playing with a defense consisting of former NHL players like Erik Gustafsson who is 33 and older experienced SEL players will make his reads a bit easier as the more experienced defenseman won't make the same kind of mistakes 17 and 18 yr old would make in the WHL thus improving his efficiency.

Maybe. I was just restating what I've heard/read from scouts prior to the draft.

 

[theslatcher]

I would also wager that playing with a defense consisting of former NHL players like Erik Gustafsson who is 33 and older experienced SEL players will make his reads a bit easier as the more experienced defenseman won't make the same kind of mistakes 17 and 18 yr old would make in the WHL thus improving his efficiency.

Should watch the games. Luleå's team defense down the stretch was horrid and kept leaving their goalies out to dry.

Also: Wallstedt's reads has been great everywhere he has gone.

 

[Gopher13]

So much of this is hype. How many games do you think most people have seen either Cossa or Wallstedt play? Wallstedt has benefitted from years of hype since he was 6'3 and 200 pounds as a 14 year old...he is still same size.

 

[BluesyShoes]

Where should the league get goalies then? The majority of players still come from the CHL. It is still the best league to develop prospects, no matter what position.

My argument would be that it is a raw talent league, it lacks systems and structure relative to overseas pro leagues. The bread and butter of NHL goalies is being able to read structure and making good gambles. I don't think CHL is a hindrance, but I don't think you see as much of that ability in prospects as you would in other leagues, as a scout. I think Cossa will be better, but a lot of that is the franchise he was drafted into. I think Wallstedt is showing closer to his ceiling.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

My argument would be that it is a raw talent league, it lacks systems and structure relative to overseas pro leagues. The bread and butter of NHL goalies is being able to read structure and making good gambles. I don't think CHL is a hindrance, but I don't think you see as much of that ability in prospects as you would in other leagues, as a scout. I think Cossa will be better, but a lot of that is the franchise he was drafted into. I think Wallstedt is showing closer to his ceiling.

I don’t see how the franchises they were drafted into gives Cossa some kind of benefit, goalie is the only position that the Wild have historically developed well, maybe D too.

 

[BluesyShoes]

I don’t see how the franchises they were drafted into gives Cossa some kind of benefit, goalie is the only position that the Wild have historically developed well, maybe D too.

Wild are great for D and goalies, but I feel Wallstedt is farther along in his development. I feel Cossa is more raw, so him going to the Wings where he won't be rushed I think is great for him. Had he gone to a franchise that may rush him, I think Wallstedt would have been a better pick.

 

[staveNsteel]

Wild are great for D and goalies, but I feel Wallstedt is farther along in his development. I feel Cossa is more raw, so him going to the Wings where he won't be rushed I think is great for him. Had he gone to a franchise that may rush him, I think Wallstedt would have been a better pick.

Why is it a hindrance for Wallstedt to be further along in his development? As a goalie especially, this kid has been able to grow and read plays like not many others his age. If anything, this gives him a leg up on the competition and he can work on other holes in his game and improve.

What makes no sense is to say that an 18yr old prospect is done/almost done in his development... He'll learn more in the SHL, he'll learn in the AHL, he'll learn in the NHL.

I think there are so many that are looking at Cossa and saying, "this is what he could be - look at that size/movement" and are now overlooking the strong package in front of them and understating how much he has already developed and put into his game.

It's like my neighbour.. every 2 years he trades in his car, hasn't finished paying for it, to get a new model because of what it could be - all along telling me how great his current car is (of course only up until he decides to swap it out, then he's only talking about the faults).

 

[woinf]

Cossa because you don't bet against the Yzerplan

(I know nothing about goalie prospects because they tend to be a crapshoot)

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Wild are great for D and goalies, but I feel Wallstedt is farther along in his development. I feel Cossa is more raw, so him going to the Wings where he won't be rushed I think is great for him. Had he gone to a franchise that may rush him, I think Wallstedt would have been a better pick.

Wings are atrocious at developing goalies. If anything you could make the argument that because of this fact alone Cossa has a higher likelihood of failing than Wallstedt would in the Wings system because Wallstedt's game is much more refined.

 

[staveNsteel]

Cossa because you don't bet against the Yzerplan

(I know nothing about goalie prospects because they tend to be a crapshoot)

You can say that goaltending takes time.. but I would disagree with it being a crapshoot! If you look at the top 2 goalies taken since 2012, you can see that goaltending scouting has gotten pretty strong over the last decade.

Of this list, 12 of the 18 (not counting the 2021 draftees) played at least 1 NHL game last season. 8 were starters or started for a long stretch during the season. 8 in total (counting the 2021 draftees) were taken with a first round pick, but goalies being so scarce and taken less, you have to count these as first goalie selections.

Yes there are always hidden gems, Europeans that come over, guys that develop later, but really, from this list, usually the top 2 goalies taken in the draft get NHL playing time. Fucale is the only real bust (I'm looking pre-2018 for that part) and Subban is a strong disappointment, but still gets an NHL salary and gets into games. Some are still prospects and others will take time, but getting one of the two top rated goalies in the draft seems to work out well more often than not.

2012

19 - Vasilevskiy
24 - Subban

2013

36 - Fucale
44 - Jarry

2014

36 - Demko
37 - Nedeljkovic

2015

22 - Samsonov
42 - Blackwood

2016

48 - Hart
56 - F. Gustavsson

2017

26 - Oettinger
54 - Luukkonen

2018

39 - O. Lindbom
62 - Rodrigue

2019

13 - Knight
36 - Kochetkov

2020

11 - Askarov
46 - Commesso

2021

15 - Cossa
20 - Wallstedt

 

[nergish]

Wallstedt.
But they're both fantastic goaltending prospects.

Wally reminds me of Jacob Markstrom (but as a fully developed NHLer, not a prospect). Big, explosive, but controlled. When compared to peers like Askarov or Knight, he's somewhere right in the middle. Not as aggressive and boisterous as Askarov, but not as sleepy and icy-veined as Knight.

Cossa reminds me of Devan Dubnyk, or a little Ben Bishop. Just an absolute monster in net - in full gear, there's not much to shoot at. I don't find him as dynamic as Wallstedt, but he is more talented than either guy I've compared him to in terms of technical ability. He seems like a guy who will take the reins when he's ready, and never let them go. Gonna be a steady rock for the Wings for a long time.

Again, both fantastic prospects. But young goalies are impossible to prognosticate.