OT: Coronavirus XXXI: Tighter Alberta Restrictions Through The Holiday Season, Stay Safe Everyone

[Ol' Jase]

‘We’re in big trouble’: Alberta double-bunking in ICUs, limiting oxygen due to surge in hospitalizations | The Star

On Monday, David Zygun, Edmonton zone medical director for Alberta Health Services, said Alberta has 173 spaces for general adult ICU beds, with the flexibility to expand to a total of 425 ICU beds as needed.

He said they are maximizing occupancy at hospitals by “cohorting” patients, putting them in unused spaces and looking at “unconventional” spaces such as other ICU units, for example the cardiac ICU.

He said over the last week 20 additional ICU beds have been allocated in Edmonton and another 10 in Calgary.

“There’s no doubt that the hospital system is under significant strain,” Zygun said. “Having said that, we’ve planned extensively for it and we are executing those plans as the demand increases.”

If COVID-19 cases continue to rise at their current rate, the province may have to consider more extreme measures such as using post-operative recovery rooms or operation rooms to treat ICU patients, Zygun said.

“We do have areas which are purposely made for those types of situations where there are two headboards, in a room with dual oxygen supplies and air supply,” he said.

Vipond said while it’s true those spaces are equipped to handle more than one patient, the real question is how the hospitals will find enough specialized workers, such as intensivist nurses and respiratory therapists, to treat them.
“They don’t come off a shelf. You can’t repurpose another health-care worker to be a respiratory therapist,” Vipond said. “They are very, very specialized individuals.”

Zygun said the province is looking at personnel who have recently worked in ICUs and is providing further training in certain specialties so “non-traditional providers” can support critical care teams.

 

[nabob]

And from the global news story they're also researching the effects of the virus getting into the blood vessels of the brain and doing serious damage. They're trying to figure it out and at this point it appears there is cause for concern as to long term brain and other organ damage with this virus regardless of the mechanism of how (ie direct viral damage, how it gets to the blood stream more easily, why it might cause greater antibody/immune response etc). I'm not saying for sure this virus will cause many long term irreversible damage but reputable sources are covering this and saying it's a significant concern for the medical and scientific community and they are studying and researching it now.

I agree it is a cause for concern if they do find it to be happening.
We sure have come a long way from Tam telling us in the spring that Covid isn’t a threat to Canadians and we should just carry on with our lives.

 

[Stoneman89]

‘We’re in big trouble’: Alberta double-bunking in ICUs, limiting oxygen due to surge in hospitalizations | The Star



If COVID-19 cases continue to rise at their current rate, the province may have to consider more extreme measures such as using post-operative recovery rooms or operation rooms to treat ICU patients, Zygun said.

Look, ICU beds do indeed require special care and training, and that will be the challenge. The doctor in the article himself, says they will need to have some extra training for people as we progress. No one will argue that. But your assertion as to the number of ICU beds available was clearly pulled out of your ass, and hereby reduces your cred on here by 25 points. Please refrain from posting for one weeks penalty, and come back fresh and invigorated and in a less pissy mood.

 

[Raab]

Where are you getting your stats that most would die in the next year?

Sorry, my mistake after looking at it again it appears 60-79 year old females may be giving up the largest chunk of life.

 

[Raab]

Well, you're wrong.

These kind of actuarial tables exist, heres one;

Risk of death by age and sex (bandolier.org.uk)

See above

 

[Ol' Jase]

Look, ICU beds do indeed require special care and training, and that will be the challenge. The doctor in the article himself, says they will need to have some extra training for people as we progress. No one will argue that. But your assertion as to the number of ICU beds available was clearly pulled out of your ass, and hereby reduces your cred on here by 25 points. Please refrain from posting for one weeks penalty, and come back fresh and invigorated and in a less pissy mood.

On Monday, David Zygun, Edmonton zone medical director for Alberta Health Services, said Alberta has 173 spaces for general adult ICU beds, with the flexibility to expand to a total of 425 ICU beds as needed.

 

[nabob]

‘We’re in big trouble’: Alberta double-bunking in ICUs, limiting oxygen due to surge in hospitalizations | The Star



If COVID-19 cases continue to rise at their current rate, the province may have to consider more extreme measures such as using post-operative recovery rooms or operation rooms to treat ICU patients, Zygun said.

“with the flexibility to expand to a total of 425 ICU beds as needed.”

Sounds like your own link shows that there’s the ability to have 425 ICU bed if required. Hasn’t been required yet as there no point in creating all those beds and relocating all that staff of hundreds of bed would just sit empty. It’s like you only pick and chose the numbers that suit your narrative and don’t think about the context it’s being presented in. Does a hotel get catering for 425 guests when they know there’s less than 173 coming for the meal? You don’t give the people running AHS enough credit.

 

[Raab]

The content of this post is so dishonest I’m honestly shocked it’s allowed to be posted.

Prove me wrong, those are simply facts.

 

[Raab]

2 Million people and 136 of them are in ICU, yup its a huge percentage. I dont even know what the percentage really is? 0.0068% yikes thats scary stuff.

Were 4.1M people...

 

[bellagiobob]

In respect of where the thread has gone I should bump my own post from this AM. yep yep

Lol, you called it perfectly. Felt like I was attending an indoor political rally for a bit there. Even put my mask on in case I caught something.

 

[Stoneman89]

Lol, you called it perfectly. Felt like I was attending an indoor political rally for a bit there. Even put my mask on in case I caught something.

Think I'm going to call it a night. Seems like 3-4 of the usuals came on here tonight looking for a fight, and it looks like we got suckered into giving it to them. Hopefully everyone calms down after a good night's rest, has a great dump tomorrow morning, and enjoys life a bit. It's just too short to be holed up in a corner, frightened to death by every bit of news out there. Take care, all.

 

[nabob]

Think I'm going to call it a night. Seems like 3-4 of the usuals came on here tonight looking for a fight, and it looks like we got suckered into giving it to them. Hopefully everyone calms down after a good night's rest, has a great dump tomorrow morning, and enjoys life a bit. It's just too short to be holed up in a corner, frightened to death by every bit of news out there. Take care, all.

At least there’s still some things in life I can still count on

 

[Ol' Jase]

“with the flexibility to expand to a total of 425 ICU beds as needed.”

Sounds like your own link shows that there’s the ability to have 425 ICU bed if required. Hasn’t been required yet as there no point in creating all those beds and relocating all that staff of hundreds of bed would just sit empty. It’s like you only pick and chose the numbers that suit your narrative and don’t think about the context it’s being presented in. Does a hotel get catering for 425 guests when they know there’s less than 173 coming for the meal? You don’t give the people running AHS enough credit.

An ICU bed isn’t active without the full staff compliments, including one nurse per bed. This isn’t cherry-picking numbers, this is how this stuff works.

Your hotel catering comparable is absolutely laughable and goes a long, long way to explain your understanding on this matter.

Add to that you don’t have a clue as to how taxed the entire system is right now, how AHS is actually trying to deal with this, and how pissed off everyone is that the lockdown now going on wasn’t done three or four weeks ago.

But, hey, it’s only about you anyway, and people working 12-16 hour days and risking their lives to help those infected are just “fear-mongers” and shouldn’t be listened to because HFOil knows better. It’s awesome.

 

[nabob]

An ICU bed isn’t active without the full staff compliments, including one nurse per bed. This isn’t cherry-picking numbers, this is how this stuff works.

Your hotel catering comparable is absolutely laughable and goes a long, long way to explain your understanding on this matter.

your inability to understand that they don’t have 400+ active ICU beds right now because they don’t need them clearly shows that your claim to be a healthcare worker and expert is false.

it’s comparing supply with demand. If you are still well below demand you don’t rush out to more than double your supply, you make plans for when it’s needed...which is exactly what your links prove AHS has done. Your entire rant is pointless as your own links prove you clueless

 

[Ol' Jase]

your inability to understand that they don’t have 400+ active ICU beds right now because they don’t need them clearly shows that your claim to be a healthcare worker and expert is false.

it’s comparing supply with demand. If you are still well below demand you don’t rush out to more than double your supply, you make plans for when it’s needed...which is exactly what your links prove AHS has done. Your entire rant is pointless as your own links prove you clueless

Lol.

 

[nabob]

Lol.

Lol that’s your last resort when your own article shows how wrong you are. Sad.

your fear mongering and misinformation needs to stop. Your inability to comprehend the content of the articles you link really shows you have no clue what you’re talking about.

You claiming to be a hospital expert with 11 years experience looks like a complete lie right now. And to top it of Stoneman provides real words and facts from a nurse of over 30 years and you dismiss it because it doesn’t suit your narrative. Sad.

 

[nabob]

But, hey, it’s only about you anyway, and people working 12-16 hour days and risking their lives to help those infected are just “fear-mongers” and shouldn’t be listened to because HFOil knows better. It’s awesome.

no it’s not about me. It’s about the direct quotes from AHS in the articles you posted. It’s about Stonemans wife who’s a nurse with 30+ years experience who laughs at what you have been saying tonight. It’s about the statistics and facts that prove you wrong.
You’re the only one who seems to make it about himself. You’re the one posting from two accounts claiming to be a hospital expert while talking down to people who actually do work in hospitals.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

aren't ICU's almost always full to begin with?

 

[harpoon]

It’s funny how every single time HK is losing a debate he always pulls out the “I have a friend who...” card.

And he’s actually posting screenshots of stuff from facebook that literally says ‘posted by a friend’. Yet to hear folks like Fury and SK talk it’s only the ‘deniers and the flat earthers’ who get trapped in facebook echo chambers.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Lol that’s your last resort when your own article shows how wrong you are. Sad.

your fear mongering and misinformation needs to stop. Your inability to comprehend the content of the articles you link really shows you have no clue what you’re talking about.

You claiming to be a hospital expert with 11 years experience looks like a complete lie right now. And to top it of Stoneman provides real words and facts from a nurse of over 30 years and you dismiss it because it doesn’t suit your narrative. Sad.

Lol.

 

[Ol' Jase]

aren't ICU's almost always full to begin with?

It depends.

There are specific ICU beds for different thing beyond just general care. There are beds set aside for burn victims, beds that specialize in specialized cardiac cases and pediatric specific beds.

One of the main issues here is that ICU stays tend to be much longer than normal hospital stays.

 

[Ol' Jase]

no it’s not about me. It’s about the direct quotes from AHS in the articles you posted. It’s about Stonemans wife who’s a nurse with 30+ years experience who laughs at what you have been saying tonight. It’s about the statistics and facts that prove you wrong.
You’re the only one who seems to make it about himself. You’re the one posting from two accounts claiming to be a hospital expert while talking down to people who actually do work in hospitals.

I think it’s cute that someone who would compare hotel catering to ICU level healthcare thinks their opinion actually matters in any way, shape or form.

And I work as a patient liaison that works directly with cancer patients and hospitals.

 

[nabob]

I think it’s cute that someone who would compare hotel catering to ICU level healthcare thinks their opinion actually matters in any way, shape or form.

And I work as a patient liaison that works directly with cancer patients and hospitals.

I think it’s cute that you think supply and demand isn’t a thing in hospitals. That they don’t allocate resources as needed. That during a once in a lifetime pandemic they can allocate resources in a way to address needs as they change. What you’ve said tonight shows a complete lack of understand to how AHS is run and what they are capable of doing (even though the links you post state it clearly). Obviously ICU patient care is more complex, I was trying to compare it to something very simple so that you might grasp the concept of using resources to fit needs. It’s cute that you think your opinion is the only one that matters. What the heads of AHS say doesn’t matter to you, what nurses with over 30 years of front line experience say doesn’t matter to you. It’s cute that you think it’s all about you.

 

[Ol' Jase]

I think it’s cute that you think supply and demand isn’t a thing in hospitals. That they don’t allocate resources as needed. Obviously ICU patient care is more complex. It’s cute that you think your opinion is the only one that matters. It’s cute that you think it’s all about you.

Lol. Ok, hotel guy.

You’re right though. ICU patients call a few days or even a week in advance to book a spot. It’s not like ICU admissions from acute care can happen in a matter of minutes and require intensive processes.

The staff required to meet the increase are also just waiting for such a “demand”. They’re not doing anything else, so it’s not an issue.

This has just become laughable and really quite telling. I’m not surprised people think like this, I just always find it hilarious.

 

[nabob]

Lol. Ok, hotel guy.

You’re right though. ICU patients call a few days or even a week in advance to book a spot. It’s not like ICU admissions from acute care can happen in a matter of minutes and require intensive processes.

The staff required to meet the increase are also just waiting for such a “demand”. They’re not doing anything else, so it’s not an issue.

This has just become laughable and really quite telling. I’m not surprised people think like this, I just always find it hilarious.

Here’s your own article that you linked again. Read it one more time.
patients

“The province aimed to address concerns over capacity Wednesday, when chief medical officer of health Dr. Deena Hinshaw announced Alberta Health Services was bolstering capacity, adding approximately 2,250 acute-care beds and 425 ICU “in the coming weeks” for patients with COVID-19.”

Now remember, that was from a few weeks ago. So the “coming weeks” is now present time. What does that tell you? That the Province and AHS saw a need, and addressed it. Glad they’re the ones in charge of our healthcare and not you.

what’s sad is you denying the words of the heads of AHS and of Hinshaw. You’re the one denying the facts. You’re the one who think his opinion is the only one that matters. If you continue to insist that you know more than the heads of AHS then there’s clearly no point in feeding your ignorance any further. Laugh all you want, it’s usually the first reaction of someone who doesn’t have a clue of what’s happening.