Coronavirus Thread - mod note post 23 & 541

[FabricDetails]

The makes me think of like The Blob or something.

Look at all that surrounding red. It's on its way back, Michigan...



AHHH!!! Hehe.

 

[Kronwalled55]

Until we're in a position where

A. You can get a test anywhere/anytime you desire and
B. You get the results back instantly within a few minutes or an hour

This thing will continue to spread like wildfire. I live in the thick of it in Georgia and many places won't even take you to get tested. You have to book an appointment way in advance (many places won't even follow up with you to book said appointment), be visibly showing symptoms, and THEN you have to wait 5-7 days to get your results back. Sorry, but that's unacceptable 4 months into a global pandemic. Even those that are playing it 'safe' out there like myself can't even effectively control it because we can't even learn if we have/had it in a decent timeframe.

 

[Bench]

Until we're in a position where

A. You can get a test anywhere/anytime you desire and
B. You get the results back instantly within a few minutes or an hour

This thing will continue to spread like wildfire. I live in the thick of it in Georgia and many places won't even take you to get tested. You have to book an appointment way in advance (many places won't even follow up with you to book said appointment), be visibly showing symptoms, and THEN you have to wait 5-7 days to get your results back. Sorry, but that's unacceptable 4 months into a global pandemic. Even those that are playing it 'safe' out there like myself can't even effectively control it because we can't even learn if we have/had it in a decent timeframe.

Man, you're telling me. My partner was possibly exposed to someone with it, but we won't find out until the end of the week.

So we've just been acting like we could have it and completely staying away from others, but how many people have that luxury to completely stay in and work from home on the chance you caught something?

I feel like I'll develop symptoms before I find out their test results, let alone mine.

 

[Ricelund]

It took us 9 days to get test results in NYC after waiting 2.5 hours in line at an urgent care. They told us it would take 2-3 days.

While we were waiting, we found a way to get instant tests. Had to drive about 30 minutes away to get them.

Our nation's world-class testing at work!

 

[Bench]

It took us 9 days to get test results in NYC after waiting 2.5 hours in line at an urgent care. They told us it would take 2-3 days.

While we were waiting, we found a way to get instant tests. Had to drive about 30 minutes away to get them.

Our nation's world-class testing at work!

Ugh. What a pain you had to go through. Everything ended up alright, I take it?

I hope I find out before the weekend what's up. Odds are even if this guy comes up positive, we should be OK, but still gotta play it safe. Feeling fine now, but it's another 8ish days until I'll know I'm in the clear.

Two neighborhood friends came down with it pretty bad. Over the last few months the virus has moved directly into my immediate social circle, so from an anecdotal personal perspective, things have never felt worse.

 

[Ricelund]

Ugh. What a pain you had to go through. Everything ended up alright, I take it?

Yeah, all good. Thanks for asking. I was surprised to find out that we didn't have the antibodies - I figured that I would've caught it being on the subway every day in the weeks leading up to the shutdown.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I stopped reading after the first five words. Not even going to finish the rest.

Will you listen to what a Republican governor has to say?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/07/16/larry-hogan-trump-coronavirus/?arc404=true

 

[Red Stanley]

Will you listen to what a Republican governor has to say?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/07/16/larry-hogan-trump-coronavirus/?arc404=true

Hogan is trying to play both sides of the fence. Media has not been kind to him before, including the WaPo, so what better way to endear himself to said media than to "go against" the guy he never supported in the first place? John Bolton knows.

America's most popular governor: the lavishly corrupt Larry Hogan [R-MD]
The Most Popular Crook in America

Also noticed how the article left out what the Washington Post's own opinion on the matter was back in Jan and Feb. Let's see ...

"How our brains make coronavirus seem scarier than it is" published on Jan 31.
"The flu is worse than coronavirus" published Feb 1.
"Why we should be wary of an aggressive government response to coronavirus" published Feb 3.

I'd wonder how the msm didn't break their necks doing such a sharp 180, if I didn't already know they had no journalistic spines to begin with.

 

[jkutswings]

Hogan is trying to play both sides of the fence. Media has not been kind to him before, including the WaPo, so what better way to endear himself to said media than to "go against" the guy he never supported in the first place? John Bolton knows.

America's most popular governor: the lavishly corrupt Larry Hogan [R-MD]
The Most Popular Crook in America

Also noticed how the article left out what the Washington Post's own opinion on the matter was back in Jan and Feb. Let's see ...

"How our brains make coronavirus seem scarier than it is" published on Jan 31.
"The flu is worse than coronavirus" published Feb 1.
"Why we should be wary of an aggressive government response to coronavirus" published Feb 3.

I'd wonder how the msm didn't break their necks doing such a sharp 180, if I didn't already know they had no journalistic spines to begin with.

Noting the abundant flaws in the other levels of government and media doesn't excuse how poorly it's been handled at the top.

 

[Red Stanley]

Noting the abundant flaws in the other levels of government and media doesn't excuse how poorly it's been handled at the top.

Someone has to, unless we're just gonna ignore the blatant double standard and revisionist history. White House cabinet, governors, congresspeople, giant media corporations, they're all powerful entities with enough resources at their disposal to render them ineligible for a free pass. If people don't want to hear any counterpoints, then I guess I'll stop posting in this thread. I f***ing hate it anyway.

 

[jkutswings]

Someone has to, unless we're just gonna ignore the blatant double standard and revisionist history. White House cabinet, governors, congresspeople, giant media corporations, they're all powerful entities with enough resources at their disposal to render them ineligible for a free pass. If people don't want to hear any counterpoints, then I guess I'll stop posting in this thread. I f***ing hate it anyway.

I never advocated for giving a free pass to anybody. I'm saying that if everybody has botched things to one extent or another, then the leadership to fix things should start at the top and cascade from there.

 

[Winger98]

Hogan is trying to play both sides of the fence. Media has not been kind to him before, including the WaPo, so what better way to endear himself to said media than to "go against" the guy he never supported in the first place? John Bolton knows.

America's most popular governor: the lavishly corrupt Larry Hogan [R-MD]
The Most Popular Crook in America

Also noticed how the article left out what the Washington Post's own opinion on the matter was back in Jan and Feb. Let's see ...

"How our brains make coronavirus seem scarier than it is" published on Jan 31.
"The flu is worse than coronavirus" published Feb 1.
"Why we should be wary of an aggressive government response to coronavirus" published Feb 3.

I'd wonder how the msm didn't break their necks doing such a sharp 180, if I didn't already know they had no journalistic spines to begin with.

it's almost as if as more information became available that opinions changed.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

it's almost as if as more information became available that opinions changed.

That's fine, there is also the crowd that likes to pretend that stuff wasn't being said by the likes of Fauci early on when this is covered. To really dumb it down it is kind of like the Wings should have started rebuilding in 2009 crowd, I have a hard time taking people that want to pretend different timelines on this stuff seriously either.

There has been a very disappointing response to this by our leadership on so many levels. But ultimately we have three branches of government and one of them puts a great deal of power in the executive branch and Trump has certainly failed there so I think that is an appropriate talking point.

But I think it is fair to point out some of what people are complaining about is how our system was setup to operate. Now that the country is setup that way is also generally a right issue in terms of the newer age champion of states rights and smaller federal government on certain elements. But I think the response to this has been muddled by where we have evolved as a country in my opinion.

In a lot of ways it does feel like we are getting what we deserve for the decisions we have been making for years as a voting populous.

You only hope that after our reckoning there is an honest attempt to get more productive discourse and unity in this country. What we have seen thus far, honestly makes me think it will actually only get worse, but hey I can hope people are going to snap into reality any day now. I doubt the leadership on the left, right and whatever different universe some of these leader seem to be living in are going to help, that would require them working together and doing their actual jobs... Most seem to excuse them of this because they want to be on the hard-line agenda of one. Our system was setup to be run with checks and balances, it has gone to win at all costs with the human elements that run it, I have never been more dispirited in terms of where we are as a country to be honest. I find what is happening appalling and I do blame a lot of people in power not just the one guy most want to talk about, though he can have a big slice of the pie.

 

[MBH]

So I've been tracking COVID in Sweden and Michigan. I don't really know what the f*** is going on in Michigan.
Both both have a population of 10 million or so.
Both saw north of 5,000 deaths.
Both have seen their daily death count 7-day average fall to 2-5 percent of what it was even as case count data been up and down.

Sweden never locked down. They did close high schools and colleges for a spell. They did encourage working from home. They said no gatherings over 50 people.
Michigan did lockdown. But strangely, as we've opened, the death count has flatlined.

Why? Sunshine and vitamin D?
Or has this virus done the bulk of its damage and mostly burned out?

Are these states/regions that got smashed reaching some level of herd immunity? Is the idea that we need 60-70 percent of people with anti-bodies for herd immunity just a bunch of BS?

 

[Bench]

Is the idea that we need 60-70 percent of people with anti-bodies for herd immunity just a bunch of BS?

Would you like a sincere answer to this?

But the short version is, no, there's nothing to suggest a core concept of epidemiology for the last 100 years is suddenly turned on its head.

There's a dozen other explanations, including the one you bring up constantly - that testing and reporting numbers are variable.

 

[jkutswings]

But the short version is, no, there's nothing to suggest a core concept of epidemiology for the last 100 years is suddenly turned on its head.

What I'm about to say is not directed at any one individual, or even at the people on this message board, but at society at large.

We now live in a world when 100 years of science can hold less influence over large numbers of people than one person claiming something is fake news on social media (with no further clarification, let alone facts to back it up).

And I don't necessarily mean that specifically as a dig at Trump, either. Society continues to move away from what is reasoned and what is objective, to what is instant and stimulating (good or bad), regardless of what really happened. We've gone from relatively few sources of information that most people tended to trust (whether they should have trusted said sources or not is a conversation for another day) to a near infinite supply of claims from all directions, with frequent contradictions, and it's turning into an endless waterfall of noise that is increasingly tough to decipher for any real information to believe.

The phrase, "don't let the truth get in the way of a good story" seems to be rampant around the globe, and it makes handling a worldwide crisis significantly more difficult.

 

[Winger98]

That's fine, there is also the crowd that likes to pretend that stuff wasn't being said by the likes of Fauci early on when this is covered. To really dumb it down it is kind of like the Wings should have started rebuilding in 2009 crowd, I have a hard time taking people that want to pretend different timelines on this stuff seriously either.

There has been a very disappointing response to this by our leadership on so many levels. But ultimately we have three branches of government and one of them puts a great deal of power in the executive branch and Trump has certainly failed there so I think that is an appropriate talking point.

But I think it is fair to point out some of what people are complaining about is how our system was setup to operate. Now that the country is setup that way is also generally a right issue in terms of the newer age champion of states rights and smaller federal government on certain elements. But I think the response to this has been muddled by where we have evolved as a country in my opinion.

In a lot of ways it does feel like we are getting what we deserve for the decisions we have been making for years as a voting populous.

You only hope that after our reckoning there is an honest attempt to get more productive discourse and unity in this country. What we have seen thus far, honestly makes me think it will actually only get worse, but hey I can hope people are going to snap into reality any day now. I doubt the leadership on the left, right and whatever different universe some of these leader seem to be living in are going to help, that would require them working together and doing their actual jobs... Most seem to excuse them of this because they want to be on the hard-line agenda of one. Our system was setup to be run with checks and balances, it has gone to win at all costs with the human elements that run it, I have never been more dispirited in terms of where we are as a country to be honest. I find what is happening appalling and I do blame a lot of people in power not just the one guy most want to talk about, though he can have a big slice of the pie.

I'm sure there is, but I don't think that's what was happening here or what's happening with all of the crap we're seeing now about how Fauci was wrong about this or that. Our information in February wasn't close to what it is now, and we've seen opinions shift. The last thing we should do is dismiss a person because they take in new information and shift their own opinions accordingly. How nice would it be if we did that more often just as hockey fans around here?

I've been trying to generate more of a response to this for a day or so, and I don't know if I can. I don't really disagree, and I don't want to wander too far into politics. I think our president is failing us. We need someone there who can pull different factions together, who can chart a clear course that people have faith in, etc. and I just don't think this administration is capable of it.

I don't know what our political climate is going to look like in ten, or even five, years. A huge thing would be if more young people would get out and vote. I think our politics would shift pretty quickly if that happened, but that's probably true for every group of people who don't have great voter turnout numbers. I think the people who make the most noise in our national political scene don't necessarily represent the opinion of the people who will head out and vote. C19 might throw a wrench into everything, but this November should be interesting.

 

[Red Stanley]

it's almost as if as more information became available that opinions changed.

Sure, yet this logic seems to apply to some, but not others. Hence the double standard and revisionist history.

 

[Red Stanley]

What I'm about to say is not directed at any one individual, or even at the people on this message board, but at society at large.

We now live in a world when 100 years of science can hold less influence over large numbers of people than one person claiming something is fake news on social media (with no further clarification, let alone facts to back it up).

And I don't necessarily mean that specifically as a dig at Trump, either. Society continues to move away from what is reasoned and what is objective, to what is instant and stimulating (good or bad), regardless of what really happened. We've gone from relatively few sources of information that most people tended to trust (whether they should have trusted said sources or not is a conversation for another day) to a near infinite supply of claims from all directions, with frequent contradictions, and it's turning into an endless waterfall of noise that is increasingly tough to decipher for any real information to believe.

The phrase, "don't let the truth get in the way of a good story" seems to be rampant around the globe, and it makes handling a worldwide crisis significantly more difficult.

The traditional news outlets are running on nothing but brand loyalty and name recognition. I can assure you they're nothing like they used to be. Most corporate media adopted the FOX News sensationalist style of reporting when they saw how lucrative it was. There's little investigative journalism going on there, if any at all. It's a 24-hour cycle of infotainment dominated by opinion pieces. Industry standards for accuracy and impartiality have all but disappeared as nobody is enforcing them. What's left of their viewers don't seem to care, either, and are mostly there for confirmation bias rather than actual news. If you want a more accurate representation of reality you have to do some legwork, but it's worth it. There's a reason why online content creators are murdering the industry giants in terms of viewership.

 

[jkutswings]

The traditional news outlets are running on nothing but brand loyalty and name recognition. I can assure you they're nothing like they used to be. Most corporate media adopted the FOX News sensationalist style of reporting when they saw how lucrative it was. There's little investigative journalism going on there, if any at all. It's a 24-hour cycle of infotainment dominated by opinion pieces. Industry standards for accuracy and impartiality have all but disappeared as nobody is enforcing them. What's left of their viewers don't seem to care, either, and are mostly there for confirmation bias rather than actual news. If you want a more accurate representation of reality you have to do some legwork, but it's worth it. There's a reason why online content creators are murdering the industry giants in terms of viewership.

All true. But what I was driving at is, for example:

"Here's the science of what wearing a mask in public can and cannot do to help get past this and start to return things to normal."

vs

"I heard The Kardashians posted on Instagram about masks being totally bogus."

Is a crazy aspect of trying to educate people on what to do about COVID-19.

 

[Run the Jewels]

All true. But what I was driving at is, for example:

"Here's the science of what wearing a mask in public can and cannot do to help get past this and start to return things to normal."

vs

"I heard The Kardashians posted on Instagram about masks being totally bogus."

Is a crazy aspect of trying to educate people on what to do about COVID-19.

Peter Navarro, who is an assistant to Predident Trump, wrote an op-ed the other day attacking Dr Fauci. There is a very strong push among Republicans to tarnish Fauci's reputation. It's how you politicize one of the leading experts in our country and set the stage so you can fire him due to the fact he is committed to his job, rather than defending a president who has been totally incompetent and has no plan whatsoever to try to address the spread of the virus. Fauci is non-partisan and has served both Republican and Democrat administrations. He's not a Kardashian.

 

[Red Stanley]

All true. But what I was driving at is, for example:

"Here's the science of what wearing a mask in public can and cannot do to help get past this and start to return things to normal."

vs

"I heard The Kardashians posted on Instagram about masks being totally bogus."

Is a crazy aspect of trying to educate people on what to do about COVID-19.

No need to use the Kardashians in this example. There's plenty of disagreement inside the medical community on the issue, particularly when it comes to homemade cloth masks that are recommended by the CDC for public use. Not everyone has access to surgical masks. In this case, which science do you believe as a layman?

 

[Red Stanley]

Peter Navarro, who is an assistant to Predident Trump, wrote an op-ed the other day attacking Dr Fauci. There is a very strong push among Republicans to tarnish Fauci's reputation. It's how you politicize one of the leading experts in our country and set the stage so you can fire him due to the fact he is committed to his job, rather than defending a president who has been totally incompetent and has no plan whatsoever to try to address the spread of the virus. Fauci is non-partisan and has served both Republican and Democrat administrations. He's not a Kardashian.

Well, Trump is still backing Fauci ... for now. Fauci's testimony about masks was very interesting. I'd like to know who recommended to misinform the general public for the sake of making sure medical professionals didn't run out of masks.

 

[jkutswings]

No need to use the Kardashians in this example. There's plenty of disagreement inside the medical community on the issue, particularly when it comes to homemade cloth masks that are recommended by the CDC for public use. Not everyone has access to surgical masks. In this case, which science do you believe as a layman?

In this case, I can acknowledge the science that a mask is designed to mitigate the droplets that I breathe out, protecting others from myself to some extent, as opposed to being a force field to hide behind, protecting me from everybody else. I can also accept that there is great debate in the scientific community about the degree of effectiveness, depending on material of construction, proper positioning, and other variables.

There are discussions to be had from this approach. Not so much when the approach is to dismiss the notion of a mask entirely due to what political party stands to rise or fall in the standings from people wearing it (or protesting against wearing it, for that matter).

 

[Bench]

There's plenty of disagreement inside the medical community on the issue, particularly when it comes to homemade cloth masks that are recommended by the CDC for public use. Not everyone has access to surgical masks. In this case, which science do you believe as a layman?

Are you referring to the difference between airborne and droplet protections?

Or are you suggesting the medical community is split on the usefulness of masks? Because the usefulness part is not really a serious debate, as every hospital has some kind of mask policy and has always offered masks for folks even long before this virus. The one I work at had stations throughout the hospital with disposable masks... Well, until COVID wiped out the mask supply. Point is, cloth masks have always been a recommended tool.

Homemade masks are an imperfect solution. They are only adequate for droplet protections. Large particulate. They do not filter out COVID-19, for example. For that you would need a true respirator with a fitted seal. Doctors and staff that worked with infectious diseases would frequently have these available already.

But... cloth masks do reduce viral load distributed both outgoing and incoming. If you cough with a cloth mask on, the amount of virus that spreads off into the air is reduced significantly. Not entirely, but it helps a lot. Likewise, you are less likely to directly breathe in a large viral load with a mask over your face.

Viral load refers to how much you actually breath in. It's quite possible to inhale a little virus and not get sick. Or if you do, it will not be as severe.

Also take into consideration that spread is often done through touching a surface then your face and vice versa. Masks help cut this down as well.

Among experts in epidemiology, over 85% plan on wearing them until at least the winter. And over 50% for at least a year. Only 4% said they would stop wearing them now.

So it's not really a big split in the community about the usefulness of masks. I hope all this helps shed a little light on the we use them and how professionals overwhelming recommend they are used now.

When 511 Epidemiologists Expect to Fly, Hug and Do 18 Other Everyday Activities Again