Coronavirus discussion thread (no political debates)

[ULF_55]

They are Doctors because I looked them up and their profiles and pics. Seem to be doctors reporting their experiences. I don't know what the criteria is in Canada but I would like to have links to clarification to exactly how things are reported in Canada and what the Criteria is if you have this information. If you can provide that I would be glad to look them over.

I did look up one of the doctors and she is ummm opinionated and has a platform she uses. Medical people aren't without agendas.

I can only speak to Alberta death reports ... nothing nefarious with our reporting.

 

[ULF_55]

Well, your point is valid but I think you meant the opposite (that I may be trying to make nothing out of something that is likely there). There's going to be an analysis at the end of this. The measures we're talking are having a dramatic effect on the economy and people's lives. It's certainly reasonable for me to just ask the question if we've overreached.

Sweden will be my measuring stick. If they come out of this no worse than us health-wise without our draconian shutdown, I will have a lot more questions.

How Sweden and Denmark represent opposite Scandinavian COVID-19 responses

 

[Mess]

I did look up one of the doctors and she is ummm opinionated and has a platform she uses.

I can only speak to Alberta death reports ... nothing nefarious with our reporting.

In BC our Health minister Bonny Henry answered this very question the other day.. She stated that they do not get their stats from the hospitals at time of death for cause of death.

Covid-19 deaths stats are provided to Ministry of health via the Coroner autopsy posthumously for verification purposes of isolating and identify the provinces stats including age, race, underlying conditions etc.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Well, your point is valid but I think you meant the opposite (that I may be trying to make nothing out of something that is likely there). There's going to be an analysis at the end of this. The measures we're talking are having a dramatic effect on the economy and people's lives. It's certainly reasonable for me to just ask the question if we've overreached.

Sweden will be my measuring stick. If they come out of this no worse than us health-wise without our draconian shutdown, I will have a lot more questions.

There will be many who will suffer greatly and you are right to be concerned. Right now we had 25% of 21M Cdns who work for a living apply for emerg funds. And that number will go up considerably still as many have not even completed their applications. We also have around 8% of people on EI. and that was end of March numbers. So that number will go up too. We are at a minimum of 1 out of 3 people who were working last year not working today. Best guess it is likely 40% by end of today. The great depression was 50% (or 1 out of 2 workers) and it lasted it severe mode for 2 full years and another 8 years more in recession. Too many people thinking this will be over by end of spring and things will leap back. Well folks it is not going to leap back. I HOPE things can reasonably return in July so we can start road to recovery so that 2020 is only a bad recession. Lets hope. But folks hold on to as much as your cash as you can. If it goes into depression you may have to live with what you got now for a couple years.

 

[rumman]

Not well but haven’t given up.
Currently in line at Costco, 40 minutes so far. Hopefully in the store in the next 20/30.

what a world

brave man, doing a Costco run during this s**tshow. As to the country music thing, perhaps easing yourself into the genre would be a better tactic? Try this album on for size:




fun fact- last album the late great Billy Preston played on........................

 

[DanM]

It really bothers me watching politicians and media people talk about "flattening" the curve and if we keep isolating we will eventually get back to normal with regards to jobs.

The problem is many regular people will never get their jobs back.

Sad and the worst part of this thing.

 

[Discoverer]

Sweden will be my measuring stick. If they come out of this no worse than us health-wise without our draconian shutdown, I will have a lot more questions.

Well the data sure looks ugly so far: Sweden is doing significantly less testing, has nearly double the infection rate, and has 70% more deaths despite having only a quarter the population of Canada.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It really bothers me watching politicians and media people talk about "flattening" the curve and if we keep isolating we will eventually get back to normal with regards to jobs.

The problem is many regular people will never get their jobs back.

Sad and the worst part of this thing.

They have to say that. If they start talking about reality you will have panic everywhere which only makes things worse. Read a good book about the great depression and you will see similar patterns in what was said politically and media wise in papers. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Allow a hundred thousand deaths in 2 months and use da Swedish approach or keep deaths to under ten thousand with current Canadian plan of govt funding. It is heart breaking.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

It really bothers me watching politicians and media people talk about "flattening" the curve and if we keep isolating we will eventually get back to normal with regards to jobs.

The problem is many regular people will never get their jobs back.

Sad and the worst part of this thing.

Agreed.

And if I may add another thing that bothers me about hitting the peak and/or flattening the curve. The number of cases isn't going to go up in perpetuity. It will eventually start dropping off and slide down the other side of the curve. But people make it sound like when that happens, we'll soon be free and clear and we can get back to how things were. Doesn't really work like that. There is still a ways to go before we can get to remotely close to how things used to be.

 

[thewave]

I did look up one of the doctors and she is ummm opinionated and has a platform she uses. Medical people aren't without agendas.

I can only speak to Alberta death reports ... nothing nefarious with our reporting.

With respect, that's not a document. If you do perhaps come across public data that people can sink their fangs into I would love to see it. What you said can be said about anyone anything though, even your PM, Health Minister, Bankers, Economists, Media groups based on who advertises on the platforms etc. It's good that you brought that up so that we can also delve deeper into GOV / Pharma / Bay St. etc though and expand the line of questioning.

 

[stealth1]

It really bothers me watching politicians and media people talk about "flattening" the curve and if we keep isolating we will eventually get back to normal with regards to jobs.

The problem is many regular people will never get their jobs back.

Sad and the worst part of this thing.

They figure 500,000 jobs will be lost from this. The Prime Minister figures this will last til summer. Til there is a vaccine large gatherings will probably be mom existent for a long while. No concerts, parks or beaches will be open. Restaurants, bars and other stores will be open but limited capacity.

 

[Pookie]

It really bothers me watching politicians and media people talk about "flattening" the curve and if we keep isolating we will eventually get back to normal with regards to jobs.

The problem is many regular people will never get their jobs back.

Sad and the worst part of this thing.

It’s also important to realize what flattening the curve means.

It doesn’t mean the virus is gone. It doesn’t mean we are all immune. It doesn’t mean there is a cure.

It means that the number of infected are at a manageable level for the health care system.

“Back to normal” is a misnomer. Some businesses open up under strict protocols. Maybe kids get back to school in some way.

But all it takes is a couple of folks returning from a place where there is community spread and the taps get shut off again.

Optimism is good. So is realism.

 

[DanM]

Agreed.

And if I may add another thing that bothers me about hitting the peak and/or flattening the curve. The number of cases isn't going to go up in perpetuity. It will eventually start dropping off and slide down the other side of the curve. But people make it sound like when that happens, we'll soon be free and clear and we can get back to how things were. Doesn't really work like that. There is still a ways to go before we can get to remotely close to how things used to be.

Agreed

 

[DanM]

It’s also important to realize what flattening the curve means.

It doesn’t mean the virus is gone. It doesn’t mean we are all immune. It doesn’t mean there is a cure.

It means that the number of infected are at a manageable level for the health care system.

“Back to normal” is a misnomer. Some businesses open up under strict protocols. Maybe kids get back to school in some way.

But all it takes is a couple of folks returning from a place where there is community spread and the taps get shut off again.

Optimism is good. So is realism.

I am not saying I disagree with flattening?

I am saying if they want realism don't say things will get back to normal with jobs, because most will never have that happen, and good luck getting a new job with no company wanting to take on extra expenditures.

 

[thewave]

I am not saying I disagree with flattening?

I am saying if they want realism don't say things will get back to normal with jobs, because most will never have that happen, and good luck getting a new job with no company wanting to take on extra expenditures.

Don't forget the ongoing "threat" from GOV that it can all be shut down. What incentive would I have to open a business (I started my first when I was a teenager). I don't see a reason to own and operate a small / medium business in a country so unstable. It's not worth the risk anymore. I would rather cash out and start up in a more stable place like Sweden that has not shut down. I am very keen on seeing the mortality rate over there right now.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

They figure 500,000 jobs will be lost from this. The Prime Minister figures this will last til summer. Til there is a vaccine large gatherings will probably be mom existent for a long while. No concerts, parks or beaches will be open. Restaurants, bars and other stores will be open but limited capacity.

It is way too early to know how many jobs will be gone forever. We are pretty likely to temporarily lose 10.5M out of 21M jobs pretty soon. We are at 1 out of 3 confirmed end of March. I truly hope we can put back 10M people into economy by end of 2020 but if I was betting on that I would bet no.

 

[thewave]

It is way too early to know how many jobs will be gone forever. We are pretty likely to temporarily lose 10.5M out of 21M jobs pretty soon. We are at 1 out of 3 confirmed end of March. I truly hope we can put back 10M people into economy by end of 2020 but if I was betting on that I would bet no.

I can tell you right now, I would never invest in this country again if there is not an A) Investigation, B) Full Transparency AND possibly C) Referendum on the use of measures and the criteria. Please explain to a small / med business owner how the risk is justified at this point? I know it just isn't for many many many entrepreneurs when some bug can go around and cause you to go under almost instantly.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

It really bothers me watching politicians and media people talk about "flattening" the curve and if we keep isolating we will eventually get back to normal with regards to jobs.

The problem is many regular people will never get their jobs back.

Sad and the worst part of this thing.

Just heard on the radio 10% of all restaurants in Canada have closed outright now. That's crazy already and we're just at the beginning of the shutdown.

 

[thewave]

And what would that number be if we were living life normally the entire time. You always fail to think of this variable whenever you say "it's the same as the flu".

Fauci said if we did nothing it would be a little worse than the regular influenza in the New England Journal of Medicine I believe. I have linked it in the past multiple times. That is his writing. I imagine there will have to be an investigation in to all these charges being made by Doctors and reports of layoffs in medical field and lack of people in Hospitals.

I am sure you can appreciate the due diligence required in all matters that cost millions of people their homes, jobs etc. I mean I am sure you would never condemn a VERY THOROUGH investigation into that, would you?

 

[al secord]

I don't know about this "flattening the curve" stuff, but my liver is definitely a different shape these days.

 

[Peasy]

Fauci said if we did nothing it would be a little worse than the regular influenza in the New England Journal of Medicine I believe. I have linked it in the past multiple times. That is his writing. I imagine there will have to be an investigation in to all these charges being made by Doctors and reports of layoffs in medical field and lack of people in Hospitals.

I am sure you can appreciate the due diligence required in all matters that cost millions of people their homes, jobs etc. I mean I am sure you would never condemn a VERY THOROUGH investigation into that, would you?

You've already linked me that journal... And you always highlight the point of fatality rate will not be as high as SARS and MERS, which is pretty obviously. This has been known for quite awhile, and isn't the main concern for this virus.

I really don't know why you keep bringing him up considering he goes against everything that you want or think should happen...

You've been running around like a chicken with its head cut off since this all went down. Are you still bringing up the paper that was rejected by its peers and that you still swear by it?

 

[Pookie]

I am not saying I disagree with flattening?

I am saying if they want realism don't say things will get back to normal with jobs, because most will never have that happen, and good luck getting a new job with no company wanting to take on extra expenditures.

Yeah. I wasn’t debating you. More just adding on to your point.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I can tell you right now, I would never invest in this country again if there is not an A) Investigation, B) Full Transparency AND possibly C) Referendum on the use of measures and the criteria. Please explain to a small / med business owner how the risk is justified at this point? I know it just isn't for many many many entrepreneurs when some bug can go around and cause you to go under almost instantly.

Sure some small businesses will go under and never come back. Much like we are gonna lose too many lives. But most will come back at some point and bring back some jobs over time. The banks are providing 6 month payback deferrals if you ask. The real issue is how fast businesses bring back employees. I am not prepared to hazard a guess but pretty sure no way it is by this summer and probably no longer than 3 years out or 18 months after vaccine comes out. Now that said if da wage subsidy of 75% gets passed and applies across da board with no strings for as long as pandemic lasts then it will be closer to this summer than 3 years out. My issue is I am holding onto a couple hundred working from home right now in hopes this gets passed soon. I can't do it before Easter. It is not in me. But if things start to delay next week then I start do layoffs next week. I should not have to take on a 1M temp loan personally and wait wait wait. But we will see.

 

[thewave]

You've already linked me that journal... And you always highlight the point of fatality rate will not be as high as SARS and MERS, which is pretty obviously. This has been known for quite awhile, and isn't the main concern for this virus.

I really don't know why you keep bringing him up considering he goes against everything that you want or think should happen...

You've been running around like a chicken with its head cut off since this all went down. Are you still bringing up the paper that was rejected by its peers and that you still swear by it?

No running around of the sort. He published it and has not changed it officially yet to my knowledge. The numbers keep getting revised lower though and so you can take that up with your own methods of research. Show your work for once, show some evidence and stop grasping at straws.

 

[ULF_55]

With respect, that's not a document. If you do perhaps come across public data that people can sink their fangs into I would love to see it. What you said can be said about anyone anything though, even your PM, Health Minister, Bankers, Economists, Media groups based on who advertises on the platforms etc. It's good that you brought that up so that we can also delve deeper into GOV / Pharma / Bay St. etc though and expand the line of questioning.

Obviously, only things that are public can be shared with the public, private information is protected and cannot be shared.