OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19): Part VII - READ THE OP

Discussion in 'New York Rangers' started by Gardner McKay, Jun 25, 2020.

  1. Gardner McKay Global Moderator

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    I was hoping that we wouldn't have to go to Part VII... but here we are. Moderator tolerance for political discussion is at an all time low. There will be no warnings. There will be no second chances. At this point, crossing that line will come with a forum ban that will remain in place until hockey season starts.

    Don't say we didn't warn you.
     
  2. East Coast Bias Registered User

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    Hospitals make far more money when they’re fully open than they do on Covid mode. Effective surgeries are the cash cow. If you think hospitals are cutting that off to get 8k per Covid dead person as some mass conspiracy I really don’t know what to tell you.

    My wife is having her knee scoped for scar tissue in a couple weeeks. It’s a haul for them. Quick outpatient but they’ll hit insurance for Rhode Island’s GDP for the anesthesiologist.

    Gravely Sick people a net loser for hospitals. ICU is expensive as hell. It’s a just theory that doesn’t remotely hold up.
     
  3. Machinehead Royal Rat Groomer

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    We're not in any state of emergency yet but there was a pronounced uptick in NYS positive rate yesterday.

    Cuomo said that new positives are almost exclusively driven by ages 20-29. That screams "bars."

    Bars just don't seem feasible with this going on. You go there specifically to not social distance. That's the point of them existing.

    I never got bars and wouldn't miss them. "It's loud, dark, cramped, and sticky here -- this is where we should continue the human race." While I'm on it, I also don't get toilet paper. You use water to clean every part of your body except where poop comes out of. What kind of society is this?

    I get that people rely on bars for a living but those people should just be taken care of. Instead we'll force people back to unsafe industries to "fix teh economy" and then when they all get f***in coronavirus, the healthcare costs us three times what paying them to stay home would have. And then when the outbreak is out of hand and we're in a state of complete and total Rona, the businesses fail anyway.

    God bless us, everyone.
     
  4. sbjnyc Registered User

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    Medicare is paying hospitals with covid patients due to the CARES act (I posted about this a while ago). It is because the hospitals are losing money because of a lack of elective services. There may be some incentive for a hospital to make fake covud diagnoses but there's no evidence of this. If anything CDC numbers suggest covid deaths are undercounted.

    Hospital Payments and the COVID-19 Death Count
     
  5. Irishguy42 Mr. Preachy

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    US gov't trying to do a character assassination of Fauci now.

    Coolcoolcoolcoolcoolcoolcoolcool
     
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  6. Fireonk Registered User

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  7. Irishguy42 Mr. Preachy

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  8. NYSPORTS back after this . . . and buy my app!!

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    Who can believe any data coming out of Fla ever? Doubt anybody will cheer about this decision while it’s predictable one side will scream foul while others will recognize the C.D.C. is too slow and imperfect itself. In a Pandemic, the data needs to be provided closer to real time and not lag a week behind IMO. Especially for supply of medicines as they, hopefully, become more prevalent in combating this virus.

    “Today, the C.D.C. still has at least a week lag in reporting hospital data,” Mr. Caputo said. “America requires it in real time. The new, faster and complete data system is what our nation needs to defeat the coronavirus, and the C.D.C., an operating division of H.H.S., will certainly participate in this streamlined all-of-government response. They will simply no longer control it.”

    Officials say the change will streamline data gathering and assist the White House coronavirus task force in allocating scarce supplies like personal protective gear and remdesivir,
     
  9. romba Registered User

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    No, it’s because mentioning the US doing better than anyone else implies positive things and we can’t do that during an election cycle. It would undermine the daily COVID increase world is ending articles. Even though the UK/Sweden bar is low and shouldn’t be a big deal to do better than them, it’s still avoided as a topic so ppl don’t mistakenly think Trump did anything good (hint: he actually didn’t but the media can’t have anyone get the wrong idea)
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
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  10. romba Registered User

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    The data is already shit. States are massaging numbers, the same way (many) scientists have learned to do in their research over the years as well to promote better results and funding. Are hospital admins massaging numbers? I hope not but if there’s financial incentive then you’ll find ppl willing to bend the rules for it. I have no more faith in humanity anymore and have to read multiple angles and viewpoints and then pick the middle as the ‘truth’. So sad
     
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  11. Gardner McKay Global Moderator

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    I get that... but at the same time I don't. You pay them to stay home now and then what? What jobs will they go back to when 75%+ of all bars/restaurants in the US have permanently closed? The number is already above 50%. What about the bar owner who might have to declare a personal bankruptcy? Who is going to protect him/her? What about the building owner who lost a tenant and loses that rental income? How will they be compensated? What if closing bars doesn't fix the problem? What do we close next and what other industry will we begin to strangle? The chain goes on and on.

    As much as I wish it was as simple as you make it seem (and I am not being sarcastic, I really do), it isn't.
     
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  12. Fireonk Registered User

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    While there was potential for gaming the system earlier in the pandemic, I'm not sure that's the case anymore. Before, doctors could have put suspected Covid for anything (not saying they did) because they didn't have enough testing to confirm it. Now, I would think filing Covid positive without having an actual confirmed Covid test wouldn't fly.

    Now of course you will find bad actors everywhere, in every sector. But, I don't think the hospitals really have a way of completely fudging the numbers without being obvious about it at this point in time.
     
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  13. East Coast Bias Registered User

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    How many of these theories are we going to go through with this?

    It was a hoax (it wasn't)
    it was contained over seas and not coming here (it wasn't)
    the media was exaggerating in March (how's that working out?)
    masks don't work (they do)
    the lokcdowns weren't needed cause it was gonna peter away naturally (before the 2nd surge)
    there is no 2nd wave (lol)
    the summer will kill it (it didn't)
    they're juicing the numbers (but the rest of the world isn't),
    Sweden has it right! just power through (it was a disaster)
    the deaths are exaggerated (guess all those excess deaths are coicidence)
    WHEN ARE WE GONNA APOLOGIZE TO GOV DESANTIS! (big LOL)

    Hopefully most of this country is exhausted and ready to move on from "everything you think is false because everyone ie biased and my favorite podcast host/politician/tv host/youtube personality sees through this and can tell you the REAL truth" phase of American life.
     
  14. NYSPORTS back after this . . . and buy my app!!

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    when the media cries wolf every minute of every day, what’s real?

    we’re going on 5/6 years of bias BS reality TV which doesn’t qualify as news. Certainly there is little, if any, responsible journalism going on.

    People actually believe these talking anchors within 5 months were experts and new all the answers in regards to law, foreign trade, health and racism. Yet somehow, these experts in any and all topics only became journalists? More like narcissistic charlatans/frauds who recognized if they can be loud and gather a following the audience may grow b/c people looking for answers can’t think for themselves so need something to believe in. It’s no different than a fraud a thousand years ago who likely stood a rock preaching they knew something based on the shape of clouds. lol

    We have a new virus. It barely effects some and kills others. We open bars and the virus explodes in parts of the country while we ride subways and nothing happens. We’re trying to figure this out the culprit #1 of misinformation and hysteria is the media.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
  15. East Coast Bias Registered User

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    Sorry this is a total cop out. This is a microcosm of modern american thinking.

    There's massive amounts of data and information to find on this stuff. People just want to believe what they want to believe. They hide behind "well the media reported this wrong, that's it for me. can't be bothered with this."
     
  16. NYSPORTS back after this . . . and buy my app!!

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    Believe what you like. A talking head knows about about the law than lawyers, foreign relations than those in command, more about medicine than doctors, more about managing a pandemic despite never having to deal with one and racism which nobody has ever figured out. Put your faith in the talking head and label others as cop-outs for not following like ducks. Really? The microcosm of modern america thinking is allowing talking frauds to dictate how you should think and behave.
     
  17. Leetch3 Registered User

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    i think you are confusing a 'talking head' that just spews their own 'facts' that they made up and someone that reports what is being said by the experts that you claim they aren't smarter than
     
  18. romba Registered User

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    Tremendous lack of education evident in this post. You pulled most of this crap from the echochamber of feel-good-facebook-politics it seems, and your bias is showing. You're grouping my opinions, which you know nothing of, with morons who are conspiracy theories. So many straw man arguments here making your viewpoint seem ironclad which it is not. Read on for explanations, or don't if you prefer.

    It was a hoax (it wasn't) It was never a hoax.

    it was contained over seas and not coming here (it wasn't) It was never contained overseas.

    the media was exaggerating in March (how's that working out?) The media was not exaggerating in March for NYC area. However, maybe other areas that locked down early as a precaution, shouldn't have. Because ppl got burnt out sitting at home with low rates and hospitalizations as these places never had high numbers, so folks in those areas were like wtf are we doing? Now that it's actually hitting these places in earnest no one wants to lock down AGAIN. I know implying the method 'scientists' originally recommended (lock down country) as not perfect is religious blasphemy for the liberal left, but these conversations need to, and should happen. No one is infallible but many treat their 'gods' as such, and the gods can be actual religious gods, religious/political leaders/activists, or scientists.

    Masks don't work (they do). In their haste to minimize fear, political leaders, doctors and scientists said early on they don't work despite little research or evidence to back it up. They said 'it helps prevent you spreading it to others, but doesn't help you from catching it from others, so don't bother. The fact is that any little bit helps, and wearing them for others' sake is the real purpose, as well as for the symbol of it, that we are in this together (which I 100% agree with).

    There is no 2nd wave.
    You clearly do not understand what a 1st or second wave means. We have not cleared the first wave in order to call what we currently have a second wave. The places getting hit hardest (except Cali) didn't get it yet. It's a first wave still. Worry about a '2nd wave hitting' after the first is cleared.

    the summer will kill it I don't where you get your news but the articles I read said it dies quicker out in the sun and heat, and this still holds true. No one said it will go away from the summer. That's dumb and only used to built up your strawman. The truth is, if you're even interested in it, that it lasts on surfaces SIGNIFICANTLY longer in cold and non-humid conditions. However, the majority of spread is through symptomatic individuals, indoors, with extended periods of close contact. Outdoor spread and spread via surfaces is not what is driving the Pandemic. So lasting shorter in the sun is great and all, but unfortunately this will have minimal impact on spreading as it is more direct person-person transfer via air droplets from sneezing/coughing/loud talking etc. which the heat and sun doesn't really impact.

    they're juicing the numbers (but the rest of the world isn't) Right so only the bad guys, conservative leaders, are massaging numbers, your team is ethically and morally superior and would not stoop to such low levels. This might actually and sadly be true, but I'm skeptical of all numbers these days no matter the source. I check their methodology and for reliability (ability for others to replicate numbers as well).

    Sweden has it right! just power through (it was a disaster) Don't dance on their grave yet. US locked down for 3 months and we're STILL heading in the direction of Sweden with tons of new cases. Yes, blame conservatives for being burnt out staying at home unemployed for 3 months for a pandemic in NY and Cali that was nothing in their states. Back to the original point of understanding human nature and maybe States should have waited to lockdown. In a year or two we'll look back at the data with an unbiased and objective eye to see the impact in regards to hospitalizations, deaths, and total damage to the economy and we'll know who did it and managed it better. It's very difficult to pull a winner out now though everyone sure does for both sides (as f***ing usual).

    the deaths are exaggerated (guess all those excess deaths are coicidence)
    WHEN ARE WE GONNA APOLOGIZE TO GOV DESANTIS! (big LOL)
    Like I said, don't group me together with conspiracy theorist morons. I'm skeptical of all numbers and research them heavily, I don't pick a side like you and only believe my team's statements. Keep following your political and scientific gods words while I'll make my own informed decisions after looking at multiple sources.
     
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    good luck sifting through that as the certainty of facts from experts changes often as we discover more and more.

    That MIT paper was swept under the rug and wrote out exactly how this will play out. What else do we need to know? Wave 2 is likely going to be worse. Once we all start developing anti-bodies we decrease the odds of contracting the disease. Until a vaccine or better medications we need to be careful and, yes, the virus could kill us or compromised our quality of life.
     
  20. Oscar Lindberg Registered User

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    I’ll be honest, the biggest thing this whole pandemic has revealed to me is how stupid the average person is

    It’s actually quite astounding
     
  21. Hire Sather He Is Our Star

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    Florida having trouble counting things? That's shocking!
     
  22. East Coast Bias Registered User

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    You can question numbers and be rational about it. It's not crazy to say that when a state gets overwhelmed there will be issues in daily reporting and adjustments that come. That's absolutely fair.

    But your posts aren't that. They're loaded with language and opinions as to doubt all of this. Which is the same purpose all of the talking points I listed served. This might be bullshit? is this all bullshit? I dont know I'm not a doctor I'm just asking questions" kinda thing.

    If you think Florida might have reported higher daily tests last week b/c someone screwed up in data entry say so. Don't say "scientists and doctors are known to massage data" because that is note remotely the same thing.
     
  23. romba Registered User

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    Have some sympathy please, they need to use their toes now too
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
  24. romba Registered User

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    I actually think Florida might have reported LOWER daily test totals because it fits the political narrative down there. Just like some numbers *might* have been over-reported in places where the political/financial narrative fit that. I'm really not picking sides here, you are.

    I have a strong background in clinical research, I'm not talking out of my ass. When I was a bright eyed naive youth I saw many a doctor adjust hypothesis to fit the data, leave out numbers that didn't fit the paper. Big Pharma is the biggest culprit with this as well, it kills me. So I learned not to trust everything I read. It sucks and was a very hard lesson. It's important to understand how to read research to spot the weaknesses, deficiencies, and biases. And EVEN then you can only catch a % of it.

    And yes EVERYTHING MIGHT BE bullshit. The incentives are astounding to show results and numbers fitting a narrative. FOR BOTH SIDES. The difference between me and you is I'm not taking a side here. You feel that I am because I question your gods and faith and that makes you upset with me, but trust me conservatives hate me too because I question their BS and statements based on shit, just as strongly, if not more so.

    I'd go take a look at the southern COVID threads but I'm worried my head would explode from the conservative narrative. I'm in NY so it just happens to be mostly liberal posts I take on and try to 'debunk', but it happens to be there's generally less BS in the liberal narrative than conservative (though both have their fair share).
     
  25. Leetch3 Registered User

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    “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”


    ― George Carlin
     
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  26. Raspewtin solamente soy feliz Sponsor

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    They shouldn't be lol

    Being a landlord is just as much a risky investment as anything in the stock market. Only that you're trading livelihoods and the right to shelter instead of other people's work

    Besides, landlords have gotten WAY more protection through this crisis than working class folks who need to, uh, pay rent to live and got some lousy f***ing crumbs that don't cover a month's rent in most metro areas.
     
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