Corey Pronman Reviews the 2017 Draft

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Then make a list or summary of all the ways that Necas is undeniably ahead of Rasmussen. Because 16 pts doesn't come close to cutting it.

Stickhandling, passing, shooting, skating, offensive creativity. You know, none of the stuff that matters.

 

[vladdy16]

Stickhandling, passing, shooting, skating, offensive creativity. You know, none of the stuff that matters.

So insightful. Thanks.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Thats not being honest with the situation Ras was in last year.

It's being completely honest with the situation. He had a full year to soak up the NHL experience, see how NHLers train, handle their personal lives, etc. And the next year when it was time to show he had taken that stuff and applied it, he didn't and got sent to the AHL.

Seriously, the mental gymnastics people go through to avoid admitting Rasmussen isn't looking good so far. It's to the point where the argument isn't that he's done well, it's that he could do well, and so any such judgment must be postponed until we're sure Rasmussen is out of future moments in which he could become a star.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

So insightful. Thanks.

Do you dispute that?

 

[drw02]

Then it shouldn't be discussed here.

EDIT: or make an exclusive sub forum on the boards exclusive for pay locked content right under By The Numbers
Non-paying members won't even bother to go there. Win/win

So everyone else should suffer because some people can't afford to spare a few bucks a month?

 

[kliq]

It's being completely honest with the situation. He had a full year to soak up the NHL experience, see how NHLers train, handle their personal lives, etc. And the next year when it was time to show he had taken that stuff and applied it, he didn't and got sent to the AHL.

Seriously, the mental gymnastics people go through to avoid admitting Rasmussen isn't looking good so far. It's to the point where the argument isn't that he's done well, it's that he could do well, and so any such judgment must be postponed until we're sure Rasmussen is out of future moments in which he could become a star.

Sorry, but I just don’t buy it. I also don’t see this false narrative you seem to creating.

Ras may in fact never make it, and for a guy picked in the top 10, hes not at a level this stage in his career that i’d like him to be at, and I agree that overall he hasn’t looked great. But using him being in the AHL this year as the determining factor of his “regression” is dishonest.

Ras was not NHL ready last season, but due to circumstance was pretty much forced to play in the NHL, and he did not play well. This year he was playing well in the AHL, but unfortunately got injured.

 

[MBH]

Sorry, but I just don’t buy it. I also don’t see this false narrative you seem to creating.

Ras may in fact never make it, and for a guy picked in the top 10, hes not at a level this stage in his career that i’d like him to be at, and I agree that overall he hasn’t looked great. But using him being in the AHL this year as the determining factor of his “regression” is dishonest.

Ras was not NHL ready last season, but due to circumstance was pretty much forced to play in the NHL, and he did not play well. This year he was playing well in the AHL, but unfortunately got injured.

He wasn''t pretty much forced to play in the NHL. That's a common narrative. But there's no truth to it.

Here are two WHL forwards taken in the top 10 of the 2017 draft.
Cody Glass and Michael Rasmussen.
Glass was taken sixth. Rasmussen was taken 9th.

Here are their D+1 seasons
Glass 64 games 37-65-102.
Ras 47 games 31-28-59

Glass went back to the WHL.
Rasmussen went to the NHL.

Was Glass hurt in anyway by going to the WHL?

So no. The Red Wings were not "pretty much forced" to play Rasmussen over his head. They chose to do it.

Better players than Ras spent their D+2 seasons in the Dub.

 

[kliq]

He wasn''t pretty much forced to play in the NHL. That's a common narrative. But there's no truth to it.

Here are two WHL forwards taken in the top 10 of the 2017 draft.
Cody Glass and Michael Rasmussen.
Glass was taken sixth. Rasmussen was taken 9th.

Here are their D+1 seasons
Glass 64 games 37-65-102.
Ras 47 games 31-28-59

Glass went back to the WHL.
Rasmussen went to the NHL.

Was Glass hurt in anyway by going to the WHL?

So no. The Red Wings were not "pretty much forced" to play Rasmussen over his head. They chose to do it.

Better players than Ras spent their D+2 seasons in the Dub.

For the record, I didn’t literally mean they were forced.

Ras had nothing left to prove in the WHL, it was like a Man playing with teenagers. I never once said he would be hurt playing there, but from a development standpoint, he had more to gain playing in the NHL then the WHL. The AHL would have been perfect, but as we all know, he was not allowed.

 

[ricky0034]

He wasn''t pretty much forced to play in the NHL. That's a common narrative. But there's no truth to it.

Here are two WHL forwards taken in the top 10 of the 2017 draft.
Cody Glass and Michael Rasmussen.
Glass was taken sixth. Rasmussen was taken 9th.

Here are their D+1 seasons
Glass 64 games 37-65-102.
Ras 47 games 31-28-59

Glass went back to the WHL.
Rasmussen went to the NHL.

Was Glass hurt in anyway by going to the WHL?

So no. The Red Wings were not "pretty much forced" to play Rasmussen over his head. They chose to do it.

Better players than Ras spent their D+2 seasons in the Dub.

Cody Glass isn't 6'6"

Rasmussen playing another year against kids would have just lead to a bunch of bad habits

 

[MBH]

Cody Glass isn't 6'6"

Rasmussen playing another year against kids would have just lead to a bunch of bad habits

Cody Glass is 6'2 and skates like the wind. And he dominated the WHL.
I just don't buy the idea that Rasmussen. because he's bigger, couldn't have benefitted by playing 20 minutes a night in the WHL, improving on elementary things that are way below NHL level - like skating with the puck, passing the puck, etc.

It was bizarre that a team that's played the overripe card for years forced this guy to play way over his head all year.

 

[Pavels Dog]

2017 draft looks really weak overall.

It's being completely honest with the situation. He had a full year to soak up the NHL experience, see how NHLers train, handle their personal lives, etc. And the next year when it was time to show he had taken that stuff and applied it, he didn't and got sent to the AHL.

Seriously, the mental gymnastics people go through to avoid admitting Rasmussen isn't looking good so far. It's to the point where the argument isn't that he's done well, it's that he could do well, and so any such judgment must be postponed until we're sure Rasmussen is out of future moments in which he could become a star.

This is complete BS, sorry. Amazed to see someone on this board of all places argue that prospects always play for the Wings if they are good enough, and never spend any time in the minors for any other reason.

Rasmussen was good enough for the NHL last year, performed at a similar level as many other high picks of the 2017 draft. He was good enough in training camp to make the team. And (when healthy) he's been good enough in the AHL to warrant a quick call-up.

He's not in the NHL for a few reasons:

- he doesn't have to be
- in the AHL he can get more time to develop as a center, whereas in the NHL he might need to play winger
- Yzerman has no interest in winning NHL games right now
- He's been injured so we don't know if he would have been called up by now otherwise

Necas was the obvious skill choice but the Wings wanted size and toughness. We'll see. I'm not writing Ras off but it's frustrating knowing Necas and Quinn would be on this roster today helping and instead we have two projects getting more AHL time.

Anytime you pick in the top 10 there is a large probability that someone taken after will end up better. Even if you draft top 3. Would Necas and/or Hughes be in the NHL if we had drafted them, and would they look as good on our current team? I think that's hard to say but likely the answer to one or both questions is a resounding 'no'.
It's way more important that Ras and Zadina become players for us than it is that they become better than everyone taken after. You will always win some, lose some.
You have Mittlestadt, Andersson, Patrick taken ahead of Ras and none of them look great. Tippett is not tearing it up really, and Vilardi while healthy currently is a huge questionmark. I think all things considering, it was a difficult draft and Ras might not end up the best but I doubt he will end up one of the worst top 10 or top 15 picks either.

 

[vladdy16]

Do you dispute that?

It was hardly convincing if that is what you are asking.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

It was hardly convincing if that is what you are asking.

Please, set the record straight.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Please, set the record straight.

Rasmussen has a better shot and is a better skater relative to size.

There. Now if you dispute that, it's up to you to set the record straight.

Rasmussen is also bigger (indisputable), stronger (likewise), better defensively, better on faceoffs, better in board battles, stronger on the puck, better in front of the net, more versatile, has better leadership qualities, brings a more physical edge, and is a more unique package of a player.
You know, none of the stuff that matters.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Rasmussen has a better shot and is a better skater relative to size.

There. Now if you dispute that, it's up to you to set the record straight.

Rasmussen is also bigger (indisputable), stronger (likewise), better defensively, better on faceoffs, better in board battles, stronger on the puck, better in front of the net, more versatile, has better leadership qualities, brings a more physical edge, and is a more unique package of a player.
You know, none of the stuff that matters.

How can you say he has better leadership qualities? And how are you getting to better defensively? The balance I agree with. Not that I disagree with the others, but just don't know how you are getting there.

 

[raymond23]

That 17 draft was so disappointing. Still can’t believe that happened. Hopefully Ras turns into a decent piece but honestly it’s hard for me to see it.

 

[Frk It]

2017 draft looks really weak overall.


This is complete BS, sorry. Amazed to see someone on this board of all places argue that prospects always play for the Wings if they are good enough, and never spend any time in the minors for any other reason.

Rasmussen was good enough for the NHL last year, performed at a similar level as many other high picks of the 2017 draft. He was good enough in training camp to make the team. And (when healthy) he's been good enough in the AHL to warrant a quick call-up.

He's not in the NHL for a few reasons:

- he doesn't have to be
- in the AHL he can get more time to develop as a center, whereas in the NHL he might need to play winger
- Yzerman has no interest in winning NHL games right now
- He's been injured so we don't know if he would have been called up by now otherwise


Anytime you pick in the top 10 there is a large probability that someone taken after will end up better. Even if you draft top 3. Would Necas and/or Hughes be in the NHL if we had drafted them, and would they look as good on our current team? I think that's hard to say but likely the answer to one or both questions is a resounding 'no'.
It's way more important that Ras and Zadina become players for us than it is that they become better than everyone taken after. You will always win some, lose some.
You have Mittlestadt, Andersson, Patrick taken ahead of Ras and none of them look great. Tippett is not tearing it up really, and Vilardi while healthy currently is a huge questionmark. I think all things considering, it was a difficult draft and Ras might not end up the best but I doubt he will end up one of the worst top 10 or top 15 picks either.

Never good when a pick requires this many excuses.

 

[nhlisawesome]

Ugh Ras. Guy can't skate worth a damn and he doesn't have the skill you usually get from a draft pick of his magnitude. Waste of a pick unfortunately.

 

[Frk It]

I remember a lot of posters considered this a weird draft, lots of picks spent on size and only average skill. 2.5 years is probably not enough to judge late round picks but it's fair to say those 10 picks on day-2 didn't give us much return.

Here's our "Who would you have picked" thread:

2017 Draft - Who Would You Have Picked?

At least my picks are looking pretty horrible

I think my best pick was my very last one.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Ugh Ras. Guy can't skate worth a damn and he doesn't have the skill you usually get from a draft pick of his magnitude. Waste of a pick unfortunately.

Always smart to write off a top 10 pick who is only 20 years old.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Never good when a pick requires this many excuses.

There's nothing wrong with the way Rasmussen is developing and no "excuses" needed. I don't know why you choose to call out my comment in such a derogatory way instead of arguing your point, or just not commenting if you don't have time for it. Both the comment I responded to and the one between your two latest posts here are over-the-top critical and lack a clear foundation in facts.
Ras produced pretty well in limited icetime last season, and has been ~PPG in the AHL. He's also had a few training camps in a row where he's one of the most productive players. I really don't understand the hate-boner, but people must have breathed a sigh of relief when he was injured because the more he produces the harder it becomes to argue that he's a bad prospect who can't skate, has no skill and was a waste of a pick.

 

[Frk It]

There's nothing wrong with the way Rasmussen is developing and no "excuses" needed. I don't know why you choose to call out my comment in such a derogatory way instead of arguing your point, or just not commenting if you don't have time for it. Both the comment I responded to and the one between your two latest posts here are over-the-top critical and lack a clear foundation in facts.
Ras produced pretty well in limited icetime last season, and has been ~PPG in the AHL. He's also had a few training camps in a row where he's one of the most productive players. I really don't understand the hate-*****, but people must have breathed a sigh of relief when he was injured because the more he produces the harder it becomes to argue that he's a bad prospect who can't skate, has no skill and was a waste of a pick.

It just read that way to me. I don’t even think you’re wrong necessarily, but just seemed like a lot of posturing/prefacing in that post.

Rasmussen will probably be a fine player. The problem is we need impact players. I agree that the 2017 draft is a weaker draft. My point is we have to set the bar a little higher than just ‘respectable’ as far as what we get from our top picks, or this team will never re-build.

My point was also more of a general one, and not so personal. I’ve defended and excused the Zadina pick a lot. It would be nice if these picks did not require that from us. I’m kind of tired of doing it.

Edit- I do also think this last draft is a good blueprint to follow for future drafts. Mining Sweden and the USHL/USHS is a good plan IMO. Getting more guys like Mastrosimone/Phillips/Berggren into our system can off-set if we have misses with our top picks.

 

[BinCookin]

^^ You guys are looking for sure fire picks.... we better win the lottery to shut you up... and even then.

 

[Frk It]

^^ You guys are looking for sure fire picks.... we better win the lottery to shut you up... and even then.

What do you suggest?

 

[vladdy16]

Please, set the record straight.

A) Players don't stop developing physically until 25-27.

B) In that time, players experience different rates of development at different times. So just because theoretically one is better at 19, but the other is better at 20, it doesn't follow that the gap between them will continue to grow at that point.

C) There is no better evidence than our team these past 2 years, to prove that prospects around the league are going to be on display in drastically different scenarios.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for Necas, and your bold stance on Rasmussens ceiling, but it's hard to have too much faith in an assessment that doesn't seem to take the above factors into account. The lack of detail in your assessment of Necas, further indicates to me that there's a lot left to be seen, as to how these players careers play out.

Beyond that, any given year, there are going to be players who's stock rises higher than their draft position. Again, I appreciate you pointing to Necas as one of those players, but I don't really see how that should affect my perception of Rasmussen. The reason it's fun to look back at drafts and reshuffle rankings, is because picking 17,18,19 yo players across the globe and ranking them is an inexact and difficult science. Same goes for 20 yo's.

Honestly, I love Peterssons game, and he's producing at a ppg clip. He's head and shoulders above these two guys. But if you told me he got a hip injury at age 22, and a knee injury at 23, and he fell back to the pack, that wouldn't be shocking.

It's bad hockey talk to say that Rasmussen will be better than Pettersson when they're 28, or even has a half decent chance of it. It's also bad hockey talk to say that there aren't ways that Rasmussen can catch up, and be a prime player for his age group, and win match ups against premier players, like Necas might be, or Pettersson is.

I don't disagree that Necas looks like a great prospect, and the real deal. I don't agree that fact should make us insecure about Rasmussens development or that we should try and invent a time machine to redo the draft.

My expectation for Rasmussen is to be near a Mats Sundin level by his mid 20's. I realize that this is purely hopeful speculation and forecasting on my part, so I would offer it in a discussion as an anecdotal opinion of mine, not a clear cut fact. Likewise, a good AHL season, and a good start in the NHL is well enough reason to pick out Necas and have an ultimate faith in him. But you also have to admit to the anecdotal properties of that claim, due to the unpredictable nature of developments in people, athletes and sport over the course of the 2 decades that these players careers will be playing out across.