News Article: Contract talks for Senators’ Matt Duchene: update - no numbers [Part 2]

[Ice-Tray]

Encouraging, also seems to stick a fork in the endless speculation about not having the money, cutting costs, etc...

Seems like the plan is to rebuild quickly, and keep our key players, if they’ll stay.

No, HF Sens won’t like this news one bit, not one bit at all...

 

[Ice-Tray]

I can see why this is a tough decision for Duchene. He loves the group he’s playing with, but this is the second year in a row at the bottom.

He’s come up on decision time of whether he commits to this group for the bulk of the rest of his career potentially, or does he hit UFA and try to jump to a team that may be less of a fit for him, but further along towards competing.

Very big life decision, but the fact that he’s struggling, and making a serious effort to go through the team’s future plans tells me that he wants to stay if he can see light at the end of the tunnel.

Like others have said, Stone needs to be staying for Duchene to stay I’d wager, and Boro needs ore ice time...

 

[Korpse]

But to go player by player and prospect by prospect? He could have just asked about the general direction and waited for some kind of canned answer and then said he'd inquired about the future of the organization and didn't feel it was going in the direction he wanted it to.

Why go in to the nuance of every single player and potential player in the organization as a facade? Seems like a gigantic waste of time if he's already made up his mind about leaving.

During their meeting Dorion, Duchene and Brisson developed a plan that wouldn't damage the perception of Duchene's character or the return in a trade. Leaking this information is the 1st step of the plan.

 

[Ice-Tray]

During their meeting Dorion, Duchene and Brisson developed a plan that would allow that wouldn't damage the perception of Duchene's character and the return in a trade. Leaking this information is the 1st step of the plan.

Seems way too convoluted if you’re being serious.

I don’t think people would really hold it against Duchene for not wanting to go through a rebuild given that he has the choice to be a UFA, and PD would be expected to trade him before the deadline if that’s the case.

The real crime would be in wasting valuable trade talk time cooking up a pointless scenario that no one would care about.

 

[Ouroboros]

Now that he's heard how good Andreas Englund is, I imagine it won't be long until Duchene is signed.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Encouraging, also seems to stick a fork in the endless speculation about not having the money, cutting costs, etc...

Seems like the plan is to rebuild quickly, and keep our key players, if they’ll stay.

No, HF Sens won’t like this news one bit, not one bit at all...

No it doesn’t.

Why do you think we’re “rebuilding” and Duchene may not have faith in Dorion/Melnyk’s plan?

 

[Ice-Tray]

No it doesn’t.

Why do you think we’re “rebuilding” and Duchene may not have faith in Dorion/Melnyk’s plan?

If money isn’t the issue in resigning Duchene, it would seem as though we’re willing to spend money rather than sell everything off and cut all costs.

It just adds a bit to a different perspective on things, by no means definitive, but encouraging none the less.

I’m not sure it’s faith, and more timetable. I won’t get into it further as everyone already sees what they want to, but if we can get these guys locked up it will go a long way to dispelling the idea that we can’t or won’t spend money on the team.

I find Duchene’s comments encouraging along those lines. I mean, we all want the team to spend money on our star players, over being ‘right’ while idly speculating on the Internet right?

 

[harrisb]

If money isn’t the issue in resigning Duchene, it would seem as though we’re willing to spend money rather than sell everything off and cut all costs.

It just adds a bit to a different perspective on things, by no means definitive, but encouraging none the less.

I’m not sure it’s faith, and more timetable. I won’t get into it further as everyone already sees what they want to, but if we can get these guys locked up it will go a long way to dispelling the idea that we can’t or won’t spend money on the team.

I find Duchene’s comments encouraging along those lines. I mean, we all want the team to spend money on our star players, over being ‘right’ while idly speculating on the Internet right?

Let us know when Duchene, Stone, Dzingle and Karlsson are all signed OK?

 

[OmniSens]

If Duchene was staying, he would have signed a while ago. Seems to be stalling because he doesn't wanna cause people depression once he leaves, knowing what we gave up to get him.

 

[Sensung]

Encouraging, also seems to stick a fork in the endless speculation about not having the money, cutting costs, etc...

Seems like the plan is to rebuild quickly, and keep our key players, if they’ll stay.

No, HF Sens won’t like this news one bit, not one bit at all...

Well that is quite the leap in logic.

All we have heard is that Duchene doesn't value $ as the primary factor, not that the team is offering market value.

If he looks at our 10-13th ranked prospect pool, believes they can contribute to a quick turnaround and is willing to take a hometown discount, then he'll sign.

Good luck with that...

Just as likely that a player with a damaged reputation via trade demand and Ubergate is looking to repair his image and wants to appear to be a teamfirst guy.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Encouraging, also seems to stick a fork in the endless speculation about not having the money, cutting costs, etc...

Seems like the plan is to rebuild quickly, and keep our key players, if they’ll stay.

No, HF Sens won’t like this news one bit, not one bit at all...

You're insinuating that if it came out that this team was ready to spend money to keep their stars and build around them that a board of Senators fans would be angry....? Am I misreading you? That seems a bit foolish.

Dorion outlining the long term plan with Duchene doesn't constitute proof this team will spend. We had to get the go ahead to add a small amount of cash in the Duchene trade (prorated remainder of 1.5M) despite spending much less than the salary cap in real dollars (not cap) at about 68 million. That was in our glory days before our attendance plummeted.

What logic is there to believe that we'll spend enough to be competitive against a cap that is now at 83 million and three years from now if it continues to rise at a similar pace to as the last few years could be reaching close to 90 million?

If they spend.....great. There's no logical reason to believe it's going to happen just because Dorion had a meeting outlining the direction of the team. We already know that this team is supposedly supposed to be ready to compete 3 years from the start of the rebuild (about 2 years from now). That was what Dorion widely pushed at the start of this rebuild as a timeline, but pushing a timeline is not concrete proof that we're going to spend money when this team has never spent big money on player payroll (relatively to the future cap ceiling) so far since the 2012 lockout.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Encouraging, also seems to stick a fork in the endless speculation about not having the money, cutting costs, etc...

Seems like the plan is to rebuild quickly, and keep our key players, if they’ll stay.

No, HF Sens won’t like this news one bit, not one bit at all...

Didn't he say they hadn't gotten to the money part yet? I don't find this news encouraging personally, sounds like the same things id be saying or be told to say after letting the team know my true feelings behind closed doors that there was zero chance id play under this team and owner going forward.

I guess will see after the trade deadline, which imo should be the final nail in the coffin for those holding out hope that the owner and mgmt. team are acting in good faith.

 

[NorthCoast]

If money isn’t the issue in resigning Duchene, it would seem as though we’re willing to spend money rather than sell everything off and cut all costs.

It just adds a bit to a different perspective on things, by no means definitive, but encouraging none the less.

I’m not sure it’s faith, and more timetable. I won’t get into it further as everyone already sees what they want to, but if we can get these guys locked up it will go a long way to dispelling the idea that we can’t or won’t spend money on the team.

I find Duchene’s comments encouraging along those lines. I mean, we all want the team to spend money on our star players, over being ‘right’ while idly speculating on the Internet right?

I would hold off until we see a deal and see the structure of a deal.

Signing Duchene would be a very positive sign in many respects.

However, if it's say 7-8 AAV without any type of NMC/NTC and no bonus and offset by player cuts elsewhere...then it wouldn't really eliminate the financial concerns, because the team would not be spending more and would not have commited to spending in the future since they could simply move Duchene out in a year.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Let us know when Duchene, Stone, Dzingle and Karlsson are all signed OK?

Uhm, EK is gone dude...

 

[harrisb]

Uhm, EK is gone dude...

Whoosh, that one flew right over....it was in response to your belief that signing one of our top 3 remaining players is spending money. I could have also slyly thrown trading Hoffman in there to make it a solid top 5 players out the door.

With your viewpoint keeping say 2 out of our top 5 players is opening up the purse strings, yikes.

 

[Ice-Tray]

You're insinuating that if it came out that this team was ready to spend money to keep their stars and build around them that a board of Senators fans would be angry....? Am I misreading you? That seems a bit foolish.

Dorion outlining the long term plan with Duchene doesn't constitute proof this team will spend. We had to get the go ahead to add a small amount of cash in the Duchene trade (prorated remainder of 1.5M) despite spending much less than the salary cap in real dollars (not cap) at about 68 million. That was in our glory days before our attendance plummeted.

What logic is there to believe that we'll spend enough to be competitive against a cap that is now at 83 million and three years from now if it continues to rise at a similar pace to as the last few years could be reaching close to 90 million?

If they spend.....great. There's no logical reason to believe it's going to happen just because Dorion had a meeting outlining the direction of the team. We already know that this team is supposedly supposed to be ready to compete 3 years from the start of the rebuild (about 2 years from now). That was what Dorion widely pushed at the start of this rebuild as a timeline, but pushing a timeline is not concrete proof that we're going to spend money when this team has never spent big money on player payroll (relatively to the future cap ceiling) so far since the 2012 lockout.

Yes, you’re misreading it, or I mistyped as it was late.

I think it would go a long way to repairing the relationship between fan and club if they were to sign these guys as PD has repeated said he wants to.

He also said he wanted to sign EK, made a huge offer, and never heard back. So it is more than possible that our stars won’t wabt to sign with Ottawa no matter what the offer is.

I’m not sure where you’re going with the rest of it. We’re not a cap team, and unless we get an owner that is willing to eat large losses every year, we’re not going to be any time soon. The market is not a cap market, I’m not sure why your talking about the cap at all to be honest.

This team can spend money on a roster that fits a budget and we can be competitive, whether that’s now or later, without expecting us to hit or be near the cap. We will likely continue to be near the middle for spending, which is actually quite a lot for one of the smallest markets in the league, with the smallest corporate base in the league.

I hope I answered your question...

 

[HSF]

[MOD qdp]

He does have a slight point though. He decision to stay would have been easier if we signed Karlsson . Then Ottawa can actually say they are trying to build a winner quickly . Right now if you are duchene you can easily point to trading Karlsson as the white elephant in Ottawa's whole plan to. Rebuild quickly .

There is no quick rebuild when you trade one of the best defensemen in our time in his prime .

Duchene and stone have had a long time to sign. If they are still trying to see if Ottawa will rebuild quickly while we sit at the bottom . Well the answer is clear

 

[Ice-Tray]

Didn't he say they hadn't gotten to the money part yet? I don't find this news encouraging personally, sounds like the same things id be saying or be told to say after letting the team know my true feelings behind closed doors that there was zero chance id play under this team and owner going forward.

I guess will see after the trade deadline, which imo should be the final nail in the coffin for those holding out hope that the owner and mgmt. team are acting in good faith.

I’m not surprised, nor do I expect many in here to be encouraged by mere nuance in the slightest, sonits all good.

He seems to make it clear that money is not his concern and is not worried about he money part. To me it seems like if he decides that this is a situation he wants to be in based on our rebuild plan, the money bit won’t be the issue.

I look at that and feel that Brisson and Duchene already know what the team is offering financially, and are not taking issue with it in general.

I’m sharing my perspective on how Duchenes words are encouraging in that he seems torn, isn’t worried about the money working, but wants to take the time to see if this is rebuild will be competitive fast enough for him. I think it’s a fair decision to make.

I don’t expect all posters to share my view, nor am I trying to convince them/you to share my opinion.

I agree that we’ll see what happens soon enough. I wouldn’t at all be surprised if Duchene decides that he’s not interested in the rebuild after all, I mean we just watched EK leave without even countering an 80 million dollar offer, so we know it can happen. The fact that he has admitted to loving the group and really looking at the buts and bolts of the rebuild tells me that he is truly considering staying.

I’ll take that as encouraging news at the very least, though certainly not definitive.

 

[The Lewler]

Yeah it means nothing until they are signed.

No chance you are sticking a fork in any financial debate with that leap of logic.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I would hold off until we see a deal and see the structure of a deal.

Signing Duchene would be a very positive sign in many respects.

However, if it's say 7-8 AAV without any type of NMC/NTC and no bonus and offset by player cuts elsewhere...then it wouldn't really eliminate the financial concerns, because the team would not be spending more and would not have commited to spending in the future since they could simply move Duchene out in a year.

Of course! But we will always be a mid budget team, so I’m ok with having to make the salary structure fit a budget. This is a small market team with a tiny corporate base.

But at the very least trying to sign these guys goes against the popular idea around here that we’re trying to ice a sub cap floor team.

 

[Liver King]

If players dont wanna sign here it's on the organization regardless.

They are cheap as f*** but horrible at spending money as well. They have a pathetic excuse for a GM who has made countless laughable moves. They are the joke of the NHL.

And get it f***ing straight - Dorion decided to trade Karlsson In February - he said it - the offer/wanting him to stay was complete bullshit

 

[stempniaksen]

I’m not sure where you’re going with the rest of it. We’re not a cap team, and unless we get an owner that is willing to eat large losses every year, we’re not going to be any time soon. The market is not a cap market, I’m not sure why your talking about the cap at all to be honest.

This team can spend money on a roster that fits a budget and we can be competitive, whether that’s now or later, without expecting us to hit or be near the cap. We will likely continue to be near the middle for spending, which is actually quite a lot for one of the smallest markets in the league, with the smallest corporate base in the league.

I think you kind of contradict yourself in these two paragraphs. Historically we've been a team that has spent in the middle of the pack, but this season we are bottom-three. If the market is as flawed as you state and the cap continues to rise at the same rate is has been the last few years (and Eugene remains owner) I don't think there's a scenario where this team can/will spend "league average" on salaries.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I’m not surprised, nor do I expect many in here to be encouraged by mere nuance in the slightest, sonits all good.

He seems to make it clear that money is not his concern and is not worried about he money part. To me it seems like if he decides that this is a situation he wants to be in based on our rebuild plan, the money bit won’t be the issue.

I look at that and feel that Brisson and Duchene already know what the team is offering financially, and are not taking issue with it in general.

I’m sharing my perspective on how Duchenes words are encouraging in that he seems torn, isn’t worried about the money working, but wants to take the time to see if this is rebuild will be competitive fast enough for him. I think it’s a fair decision to make.

I don’t expect all posters to share my view, nor am I trying to convince them/you to share my opinion.

I agree that we’ll see what happens soon enough. I wouldn’t at all be surprised if Duchene decides that he’s not interested in the rebuild after all, I mean we just watched EK leave without even countering an 80 million dollar offer, so we know it can happen. The fact that he has admitted to loving the group and really looking at the buts and bolts of the rebuild tells me that he is truly considering staying.

I’ll take that as encouraging news at the very least, though certainly not definitive.

I believe Duchene generally when he says he is concerned with winning over payment, he will get paid substantially regardless wherever he ends up.

I also believe him and Stone similar to EK will see "the plan" is based off the balance sheet knee jerk and emotional reactions and is not concerned with trying to compete and be happy to move on to a competitive situation anywhere else. These actions in my mind as well as many others have been telegraphed for almost 2 years now with all signs pointing to a financially motivated tear down.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Whoosh, that one flew right over....it was in response to your belief that signing one of our top 3 remaining players is spending money. I could have also slyly thrown trading Hoffman in there to make it a solid top 5 players out the door.

With your viewpoint keeping say 2 out of our top 5 players is opening up the purse strings, yikes.

Nope, it was a worthy response to your post. There really wasn’t anything to miss.

Nothing sly about Hoffman, he was traded immediately for scraps so that EK would consider signing with us. You’ll recall that the people’s hero DW flipped him immediately for more scraps to Florida. We needed him gone immediately, which is a shame in terms of value. But he returned scraps to two teams, and it was because of the off ice drama, and the fact that both teams needed him off the roster immediately for different reasons.

EK was offered a massive deal and never responded. For whatever reason, he didn’t have any interest in signing with the team. I know many of you think I that he was so insulted that the 10 million dollar a year offer may not have initially included bonus money and so he took his ball and left, but I think that’s silly, and not have grown men behave. That kind of stuff would have been handled by the professional he hires to do his negotiating. Given what PD has shared, and the fact that EK seemed to corroborate, EK and his agent didn’t negotiate the offer, and didn’t respond to the team contacting him a few times about the offer.

Given the small amount of information we actually have, EK didn’t want to sign with the Ottawa Senators, and it doesn’t look to be about money offered him.

In addition, given what Duchene has said, and what’s been reported, moneybis also not the concern for him either. He wants to know the plan so he can get a sense of how long this rebuild will take, and whether the team is committed to building a contender. All valid points.

Again, the situation seems to be about whether the player wants to be part of the rebuild, not about the individual contract the team is willing or not willing to offer.

Personally I think it will come down to whether Stone and Duchene want to commmit
To spending the bulk of their career with us. It would seem that they love the group of players, which is awesome, but they need to feel like the team is looking to build, not ice a sub-cap floor team year in year out because the owner can’t afford to be competitive. A fear shared by many fans as well.

I think if the plan is actually to be competitive, PD should be able to convince them. As long as they don’t have a personal grudge a la EK rumours, of have significant others who allegedly harass each other. If he can’t convince them, then there is not much reason for fans to be convinced.

They have to show that they are willing to spend, but they also have to get the other party to sign on the line.

 

[Ice-Tray]

He does have a slight point though. He decision to stay would have been easier if we signed Karlsson . Then Ottawa can actually say they are trying to build a winner quickly . Right now if you are duchene you can easily point to trading Karlsson as the white elephant in Ottawa's whole plan to. Rebuild quickly .

There is no quick rebuild when you trade one of the best defensemen in our time in his prime .

Duchene and stone have had a long time to sign. If they are still trying to see if Ottawa will rebuild quickly while we sit at the bottom . Well the answer is clear

Sure he has several points, I’m just not arguing his points, or trying to change his opinion is all. He’s trying to pick a fight and I’m not interested.

As for EK, the evidence I have read points to EK not wanting to sign here, and the fact that he never responded to a few offers of an all edged 80 million dollar offer, it doesn’t look to have been about the money.

I don’t buy that EK was offended, as his agent would have dealt with all of the negotiation stuff. No response means no interest, perhaps even animosity, which we as fans have attributed to the owner.