News Article: Contract talks for Senators’ Matt Duchene: update - no numbers [Part 2]

[Ice-Tray]

I think you kind of contradict yourself in these two paragraphs. Historically we've been a team that has spent in the middle of the pack, but this season we are bottom-three. If the market is as flawed as you state and the cap continues to rise at the same rate is has been the last few years (and Eugene remains owner) I don't think there's a scenario where this team can/will spend "league average" on salaries.

I agree, but there are many teams in the same boat as we are. We are bottom three this year because we are rebuilding and have 4 major players looking for new deals. If we sign Stone and Duchene, and Dzingle too, I wonder if we’ll still be bottom three next year.

if EK has negotiated and signed a deal that paid him 10 million a season last summer, we also wouldn’t be bottom 3 either.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I agree, but there are many teams in the same boat as we are. We are bottom three this year because we are rebuilding and have 4 major players looking for new deals. If we sign Stone and Duchene, and Dzingle too, I wonder if we’ll still be bottom three next year.

if EK has negotiated and signed a deal that paid him 10 million a season last summer, we also wouldn’t be bottom 3 either.

Stone , Duchene and Dzingel are all having excellent years this year, as is Chabot... Where does the improvement come from .. ; We should expect a little from the rookies this year but .. I am not sure how we are going to be significantly better.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I believe Duchene generally when he says he is concerned with winning over payment, he will get paid substantially regardless wherever he ends up.

I also believe him and Stone similar to EK will see "the plan" is based off the balance sheet knee jerk and emotional reactions and is not concerned with trying to compete and be happy to move on to a competitive situation anywhere else. These actions in my mind as well as many others have been telegraphed for almost 2 years now with all signs pointing to a financially motivated tear down.

Sure, that’s a fair perspective.

It’s funny, because while people seem to be upset that I’m encouraged by evidence that spending might not be the main issue here (obviously we have to operate within a budget). It is concerning that players may not want to sign here for ‘plan’ related issues. That is also a serious issue in my opinion, perhaps even worse.

I’m almost thankful that EK not signing may be attributed to a personal issue with the owner, over knowing ‘the plan’ and choosing to not even reply to an offer because of how he felt about it.

Now THAT would sting.... hahaha!

Makes me think of asking a hottie to the prom and her not even acknowledging your offer... hehe

 

[stempniaksen]

I agree, but there are many teams in the same boat as we are. We are bottom three this year because we are rebuilding and have 4 major players looking for new deals. If we sign Stone and Duchene, and Dzingle too, I wonder if we’ll still be bottom three next year.

if EK has negotiated and signed a deal that paid him 10 million a season last summer, we also wouldn’t be bottom 3 either.

Not getting into the EK stuff cause I'm not looking for a fight today

Everything we've heard from the organization/the media has pointed to some players being shipped out at the deadline. I think PD does have every intention of signing Stone and Duchene, but imo, that would come at the expense of Dzingel/Ceci/Anderson. We'd obviously be adding salary next year if we got the big-two under contract, I'm just not convinced it would be enough to get us into the middle of the pack in terms of spending.

We'll obviously have more clarity post deadline, I just don't have the faith that we'll retain all the UFA's and I would assume a last place team would look to shed overpaid vets if possible, which would keep us closer to the floor regardless of extensions.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Stone , Duchene and Dzingel are all having excellent years this year, as is Chabot... Where does the improvement come from .. ; We should expect a little from the rookies this year but .. I am not sure how we are going to be significantly better.

Agreed, but I think if Duchene is being realistic he would be looking for incremental improvements, and maybe it’s coaching as well.

Wasn’t it him that commented that most of the team losses were by one goal, and how three key guys being out contributed to the 8 game drop.

It’s stands to reason that a guy could look at the upcoming kids like Brown and Batherson, and maybe even our goalies and D prospects, and come to the conclusion that ‘all we need’ is to score one more goal, and let in one less goal more consistently and we could be a bubble team.

That’s the kind of thing PD is arguing in my opinion, not that we’re going to compete next year. Duchene already loves the guys, he seems to be trying to evaluate things with his head, as his heart is already in.

We have asked him out, and he is publicly considering it. If he turns us down it will be a major blow in my opinion, especially given that money doesn’t seem to be the issue.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Not getting into the EK stuff cause I'm not looking for a fight today

Everything we've heard from the organization/the media has pointed to some players being shipped out at the deadline. I think PD does have every intention of signing Stone and Duchene, but imo, that would come at the expense of Dzingel/Ceci/Anderson. We'd obviously be adding salary next year if we got the big-two under contract, I'm just not convinced it would be enough to get us into the middle of the pack in terms of spending.

We'll obviously have more clarity post deadline, I just don't have the faith that we'll retain all the UFA's and I would assume a last place team would look to shed overpaid vets if possible, which would keep us closer to the floor regardless of extensions.

Absolutely, and neither am I, but my perspective should make sense when you can see my perspective. I’m also not looking to change yours, merely understand and be understood.

We don’t need consensus opinions in here.

I agree, between the roster and the new arena, this is one of the biggest months for the organization going forward as we have seen.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Sure, that’s a fair perspective.

It’s funny, because while people seem to be upset that I’m encouraged by evidence that spending might not be the main issue here (obviously we have to operate within a budget).

It is concerning that players may not want to sign here for ‘plan’ related issues. That is also a serious issue in my opinion, perhaps even worse.

I’m almost thankful that EK not signing may be attributed to a personal issue with the owner, over knowing ‘the plan’ and choosing to not even reply to an offer because of how he felt about it.

Now THAT would sting.... hahaha!

Makes me think of asking a hottie to the prom and her not even acknowledging your offer... hehe

I too debate what Is worse, not being able to offer competitive contracts or being able to offer them but have the talent all reject the money and opt to go elsewhere for consistent reasons. I suspect it is a combination of both which will be the inevitable reasoning, I do hold the tiniest shred of hope that there will be some light sometime soon as far as ownership.

Personally if I see the remaining talent shipped out with zero hope on the horizon (as all signs are currently pointing too) whilst Eugene doubles down on his plan to never sell the team, I will be done with the team and likely won't be around here any longer.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I too debate what Is worse, not being able to offer competitive contracts or being able to offer them but have the talent all reject the money and opt to go elsewhere for consistent reasons. I suspect it is a combination of both which will be the inevitable reasoning, I do hold the tiniest shred of hope that there will be some light sometime soon as far as ownership.

Personally if I see the remaining talent shipped out with zero hope on the horizon (as all signs are currently pointing too) whilst Eugene doubles down on his plan to never sell the team, I will be done with the team and likely won't be around here any longer.

I liked your post, but not the “won’t be around here any longer” bit, just to be clear.

 

[Deku]

If it’s true that Duchene is more worried about the pipeline than numbers per say, he’s likely curious who his wingers will be

Dorion trying to hype up Batherson to Duchene like:

 

[Upgrayedd]

I liked your post, but not the “won’t be around here any longer” bit, just to be clear.

Lol, it would be solely for a mental health reasoning this I can assure you, I really enjoy my interactions in here and find it is nice distractions from the reality of the current Sens fan, at least for me.

I enjoy the discussions which distract at times from seeing something I care so very very deeply for be, imo, absolutely disrespected and destroyed...it bothers me to my core at times. Im generally a logical person and have been lying to myself at times for the last little bit knowing where this team is headed, at a certain point the seemingly daily torture will have to end.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Agreed, but I think if Duchene is being realistic he would be looking for incremental improvements, and maybe it’s coaching as well.

Wasn’t it him that commented that most of the team losses were by one goal, and how three key guys being out contributed to the 8 game drop.

It’s stands to reason that a guy could look at the upcoming kids like Brown and Batherson, and maybe even our goalies and D prospects, and come to the conclusion that ‘all we need’ is to score one more goal, and let in one less goal more consistently and we could be a bubble team.

That’s the kind of thing PD is arguing in my opinion, not that we’re going to compete next year. Duchene already loves the guys, he seems to be trying to evaluate things with his head, as his heart is already in.

We have asked him out, and he is publicly considering it. If he turns us down it will be a major blow in my opinion, especially given that money doesn’t seem to be the issue.

You definitely seem to have more optimism than I do. I'll leave it at that.

 

[HSF]

Sure he has several points, I’m just not arguing his points, or trying to change his opinion is all. He’s trying to pick a fight and I’m not interested.

As for EK, the evidence I have read points to EK not wanting to sign here, and the fact that he never responded to a few offers of an all edged 80 million dollar offer, it doesn’t look to have been about the money.

I don’t buy that EK was offended, as his agent would have dealt with all of the negotiation stuff. No response means no interest, perhaps even animosity, which we as fans have attributed to the owner.

There are different types of 'evidence' as to why karlsson left. If we go by what you are saying then the question that needs to be asked is why did two franchise players want to leave our organization in such a short time period .

These questions haven't been answered and is probably part of the equation for guys to want to stay . If you are a top star on our team that is very concerning the fact that talent wants to leave our team. I think the answer is obvious over the 'evidence ' over the past decade.

I guess if your point is it's good that Duchene is not just thinking about the money and that it's a positive but at the same time if Karlsson said no without even thinking about the money then it's likely the same happens with Duchene

There is something more wrong with the team that ppl see

 

[Ice-Tray]

There are different types of 'evidence' as to why karlsson left. If we go by what you are saying then the question that needs to be asked is why did two franchise players want to leave our organization in such a short time period .

These questions haven't been answered and is probably part of the equation for guys to want to stay . If you are a top star on our team that is very concerning the fact that talent wants to leave our team. I think the answer is obvious over the 'evidence ' over the past decade.

I guess if your point is it's good that Duchene is not just thinking about the money and that it's a positive but at the same time if Karlsson said no without even thinking about the money then it's likely the same happens with Duchene

Maybe, but if EKs issues was personal with EM, perhaps Duchene doesn’t have such issues.

Either way, I agree with your post in general.

 

[Artanis]

Just trade them both, let's start the rebuild.

 

[Icelevel]

Just trade them both, let's start the rebuild.

Or sign them both and compete next year

Could go either way.

 

[Artanis]

Or sign them both and compete next year

Could go either way.

We aint competing next year, unless some major offseason additions (which won't happen).
This roster has major holes.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Or sign them both and compete next year

Could go either way.

Yea I don't see this team competing for anything other than outside of a bottom 5 finish next year even with all the UFA's retained.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

A rebuild ... Most important part to the word is "Build" .. We have been trading stars (1st liners) for one or more mediocre players .. No 1st liners coming back. Dorion is trying to convince Duchene to sign with the concept of being able to compete sooner than later. He gave up too much to get him and did not get enough back on Hoffman or Karlsson. Stone remaining is a question mark.. Not having good top 6 players to help develop, what you want your future top 6 to be is not a rebuild recipe.. You need to keep talent ... When these guys are traded we will likely get players back, like Boedker level players, and we will be told how great they are and how they fit , blah blah.. but you cannot develop top line or top 6 players with only Boedker types as linemates. I like some of our prospects but we can't compete in the NHL with a lineup of rookies, 2nd year players and a bunch of mediocre at best NHLers. We need NHL talent .. We need at least what we have now plus a top 2 D and a top 4 D and probably a better goal tender.. Then you fill in around them and develop and rebuild .. this is just some asshole that was given the reigns to an NHL franchise and has made mistake after mistake and put us in a huge hole.

 

[GrantLemons]

Just trade them both, let's start the rebuild.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Yea I don't see this team competing for anything other than outside of a bottom 5 finish next year even with all the UFA's retained.

Not holding my breath, but maybe they'll actually make attempts to improve the team this summer.

 

[Sensung]

A rebuild ... Most important part to the word is "Build" .. We have been trading stars (1st liners) for one or more mediocre players .. No 1st liners coming back. Dorion is trying to convince Duchene to sign with the concept of being able to compete sooner than later. He gave up too much to get him and did not get enough back on Hoffman or Karlsson. Stone remaining is a question mark.. Not having good top 6 players to help develop, what you want your future top 6 to be is not a rebuild recipe.. You need to keep talent ... When these guys are traded we will likely get players back, like Boedker level players, and we will be told how great they are and how they fit , blah blah.. but you cannot develop top line or top 6 players with only Boedker types as linemates. I like some of our prospects but we can't compete in the NHL with a lineup of rookies, 2nd year players and a bunch of mediocre at best NHLers. We need NHL talent .. We need at least what we have now plus a top 2 D and a top 4 D and probably a better goal tender.. Then you fill in around them and develop and rebuild .. this is just some ******* that was given the reigns to an NHL franchise and has made mistake after mistake and put us in a huge hole.

There is a clear consensus on the board that this is not a rebuild, but in fact a financially motivated firesale.
Speculation: - Rebuild or Financially Motivated Firesale?

When the verdict is this clear, perhaps we should all adopt the term FMF instead of the innacurate "rebuild" label to reflect the clear opinion of the knowledgeable fans on this board.

 

[Sensung]

We aint competing next year, unless some major offseason additions (which won't happen).
This roster has major holes.

Just look at the AHL quality Dcorps.

 

[Ice-Tray]

There is a clear consensus on the board that this is not a rebuild, but in fact a financially motivated firesale.
Speculation: - Rebuild or Financially Motivated Firesale?

When the verdict is this clear, perhaps we should all adopt the term FMF instead of the innacurate "rebuild" label to reflect the clear opinion of the knowledgeable fans on this board.

I would personally be cautious about putting much stock in the results of this internet poll. I mean a bunch of nerdy and angry hockey fans (us) overwhelmingly choose angry poll option, to the surprise of no one. It can be fun to do, but let’s try and remember that opinions based on pure speculation don’t become facts just because you want them to. These polls should come with the label: for entertainment purposes only...

I’d suggest not doing any gloating or high fiving at all until after the trade deadline.

If the team is able to sign our guys it will look more like 69 of us were just angry and wrong.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Or sign them both and compete next year

Could go either way.

We'd need Batherson to break out and white/tkachuk to have great 2nd seasons.

All that could be feasible but the defense is the major catastrophe here, alongside question marks on defense. If we retain both, we're looking at maybe competing for playoffs in 2 years to give a shot for Lafrerniere to get here and pray Docker makes impact in his rookie year + Brown/Batherson/Chlapik graduation.