Connor Hellebuyck

[Romang67]

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-1290/hnidy-hellebuyck-continuing-to-develop-1.286563

Hnidy clearly believes that Hellebuyck will be back in the AHL next season, continuing to work on his game.

 

[buggs]

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-1290/hnidy-hellebuyck-continuing-to-develop-1.286563

Hnidy clearly believes that Hellebuyck will be back in the AHL next season, continuing to work on his game.

That's what Ken Wiebe of the Sun indicated in today's paper as well, citing the Schneider model of slower development being beneficial. While I can understand that from the goalie development perspective, I'm curious how that plays into the success of the team, with our top line guys getting older while we have mediocre goaltending.

No need to rush Helle along - Winnipeg Sun article

 

[Romang67]

Honestly, the Canucks didn't let Schneider stew in the AHL for that long. I think the reason why he didn't play in the NHL earlier is because he didn't perform that well in his first stint when he was 22(!). If Hellebuyck performs better, I don't see any reason for him not pushing for more playing time in the NHL, especially since the competition for the starting spot was a bit tougher in Vancouver.

 

[buggs]

Honestly, the Canucks didn't let Schneider stew in the AHL for that long. I think the reason why he didn't play in the NHL earlier is because he didn't perform that well in his first stint when he was 22(!). If Hellebuyck performs better, I don't see any reason for him not pushing for more playing time in the NHL, especially since the competition for the starting spot was a bit tougher in Vancouver.

Agree 100%. Luongo >>>>>Pavelec.

 

[Romang67]

Do you ever get the feeling that these writers just look at the recent hot topics on HFJets, then write articles about it?

I think Hellebuyck will play most of the year in the AHL next season, work on some of his weaker areas, and get some playing time in the NHL. I'm not sure it's the right thing to do, but that's what I think will happen.

 

[Romang67]

Agree 100%. Luongo >>>>>Pavelec.

Yeah, the part about how Schneider didn't get a starting role until his 6th year in pro hockey seemed a bit off. If we had Lundqvist, I'm sure it would take a while for Hellebuyck to get a chance to grab the reins as well.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

That's what Ken Wiebe of the Sun indicated in today's paper as well, citing the Schneider model of slower development being beneficial. While I can understand that from the goalie development perspective, I'm curious how that plays into the success of the team, with our top line guys getting older while we have mediocre goaltending.

No need to rush Helle along - Winnipeg Sun article

Well let's look at a sampling of the best NHL starters from last year then shall we?

Player|NHL Start Age|NHL Primarily Start Age|Minor League Seasons
Carey Price|20|20|0
Devan Dubnyk|23|24|4
Steve Mason|20|20|0
Corey Schneider|22|23|3
Corey Crawford|20|25|5
Pekka Rinne|22|25|3
Braden Holtby|21|23|3
Tukka Rask|20|22|2
Henrik Lundqvist|23|23|0
Roberto Luongo|20|21|1
Semyon Varlamov|20|21|1
Eddie Lack|25|25|3
Marc-Andre Fleury|18|21|1
Ondrej Pavelec|20|22|2
Jon Quick|21|22|1
Sergei Bobrovsky|22|22|0
Jonas Hiller|25|25|0
Ben Bishop|22|26|4
Jaroslav Halak|21|23|3
Frederik Andersen|23|23|1

That's not even including the impact young goalies like Petr Mrazek (hey another 5th round pick just one year older than Hellebuyck already making a huge impact, playoff starter!), Andrei Vasilevsky, or John Gibson who are future stars at 22 or under already strutting their stuff. Or counting guys who made an impact young who fell just outside this range this year for a variety of reasons despite great talent like Jonathan Bernier, Calvin Pickard, Phillip Grubauer, Joni Ortio, Martin Jones, Darcy Kuemper, Kari Lehtonen, James Reimer, Robin Lehner.

I hardly think I am out of line to think 22 is not at ALL too young for a goaltender to make an impact. They certainly can. I know I would be MUCH more comfortable with a Hutchinson/Hellebuyck tandem than an Pavelec/GOD tandem. And yes Wiebe there is a VERY immediate need to get Hellebuyck to the NHL. The need's name is Ondrej Pavelec.

 

[EpicGingy]

While there's nothing to complain about if Hellebuyck isn't quite ready for the NHL and both he and the Jets are better served with him playing the AHL, I always get the feeling that people say players in general, not just him, should play in the AHL for arguments that almost boil down to a "just because" mentality and that other teams do that.

Schneider took so long to get a starting job in the NHL because the Canucks were a harder team to break into and he just plain wasn't ready. I would say Hellebuyck has outperformed Schneider at the same stage of their careers and I believe that he's earned the right to be given the same shot that Hutch and Pavelec will be given.

 

[buggs]

That's not even including the impact young goalies like Petr Mrazek (hey another 5th round pick just one year older than Hellebuyck already making a huge impact, playoff starter!), Andrei Vasilevsky, or John Gibson who are future stars at 22 or under already strutting their stuff. Or counting guys who made an impact young who fell just outside this range this year for a variety of reasons despite great talent like Jonathan Bernier, Calvin Pickard, Phillip Grubauer, Joni Ortio, Martin Jones, Darcy Kuemper, Kari Lehtonen, James Reimer, Robin Lehner.

I hardly think I am out of line to think 22 is not at ALL too young for a goaltender to make an impact. They certainly can. I know I would be MUCH more comfortable with a Hutchinson/Hellebuyck tandem than an Pavelec/GOD tandem. And yes Wiebe there is a VERY immediate need to get Hellebuyck to the NHL. The need's name is Ondrej Pavelec.

Thank you for doing up that table. I knew there were valid arguments against the AHL long term route (hello, Carey Price called) but that sums them up very nicely.

 

[ps241]

Yea good table Holden.

 

[Jets4Life]

Do you ever get the feeling that these writers just look at the recent hot topics on HFJets, then write articles about it?.

It's no joke.

The local media gets most of the staff to go through Jets forums, to see what the fan base is thinking, and what the hot topics are. I recall back in march, there were threads on a couple of hockey related forums, about possibly calling up Hellebuyck, when Hutch was cold, and Pavelec let in the infamous goal in St.Louis. Two days later, the WFP ran a story about it.

I can actually think of several examples of this happening. The truth is, newspapers are dying, staff is being let go, and salaries are being cut. Do you actually think writers like Lawless know what is going on behind the scenes? Of course not.

Notice that employees like John White, and other young WFP tech-savvy writers were laid off, due to lack of seniority. And now the WFP website is impossible to navigate, and subscribers universally hate it. Coincidence? I think not.

I am willing to bet that there are people on this forum that are more in touch with the organization, than some of the local newspaper beat writers. And that is precisely why they check these types of forums. Local sports writers could potentially come up with witty and informative stories about the Jets, but that takes effort and dedication. The easy way, is to copy what a respected forum member, who seems to have inside information, and pass it as your own. It takes far less time, and can't really be proven.

 

[Board Bard]

While there's nothing to complain about if Hellebuyck isn't quite ready for the NHL and both he and the Jets are better served with him playing the AHL, I always get the feeling that people say players in general, not just him, should play in the AHL for arguments that almost boil down to a "just because" mentality and that other teams do that.

Very, very this /\/\.

 

[Jetabre]

We're in need of a true #1 goalie, and 22 is not too young to be given a shot, he comes with a mighty fine resume too. With that being said considering contract situations with the other two, I don't think he gets more than a few games in the NHL next season unless both Hutch and Pav start sucking at the same time and Helle comes in lights out and never looks back.

 

[Jets4Life]

Well let's look at a sampling of the best NHL starters from last year then shall we?

Player|NHL Start Age|NHL Primarily Start Age|Minor League Seasons
Carey Price|20|20|0
Devan Dubnyk|23|24|4
Steve Mason|20|20|0
Corey Schneider|22|23|3
Corey Crawford|20|25|5
Pekka Rinne|22|25|3
Braden Holtby|21|23|3
Tukka Rask|20|22|2
Henrik Lundqvist|23|23|0
Roberto Luongo|20|21|1
Semyon Varlamov|20|21|1
Eddie Lack|25|25|3
Marc-Andre Fleury|18|21|1
Ondrej Pavelec|20|22|2
Jon Quick|21|22|1
Sergei Bobrovsky|22|22|0
Jonas Hiller|25|25|0
Ben Bishop|22|26|4
Jaroslav Halak|21|23|3
Frederik Andersen|23|23|1

That's not even including the impact young goalies like Petr Mrazek (hey another 5th round pick just one year older than Hellebuyck already making a huge impact, playoff starter!), Andrei Vasilevsky, or John Gibson who are future stars at 22 or under already strutting their stuff. Or counting guys who made an impact young who fell just outside this range this year for a variety of reasons despite great talent like Jonathan Bernier, Calvin Pickard, Phillip Grubauer, Joni Ortio, Martin Jones, Darcy Kuemper, Kari Lehtonen, James Reimer, Robin Lehner.

I hardly think I am out of line to think 22 is not at ALL too young for a goaltender to make an impact. They certainly can. I know I would be MUCH more comfortable with a Hutchinson/Hellebuyck tandem than an Pavelec/GOD tandem. And yes Wiebe there is a VERY immediate need to get Hellebuyck to the NHL. The need's name is Ondrej Pavelec.

You're right about 22 being not young for an NHL goalie to make his debut. In fact, Hutch is one of the older rookie goalies, at age 24. Thanks for providing that chart very interesting.

 

[Jets4Life]

Much better.

as you can clearly see, 22 is not too young.

 

[Vagrant]

Not a Jets fan, but this kid looks every bit ready for NHL time next season. And I think he'll get it. But they obviously don't want to come out saying that right now. He'll still have to earn it in training camp. The unfortunate thing about NCAA goaltenders is that they have relatively little "net time" compared to their Junior contemporaries who can snag 55-60 starts in a season. The only real point that I can see people making about Hellebuyck is that he's not as net polished as your average CHL goaltender would be at 22 after likely 2-3 AHL seasons. The table above is a little deceptive because it doesn't house too many NCAA guys. To only play 53 games combined in your 19-20 year old seasons is a bit of a detriment to progress. Compared to Eric Comrie, who has played 117 games in his 18-19 year old seasons, it's a sizable gap. There are things that only game experience can teach. But I do maintain that he's the rare exception that is already prepared. However, the fact that he has less than 150 games above high school hockey does have to weigh into your decision somewhere.

 

[Jets4Life]

Not a Jets fan, but this kid looks every bit ready for NHL time next season. And I think he'll get it. But they obviously don't want to come out saying that right now. He'll still have to earn it in training camp. The unfortunate thing about NCAA goaltenders is that they have relatively little "net time" compared to their Junior contemporaries who can snag 55-60 starts in a season. The only real point that I can see people making about Hellebuyck is that he's not as net polished as your average CHL goaltender would be at 22 after likely 2-3 AHL seasons. The table above is a little deceptive because it doesn't house too many NCAA guys. To only play 53 games combined in your 19-20 year old seasons is a bit of a detriment to progress. Compared to Eric Comrie, who has played 117 games in his 18-19 year old seasons, it's a sizable gap. There are things that only game experience can teach. But I do maintain that he's the rare exception that is already prepared. However, the fact that he has less than 150 games above high school hockey does have to weigh into your decision somewhere.

I respectfully disagree.

Hellebuyck has shown at every conceivable level, except for the NHL, that he is an elite goalkeeper:

His resume:

-2012 (NAHL): Top Goaltender
-2013 (NCAA): Hockey East All-Tournament Team
-2014 (NCAA): Hockey East All-Touneament Team & All-American
-2015 (AHL): Nominated for AHL Most Valuable Player, Rookie of the Year, and Goalie of the Year
-2015 (IIHF Worlds): Best Goalkeeper (selected by the Media)

In 2015-16, Hellebuyck, if given the chance, will continue on his road to excellence in the NHL

 

[rehf]

How is it rushing him by giving him a few games then if he doesn't look ready we just send him back down...

God I hate the media... I bet they just love Harrison and think Enstrom is too small and must be traded!

 

[Romang67]

How is it rushing him by giving him a few games then if he doesn't look ready we just send him back down...

God I hate the media... I bet they just love Harrison and think Enstrom is too small and must be traded!

That doesn't annoy me half as much as the idea that him struggling in the NHL his first time up there will ruin him. Therefore, we need to wait until we know he's 100% ready for the NHL before he gets a chance to show his worth, and that will only happen after several seasons in the AHL.

 

[rehf]

That doesn't annoy me half as much as the idea that him struggling in the NHL his first time up there will ruin him. Therefore, we need to wait until we know he's 100% ready for the NHL before he gets a chance to show his worth, and that will only happen after several seasons in the AHL.

That too. Even if he struggled for a few games I'd still give him a real chance.

 

[Jets4Life]

That doesn't annoy me half as much as the idea that him struggling in the NHL his first time up there will ruin him. Therefore, we need to wait until we know he's 100% ready for the NHL before he gets a chance to show his worth, and that will only happen after several seasons in the AHL.

I've never understood the "If we play him next year in the NHL, it might ruin him" mentality. Hellebuyck just single-handedly lead Team USA to a bronze Medal. He was more valuable to the Americans than even Eichel. He stood on his head, for a mediocre Ice Caps team, and lead Lowell Mass to the NCAA Frozen Four.

it is almost like people want Helly to walk on water, to prove he can compete in the NHL.

 

[Gm0ney]

I've never understood the "If we play him next year in the NHL, it might ruin him" mentality. Hellebuyck just single-handedly lead Team USA to a bronze Medal. He was more valuable to the Americans than even Eichel. He stood on his head, for a mediocre Ice Caps team, and lead Lowell Mass to the NCAA Frozen Four.

it is almost like people want Helly to walk on water, to prove he can compete in the NHL.

To be fair, Jesus didn't walk on water until he was 25.

Although technically, ice is a form of water, so...

 

[RustyCat]

It really depends on Hellebuyck's development arc and if the right situation avails itself. This time last year Chariot wasn't exactly on the radar to be projected to stay in the NHL club's line up but he was at the right point of development and the right situation came up.

Everything indicates, for now, Hellebuyck will start in the AHL because the only reasons he will be in a Jets uniform at any point next year is because one of (or both) Hutch and Pav will either be gone, injured, or playing awful (pressbox).

As far as either player being gone I think the fact that the Jets made the playoffs is a big factor. Had the Jets not made the playoffs it would be easier to justify trading, waiving, or buying out Pavelec. Hutch is a product of the system and did well I can not see Chevy shipping him off; it would be counterintuitive to the culture the Jets are promoting within the org and would send perhaps the wrong message. It is a business though but I personally can't see that route being taken. As far as benching/pressboxing either I can't see that happening as it hasn't been a go to method (especially for goaltenders) for Maurice. Not saying it isn't possible, but just very unlikely.

So it looks like they would bank on injury as the opportunity for Hellebuyck to showcase his skills in the NHL. The bottom line is that the Jets need Pavelec - if they are not going to go out and get a bonafide starter (which won't happen as it will complicate the situation even more) then you need a goaltender with some experience because a tandem of Hutch/Helle has all the makings of setting these guys up for failure.

So for those reasons, Hellebuyck stays put in the AHL.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

It really depends on Hellebuyck's development arc and if the right situation avails itself. This time last year Chariot wasn't exactly on the radar to be projected to stay in the NHL club's line up but he was at the right point of development and the right situation came up.

Everything indicates, for now, Hellebuyck will start in the AHL because the only reasons he will be in a Jets uniform at any point next year is because one of (or both) Hutch and Pav will either be gone, injured, or playing awful (pressbox).

As far as either player being gone I think the fact that the Jets made the playoffs is a big factor. Had the Jets not made the playoffs it would be easier to justify trading, waiving, or buying out Pavelec. Hutch is a product of the system and did well I can not see Chevy shipping him off; it would be counterintuitive to the culture the Jets are promoting within the org and would send perhaps the wrong message. It is a business though but I personally can't see that route being taken. As far as benching/pressboxing either I can't see that happening as it hasn't been a go to method (especially for goaltenders) for Maurice. Not saying it isn't possible, but just very unlikely.

So it looks like they would bank on injury as the opportunity for Hellebuyck to showcase his skills in the NHL. The bottom line is that the Jets need Pavelec - if they are not going to go out and get a bonafide starter (which won't happen as it will complicate the situation even more) then you need a goaltender with some experience because a tandem of Hutch/Helle has all the makings of setting these guys up for failure.

So for those reasons, Hellebuyck stays put in the AHL.

Letting the best players play hockey = setting them up for failure. Who knew!

 

[Huffer]

The Sun article seems like such a lazy narrative.

Young goalies = AHL
Incumbent = NHL
Find instance of goalie developing in the AHL and turning out good to try to prove point = Schneider

Really just seems to miss the key details in both our current situation, and the Vancouver situation he tries to use as a comparison.

For our current situation, the incumbent that the writer (and Chevy, although I give Chevy leeway due to the "don't throw your player under the Bus publicly" rule) want to anoint as the starter is a career .908. I think the analysis indicates that Pavs is more likely to be closer to .908 than the .920 he put up last year. Unless the team has reasons (fitness, technique change, etc), that indicate a greater likelihood of a year closer to the .920, we're not looking at even NHL starting quality goal-tending from our "vet". Are they worried that Hellebuck could be worse than .908?

As for Schneider, isn't his past situation the exact opposite of our current one? In that he actually had an elite NHL goalie in his way, which meant there was no real reason for the Canucks to bring him in any earlier than they had to.

Even with that said, I can still see the team going with Pavs/Hutch on the Jets and Hellebucyk on the Moose at the beginning of the season. And I don't see too much of an issue with it. Where I think the issue lies is at say the quarter mark, or before Christmas, depending on how the goalies are playing. If everyone is playing well, great! Hellebucyk gets more starts in the AHL and we're likely not losing out as Pavs is playing well. If Pavs is playing well, Hutch isn't, but Hellebuck is, then the Jets can try to swap the backups. The big test will be if Pavs isn't playing well, and both Hutch and Hellebucyk are. Does the team continue with the narrative that Hellebucyk needs "time" in the AHL and not even give him a chance? Do they even try to move Pavs at that point or do they ride out another season with a below average starter?