Confirmed with Link: Connor Hellebuyck nominated for Vezina Trophy - Winner!

[White Out 902]

To state that you won't admit you were wrong because you don't actually care about Hellebuyck's performance. I guess that's one way of admitting you're one of the nameless people.

I do care about his performance. Especially in the playoffs. Which has been garbage last 2 playoff stretches, 3 if you count the play-in.

 

[Duke749]

Still in shock...

 

[Romang67]

I do care about his performance. Especially in the playoffs. Which has been garbage last 2 playoff stretches, 3 if you count the play-in.

Yes, I noticed your narrative has shifted from "Hellebuyck isn't an above average starter" to "Hellebuyck can't get it done in the playoffs" after he won the Vezina, was named to the all-star team, and was an analytics darling for the entire season.

 

[AWSAA]

Still in shock...

How much would you be willing to pay him on the next contract if he has no real playoff success to show for it? It wasn't Helle who took us to the conference finals in 2018. We beat a lesser, injury depleted Wild team and then Rinne choked and shat the bed.

 

[Duke749]

The obsession with trying to downplay a Vezina winning season is astounding and quite ignorant. We weren’t doing shit this playoffs anyways. With what line up. Helly would have had to put up historic numbers. Get your heads out of the sand and appreciate it what we have instead of bitching about what we don’t.

 

[White Out 902]

Yes, I noticed your narrative has shifted from "Hellebuyck isn't an above average starter" to "Hellebuyck can't get it done in the playoffs" after he won the Vezina, was named to the all-star team, and was an analytics darling for the entire season.

My narrative, or, opinion as normal people would say, has been the same since the Vegas series. I welcome you to demonstrate otherwise.

 

[NorCalhockey]

I am very familiar with the format and our unfortunate loss to Calgary. The wordings and classifications are certainly ambiguous for this unusual season. I was just pointing out that we did indeed technically make the "postseason" (sometimes the branding breaks it down into "Qualifiers" and "Playoffs" so I'll say "postseason").

Here's a quote from the original press release:
"For statistical purposes only, all games from the 2020 Stanley Cup Qualifiers (round robin and qualifying rounds) are considered part of the 2020 postseason. Accordingly, all skater/goalie/team statistics accumulated in these games will be included in the 2020 player and team postseason stats. Achievements from these games and series will be included on Records.NHL.com.
Teams participating in a best-of-five series during the Stanley Cup Qualifiers are considered to have made the postseason and participated in a postseason series." (NHL, NHLPA ratify four-year CBA extension, Return to Play Plan)
So basically Winnipeg officially made the postseason, lost a best-of-5 series, and players picked up some playoff stats. I suppose this year the word "Playoffs" was reserved for the final 4 rounds of the postseason so it's a bit strange.

Regarding the other point, we were also in a playoff spot when the season was suspended. It doesn't matter that the season hadn't ended because that's the whole point of saying "X Team is in a playoff spot", say in February. While Nashville or Calgary may have won their games in hand and passed us, at the time of suspension, they hadn't and thus by the rules in place in October 2019, Winnipeg was ahead. Again, this is just semantics and doesn't matter.

For me personally, I do count the play-in round as "the playoffs". This is how I look at it:

Play-in Round: Lose this round and a team has zero chance of winning the Cup (sounds like a "playoff" round)

Round Robin: Lose every single game but still have a chance to win the Cup (doesn't sound like a "playoff" round)

 

[Romang67]

My narrative, or, opinion as normal people would say, has been the same since the Vegas series. I welcome you to demonstrate otherwise.

Your narrative has shifted like a cloak in a gale, between Hellebuyck not being a reliable starter, to not being an above average starter, to not being able to get it done in the playoffs (this usually shows up when he shows how laughably wrong you are about his not being a proper starter).

I mean, this isn't exactly news. Every now and then you shoot yourself in the foot with statements like "I take save% over large data samples as the final say on a goaltender."

Sometimes it's definite statements, laughably incorrect and easily disproven, like "My opinion is he's a below middle of the pack, not terrible goaltender, who gets on streaks occasionally. We can agree to disagree."

It's just weird how you just wanted to make the playoffs earlier this season, and when Hellebuyck dragged a bad team to a playoff position by the time the season ended, that no longer mattered. It mattered that he wasn't a reliable starter, until that argument faltered too. Now it's that he can't get it done in the playoffs, and I'm sure that if we're ever in a position where we lose in the playoffs despite Hellebuyck playing lights out, what actually matter will be good ol' Pavelecian timely saves.

I'm sure your opinion that Hellebuyck is a bad goaltender hasn't changed. But the narrative must change, because he keeps doing what you claim he isn't capable of.

But all of this is really irrelevant. I'm not going to change your opinion. I have faith in Hellebuyck's ability to be a good starter. You'll complain about him. And round and round we go.

 

[White Out 902]

Your narrative has shifted like a cloak in a gale, between Hellebuyck not being a reliable starter, to not being an above average starter, to not being able to get it done in the playoffs (this usually shows up when he shows how laughably wrong you are about his not being a proper starter).

I mean, this isn't exactly news. Every now and then you shoot yourself in the foot with statements like "I take save% over large data samples as the final say on a goaltender."

Sometimes it's definite statements, laughably incorrect and easily disproven, like "My opinion is he's a below middle of the pack, not terrible goaltender, who gets on streaks occasionally. We can agree to disagree."

It's just weird how you just wanted to make the playoffs earlier this season, and when Hellebuyck dragged a bad team to a playoff position by the time the season ended, that no longer mattered. It mattered that he wasn't a reliable starter, until that argument faltered too. Now it's that he can't get it done in the playoffs, and I'm sure that if we're ever in a position where we lose in the playoffs despite Hellebuyck playing lights out, what actually matter will be good ol' Pavelecian timely saves.

I'm sure your opinion that Hellebuyck is a bad goaltender hasn't changed. But the narrative must change, because he keeps doing what you claim he isn't capable of.

But all of this is really irrelevant. I'm not going to change your opinion. I have faith in Hellebuyck's ability to be a good starter. You'll complain about him. And round and round we go.

This is a lot of effort and an absurd level of self aggrandizing- "mission accomplished" style celebration for yet another shitty year of hockey. I won't derail the thread any further; a fellow poster invited people of my thought process to eat crow, and I declined. Another posted wrote it best; let the dude put together 2 good years in a row (which he has yet to do) and we can start talking about him turning a corner.

In the meanwhile, he's been a miserable failure 3 post seasons in a row, and won GM Vote for best goaltender in an abbreviated season where the wheels were clearly falling off. Had the season carried on I have no doubt his save % would continue to plummet, as it was before COVID.

Enjoy

 

[tbcwpg]

The place to discuss whether Hellebuyck is a good goalie or not (he is a good goalie) should be the Hellebuyck thread, not a thread celebrating winning best goalie in the league.

 

[Daximus]

This is a lot of effort and an absurd level of self aggrandizing- "mission accomplished" style celebration for yet another shitty year of hockey. I won't derail the thread any further; a fellow poster invited people of my thought process to eat crow, and I declined. Another posted wrote it best; let the dude put together 2 good years in a row (which he has yet to do) and we can start talking about him turning a corner.

In the meanwhile, he's been a miserable failure 3 post seasons in a row, and won GM Vote for best goaltender in an abbreviated season where the wheels were clearly falling off. Had the season carried on I have no doubt his save % would continue to plummet, as it was before COVID.

Enjoy

Name 3 consistently better goalies who aren't a product of a superior team.

 

[Romang67]

This is a lot of effort and an absurd level of self aggrandizing- "mission accomplished" style celebration for yet another shitty year of hockey. I won't derail the thread any further; a fellow poster invited people of my thought process to eat crow, and I declined. Another posted wrote it best; let the dude put together 2 good years in a row (which he has yet to do) and we can start talking about him turning a corner.

In the meanwhile, he's been a miserable failure 3 post seasons in a row, and won GM Vote for best goaltender in an abbreviated season where the wheels were clearly falling off. Had the season carried on I have no doubt his save % would continue to plummet, as it was before COVID.

Enjoy

Trust me when I say that proving you wrong doesn't take any effort.

For example, here is Hellebuyck's numbers in February and March, when you claim that his numbers were plummeting:

16 starts, 12 wins, 25 points, and a combine save percentage of 0.934 to drag us into a wildcard spot before the season got cut short. Wheels clearly falling off indeed. Save % plummeting indeed. I would call your claim laughable, but at a certain point it just flips to tiresome and sad.

He won the Vezina, was named to the first all-star team, was 6th in Hart voting, and was an analytics darling all season. Pretty damn impressive.

 

[Afterburner]

Atta boy Helle, well freaking deserved!

 

[KingBogo]

This is a lot of effort and an absurd level of self aggrandizing- "mission accomplished" style celebration for yet another shitty year of hockey. I won't derail the thread any further; a fellow poster invited people of my thought process to eat crow, and I declined. Another posted wrote it best; let the dude put together 2 good years in a row (which he has yet to do) and we can start talking about him turning a corner.

In the meanwhile, he's been a miserable failure 3 post seasons in a row, and won GM Vote for best goaltender in an abbreviated season where the wheels were clearly falling off. Had the season carried on I have no doubt his save % would continue to plummet, as it was before COVID.

Enjoy

Helly is a top 5 goalie in the league and we are very lucky to have him. Any continued ragging on him is a personal dislike which is fair just like your opinion of him is meaningless to the rest of us.

 

[ps241]

Helly is a top 5 goalie in the league and we are very lucky to have him. Any continued ragging on him is a personal dislike which is fair just like your opinion of him is meaningless to the rest of us.

I agree with your post. Once Connor won the award for the best goalie in the NHL it was a bat signal warning for his terminal detractors that it’s a good time to lie low for a while to let things blow over.

There is a time and a place for every debate and lord knows every goaltender on the planet goes through highs and lows. This is a the wrong time and the wrong thread to win the Helly sucks debate.

However, it’s the perfect time and place to out yourself as a poster to be ignored on the topic of goaltending evaluation credibility.

 

[kanadalainen]

I'm happy for Helle, he's been great (and sometimes bordering on great) these past three years. Winning the Vezina is never going to be easy. The guy is a legit goalie, very consistent, he's locked in for years to come, developed within *our* system - and with the announcement, I thought to myself, when was the last time we have had a Vezina winning goalie in Winnipeg?

Theme: What's not to like?

 

[rubikscube]

Name 3 consistently better goalies who aren't a product of a superior team.

*crickets*

 

[Jets4Life]

This is a lot of effort and an absurd level of self aggrandizing- "mission accomplished" style celebration for yet another shitty year of hockey. I won't derail the thread any further; a fellow poster invited people of my thought process to eat crow, and I declined. Another posted wrote it best; let the dude put together 2 good years in a row (which he has yet to do) and we can start talking about him turning a corner.

In the 5 seasons Hellebuyck has been in the NHL, he was had one mediocre season. IN spite of what you claim, Hellebuyck finished with above average stats in 2018-19. His saving percentage was 0.913, which was better than the league average (0.909). It should be noted that his stats were actually better than Binnington's in the first round.

In the meanwhile, he's been a miserable failure 3 post seasons in a row, and won GM Vote for best goaltender in an abbreviated season where the wheels were clearly falling off. Had the season carried on I have no doubt his save % would continue to plummet, as it was before COVID.

First off, against my better judgement, I will address the absurd claim that Helle has been a miserable failure for the past 3 seasons. You are wrong, and probably the only person I ahve ever met online who thinks this way.

Finally, Helle was on fire for his final 10 games, going 7-3-0, with a 0.938%, which included winning his last 4 starts. Where do you come up with this baloney?

 

[Jets4Life]

How much would you be willing to pay him on the next contract if he has no real playoff success to show for it? It wasn't Helle who took us to the conference finals in 2018. We beat a lesser, injury depleted Wild team and then Rinne choked and shat the bed.

These types of posts just go to prove my theory, that no matter how good/bad a player one does not care for does, they will find any excuse in the book to bash them. If Hellebuyck led us to a Stanley Cup, by helping the Jets go 16-2, with a 0.935 save percentage, there will always be someone on the forum that will complain that Hellebuyck did not win all 16 games, and should have posted a 0.970%

Why can't people just be glad that we had the best NHL goalie of 2019-20, that single handedly lead us to a winning season, when the Jets had no business doing so, considering what shape our defense was in?

 

[AWSAA]

These types of posts just go to prove my theory, that no matter how good/bad a player one does not care for does, they will find any excuse in the book to bash them. If Hellebuyck led us to a Stanley Cup, by helping the Jets go 16-2, with a 0.935 save percentage, there will always be someone on the forum that will complain that Hellebuyck did not win all 16 games, and should have posted a 0.970%

Why can't people just be glad that we had the best NHL goalie of 2019-20, that single handedly lead us to a winning season, when the Jets had no business doing so, considering what shape our defense was in?

That's a cute hypothetical situation. Too bad it never happened.

I notice you didn't answer my question. Would you give Hellebuyck a Carey Price like contract? I don't see how we could ever hope to contend with him & Mark making 20+ mill through their thirties-retirement.

 

[Jets4Life]

That's a cute hypothetical situation. Too bad it never happened.

I notice you didn't answer my question. Would you give Hellebuyck a Carey Price like contract? I don't see how we could ever hope to contend with him & Mark making 20+ mill through their thirties-retirement.

First off, Helle played very well in the 2018 playoffs. Last time I checked, having a 0.922% was considered great. And just for comparison sakes, Binnington led the Blues to the Stanley Cup with a 0.914% You are creating a false narrative by stating that the Jets beat the Wild and Preds, since their goalies were sub-par/injured/etc, and not because Helle played lights out in the first two rounds. Could he have been better against Vegas? Sure. However, that is not why the Jets lost. Vegas beat us with better fore-checking, and Fleury just happened to be unstoppable.

I'm not even going to dignify the contract question with an answer, other than I am very satisfied that we have Helle locked up for several years. Enjoy him while he is here, considering he is the best goalie the franchise has ever had by a considerable margin.

 

[Guardian17]

Win the Vezina, no walking to the practice rink!

 

[Gm0ney]

Win the Vezina, no walking to the practice rink!

This is how Helly should hit the ice at the start of every game...