Columbus will "Not be the same team" in 2016/2017

[major major]

I never want to hear about stats, especially if it's advanced stats. As I said I don't buy it. Perception is reality. Your valuation of players is off.

If you wish. But just to be clear, I'm talking about basic stats here. Goals, assists, points, and divide by ice time if you feel like it. Either way he's in the top 10 in production, which is noteworthy in itself regardless of whether you like him as a top 10 player overall.

 

[major major]

And powerplay would be the first two lines with Puljujarvi getting rotated in and the D would be something like Jones-Werenski/Savard-Murray/Johnson

Our best PP options last year were actually Foligno, Wennberg, and Jenner. Hartnell was 4th last year. And Dubi, Atkinson, and Saad with less than impressive production on the PP.

Or toggle over to the 2 yr numbers. Dubinsky was better in 14-15, but Atkinson and Saad were not good. Again, Jenner and Foligno were great on the PP.

So of the 6 PP forwards, Jenner, Foligno, Hartnell and Wennberg are locks. Bjorkstrand has better PP skills than the rest, so he's there, and then take your pick of Dubinsky, Atkinson, Saad, and Puljujarvi. Of that group Dubinsky has had the better numbers two years running.

 

[blahblah]

If you wish. But just to be clear, I'm talking about basic stats here. Goals, assists, points, and divide by ice time if you feel like it. Either way he's in the top 10 in production, which is noteworthy in itself regardless of whether you like him as a top 10 player overall.

Not sure I care where he ranks, but I will tell you a couple of things that stand out.

He reached the 30 goal mark by increasing his shot% by 5% over the previous two seasons. Based on SoG he's more of a 22-25 goal scorer. His PP production is meh and it fluctuates. His overall assist totals are nothing to get excited about with his ice time.

What I'm seeing here is a good player, what I'm not seeing is anything resembling an elite player. The FO would consider that when considering moving a pick that could net you an elite players.

Now, I do love that he can win a faceoff and I would like to have him. However, I don't think either FO would consider it as it was listed and I have absolutely no idea why we're even bothering to have the discussion. Would the CBJ be interested in him? Maybe if they can make the dollars work - but not for the #3 pick.

 

[Crede777]

Yeah our FO would never be crazy enough to give up a ton to a player who reached the 30 goal mark by drastically increasing his shooting %...

 

[major major]

I'm not even arguing in favor of a specific trade. I just think it's foolish to write Duchene off. The guy would be a very big upgrade. I've shot down plenty of trade offers for guys who are not definite upgrades (think RNH). This is not like that at all. He is not much on the PP, but other than that, his production is great across the board, and for several years running.

Not sure I care where he ranks, but I will tell you a couple of things that stand out.

He reached the 30 goal mark by increasing his shot% by 5% over the previous two seasons. Based on SoG he's more of a 22-25 goal scorer. His PP production is meh and it fluctuates. His overall assist totals are nothing to get excited about with his ice time.

We have a stat that can help you with that! It's called A/60, I'm sure you'll love it. And sure enough, Duchene is 11th leaguewide in both assists per ice time and primary assists per ice time (both over the same 4 year period). Maybe you need to be top 5 in assists per ice time to get blahblah excited? Or maybe there isn't a way at all?

 

[blahblah]

We have a stat that can help you with that! It's called A/60, I'm sure you'll love it. And sure enough, Duchene is 11th leaguewide in both assists per ice time and primary assists per ice time (both over the same 4 year period). Maybe you need to be top 5 in assists per ice time to get blahblah excited? Or maybe there isn't a way at all?

Yipee

 

[Johnny Jacket]

Saad-Wennberg-Bjorkstrand

Where's the beef? I think this line would be easily physically dominated by 3rd and 4th lines across the league. (Unless they just ran from them.)

 

[Crede777]

Where's the beef? I think this line would be easily physically dominated by 3rd and 4th lines across the league. (Unless they just ran from them.)

2006 just called. It wants its coaching philosophy back.

 

[major major]

2006 just called. It wants its coaching philosophy back.

Touche.

What do you expect from a poster named "Proutfan"? Prout, of course, is an athlete who would have actually been pretty good in the Derian Hatcher era, but is almost entirely out of place now.

 

[niflheim]

Not same, not same team, but same familiar faces

The reason our team finished in 26th were awful goaltending ( means #72) and skyhigh PIM with mediocre penalty killing. Our greatest concerns heading into the new season are not even scoring, but (first of all) are reducing goals-against and discipline. I hope our management is taking active steps toward correcting that issue. And as first step we hired new PK coach ( psych compatibility is another question), he is proven specialist.

PS I can't discuss physical conditions, but I hope it will be corrected

 

[stevo61]

Not same, not same team, but same familiar faces

The reason our team finished in 26th were awful goaltending ( means #72) and skyhigh PIM with mediocre penalty killing. Our greatest concerns heading into the new season are not even scoring, but (first of all) are reducing goals-against and discipline. I hope our management is taking active steps toward correcting that issue. And as first step we hired new PK coach ( psych compatibility is another question), he is proven specialist.

PS I can't discuss physical conditions, but I hope it will be corrected

Well the reason most teams go by building from the net out is because everything starts with the D. If you have a skilled group who can shut players down and transition the puck it changes everything. When you see guys like Prout fail on clearing attempts and that puts pressure on everyone leading to breakdowns that cause penalties or goals.

Murray-Jones
Johnson-Savard
Werenski/Prout/Kukan/Tyutin

vs

Johnson-Savard
Murray-Goloubef
Tyutin-Prout

Ofcourse there will be mistakes as there always is with young guys but that lineup includes more skill and more speed which makes everyones job easier

 

[major major]

Not same, not same team, but same familiar faces

The reason our team finished in 26th were awful goaltending ( means #72) and skyhigh PIM with mediocre penalty killing.

I don't disagree that those things must be improved, but Bob does an insane amount of heavy lifting for this hockey club and it's not fair to blame it all on him. The Blue Jackets actually had the most defensive zone faceoffs in the entire league (implying waayyy too much time in our own end). That has to be fixed first and foremost.

 

[The Old Master]

Not same, not same team, but same familiar faces

The reason our team finished in 26th were awful goaltending ( means #72) and skyhigh PIM with mediocre penalty killing. Our greatest concerns heading into the new season are not even scoring, but (first of all) are reducing goals-against and discipline.

maf could be had.......just say'en

 

[CBJx614]

I don't disagree that those things must be improved, but Bob does an insane amount of heavy lifting for this hockey club and it's not fair to blame it all on him. The Blue Jackets actually had the most defensive zone faceoffs in the entire league (implying waayyy too much time in our own end). That has to be fixed first and foremost.

I expect training camp to be full of a lot of skating, a lot of breakouts and a lot of D-zone focus.









But mostly skating.

 

[Crede777]

I don't disagree that those things must be improved, but Bob does an insane amount of heavy lifting for this hockey club and it's not fair to blame it all on him. The Blue Jackets actually had the most defensive zone faceoffs in the entire league (implying waayyy too much time in our own end). That has to be fixed first and foremost.

There were two plans coming into this season.

Our plan on defense was Bobrovsky

Our plan on offense was Johansen.

Both guys fell through. Hence the finish. Coming out now, our plan has to be that our entire defense and offense corps. will carry us. No passengers. Everyone needs to step up to the roles they were assigned and paychecks they collect.

 

[major major]

There were two plans coming into this season.

Our plan on defense was Bobrovsky

Our plan on offense was Johansen.

Both guys fell through. Hence the finish. Coming out now, our plan has to be that our entire defense and offense corps. will carry us. No passengers. Everyone needs to step up to the roles they were assigned and paychecks they collect.

The offense ended up being fine despite both Johansen and Foligno falling through. That really was planned as a deep offense and depth (the 2nd and 3rd line, not the 4th) was indeed very good.

Who knows what the plan was on D. The official line was "Murray is the best free agent acquisition on D in the league". That turned out to be terribly premature and embarrassing as the D was awful, beyond Bob's issues. But I don't think that was the actual plan. I think it was "let's get a top D we really need one, oh wait these prices are awful, let's just tell the fans that Murray is the guy, oh wait the D is even worse than we expected and Murray is clearly not ready to be #1, okay let's trade for Jones because we have to move Johansen anyways, hey this D is going to be really great in a couple years, youth movement!" In other words, the FO knew it was going to be the weak point, but they must have been caught off guard by just how weak it was - there's no excuse for 0-8.

 

[Dr. Fire]

maf could be had.......just say'en

No thanks.

As to this constant refrain of "well, our young D men are going to make mistakes so......." GOOD GOD!!! Look at the mistakes some of our fricking veteran D men make!

Yea they will have some growing pains, but damn, every one of our D men makes mistakes.

Hell, Shea Webber looked like Prout on steroids in that game 7 with San Jose.

 

[Inquiring Minds]

Who knows what the plan was on D.

I believe the answer was something very close to this:

"I feel comfortable going into the season with the group that we have now."​

I tend to be very supportive of the GM, no matter who is filling the spot at the moment. People who fill one of the 30 most elite positions in pro-sports have more knowledge, judgement & intuition than I do on any aspect of the game.
Yet, I still have difficulty understanding how GMJK could have truly been comfortable with that group, unless he was expecting the results that he got.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

Even a child knows it was Todd Richards' playbook which faltered to a seven ou start. Material is irrelevant if seek out reasons why something occurred instead of what happened. Tortorella's revolution could happen in any of the 31 NHL teams. Pittsburgh is good indicator of the importance of playbook.

 

[CBJx614]

I believe the answer was something very close to this:

"I feel comfortable going into the season with the group that we have now."​

I tend to be very supportive of the GM, no matter who is filling the spot at the moment. People who fill one of the 30 most elite positions in pro-sports have more knowledge, judgement & intuition than I do on any aspect of the game.
Yet, I still have difficulty understanding how GMJK could have truly been comfortable with that group, unless he was expecting the results that he got.

I feel like he knew he wanted to add a top pairing D man, I think he was just waiting to be patient to get exactly what he wanted. I dont think that he thought it would take that long.

Last season sucked, but if the team is better for it from here on out it will have been worth it. But if were not a perennial playoff team in the next 2-4 seasons than theres no way Jarmo or JD have jobs.


Also we may be looking at "this wont be the same team" the right way. What I mean by that is the team itself wont look much different besides the youth movement forcing its way in, but the on-ice result will be a different team. It seems the focus is D first. If we can turn this D into a scary, speedy, point producing machine next season you better believe this team is gonna look different. Jones, Murray, Werenski, Johnson and Kukak(if he makes it) are all excellent or above average skaters who can effectively break the puck out with either their feet or a really good pass(specifically Murray and Jones). I really think this D has the potential to be something truly special in the next 2-3 seasons.

The potential is definitely there, lets see if they can live up to it.

 

[major major]

I believe the answer was something very close to this:

"I feel comfortable going into the season with the group that we have now."​

I tend to be very supportive of the GM, no matter who is filling the spot at the moment. People who fill one of the 30 most elite positions in pro-sports have more knowledge, judgement & intuition than I do on any aspect of the game.
Yet, I still have difficulty understanding how GMJK could have truly been comfortable with that group, unless he was expecting the results that he got.

I don't take that kind of late summer statement too seriously. It might have been what he really thought, it might not have been. He obviously wasn't going to say "This D is a liability. We tried to improve it but haven't found the right deals."

 

[Johnny Jacket]

Touche.

What do you expect from a poster named "Proutfan"? Prout, of course, is an athlete who would have actually been pretty good in the Derian Hatcher era, but is almost entirely out of place now.

"What do you expect from a poster named "Proutfan"? "

Do you have a major major problem with my member name?

"but is almost entirely out of place now."

Well then I guess the "almost" means he's still has at least two more years before he's out of place! JK and JD gave him a major major pat on the back with the 2 year extension and the big raise. I'll take their evaluation of Prout over your mediocre one every time.

I didn't know what major major meant so I googled it. It's clear now.

“Major Major had been born too late and too mediocre. Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three. Even among men lacking all distinction he inevitably stood out as a man lacking more distinction than all the rest, and people who met him were always impressed by how unimpressive he was.â€
― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/major-major

 

[major major]

I didn't know what major major meant so I googled it. It's clear now.

“Major Major had been born too late and too mediocre. Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three. Even among men lacking all distinction he inevitably stood out as a man lacking more distinction than all the rest, and people who met him were always impressed by how unimpressive he was.â€
― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/major-major

Yes, so it appears both of us have jokes for user names. But mine is intentional.

 

[Ducks Nation*]

What would you ask for Karlsson back from Ana?

 

[Jaxs]

This Q and A between Portzline and Torts gives me some encouragement about training camp. Notice given, again.

http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com...-coaches-john-tortorella-and-brad-shaw.htmlQ: And if the veterans are looking over their shoulders, that’s OK, too, right?
A: Hey, I’m not trying to threaten the veterans or anything. I’m just seeing it as it is. I believe this is a young man’s game. I don’t think we have a real old team anyway … we have a couple of older veterans. But I’m not … I’ll tell you right now, I think it’s one of our weaknesses. There are people here who are comfortable, as far as how it’s gone, the lineup and being with the team. It’s very healthy in our situation to be uncomfortable right now. Yeah, guys should feel a little bit of push in all positions. All positions! To me, Portzy, that’s healthy. That’s healthy for an organization. You don’t just have the same guys back every year. Quite honestly, I think it’s stale. We need some juice.
Q: When you finish 27th in the lea …
A: If we’re going to be comfortable, we have major problems. I think guys do feel comfortable here, quite honestly. I do. I’m not trying to threaten them or anything, but if you’re comfortable right now, we’ve got problems. There needs to be a push. There needs to be an edge. The way I saw these guys play in Cleveland, they were outstanding. And I think the coaches did an outstanding job