GDT: Columbus Blue Jackets vs. Detroit Red Wings | 10/4/2018 7:30PM ET| FSD MOD NOTE POST #750

[Invictus12]

I feel like people vastly overstate the impact of losing Datsyuk,the guy put up 49 points(in 66 games) he wasn't exactly Gretzky out there

then they replace him and an incredibly washed up Brad Richards with 48 games of Vanek as well as Frans Nielsen

I think the bigger impact is that Blashill just hadn't had as much time on the job yet,the more he "coaches" these guys the worse they get and I don't think that's a coincidence

The amount of points scored isn't the only thing that will dictate a win or a loss. Pavel would often control the entire ice when he was on. In doing so, your opponents weren't getting chances at scoring. Simplistic math like that doesn't work. Its a game of many nuances.

 

[Obe2kenobe]

AA has had effort issues his entire career, whether Blashill was on his bench or not and I am talking clear back to junior.

People can argue about whether Blashill is a good coach, fine. But, Blashill has nothing to do with the way AA checks out in games and doesn't make simple hockey reads. Sorry but that is on AA and I am a little tired of the narrative that we should just gift and try to accommodate one guy that isn't putting in the appropriate amount of effort. Hopefully Vanek can pump up AA's trade value and we can ship AA at the deadline so we are done discussing him around here is how I feel about him at this point.

Signs weren't encouraging on the first night. I have a few buddies that scout in the league and multiple pro scouts have AA on their do not advise list with their teams currently. One of them flat out calls AA a coach killer. So that is the other unfortunate thing for all his potential it seems the rest of the league might have gathered in on the same problems in terms of him being very unlikely to reach said potential because of his hockey IQ and engagement. He needs to change that narrative, not Blashill. If he is doing this in hopes of getting a new coach well look down at Bylsma because at this point AA is tanking his reputation so he should probably get his *** in gear and we know who his next likely coach is. Keep in mind NHL people love the Hunter brothers so who he decide to feud with in junior as a kid has carried with him to NHL circles. I don't think that is fair, but then again sometimes when I watch him play with the Wings aside from the weight he has put on he looks exactly like the solo desperado player he was with the Knights without a whole lot new to his game...

I'm not saying get rid of Blashill he can't motivate AA.
I'm not a big fan of Dale Hunter. I know he had problems with Ovechkin. Not sure personally if I would take his take in AA too seriously. He might just have a axe to grind.

 

[Invictus12]

I'm not saying get rid of Blashill he can't motivate AA.
I'm not a big fan of Dale Hunter. I know he had problems with Ovechkin. Not sure personally if I would take his take in AA too seriously. He might just have a axe to grind.

Use your own eyes and watch AA closely and dispassionatly. He only puts effort infront of an easy path. As a result, he makes it more difficult on the other guys who are on the ice.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Use your own eyes and watch AA closely and dispassionatly. He only puts effort infront of an easy path. As a result, he makes it more difficult on the other guys who are on the ice.

It is worth noting he had a strong pre-season. Hopefully he can rebound in Cali. But since one of his problems has been consistency it was certainly tough to watch his opening night. Seriously there are few players in the league that had a worse first game than AA. He needs to own that, what becomes of his career is really in his hands, but if he doesn't kick it in gear even with all of his gifts he is going to be in Europe in three or four years if he doesn't make some changes.

 

[Invictus12]

It is worth noting he had a strong pre-season. Hopefully he can rebound in Cali. But since one of his problems has been consistency it was certainly tough to watch his opening night. Seriously there are few players in the league that had a worse first game than AA. He needs to own that, what becomes of his career is really in his hands, but if he doesn't kick it in gear even with all of his gifts he is going to be in Europe in three or four years if he doesn't make some changes.

Thats the thing. Its not that he's incapabe, it's that he won't engage. Its
only one game but with him, it is an alarm because he made it that way in the past.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

The level of freakout we've reached is astounding considering it's one game in a season we were expected to suck in.

 

[SCD]

It is going to be bad all year. Most of us are looking for positives that suggest the future will be better. Cholowski is an example.

AA had a very good pre-season, unfortunately had a lousy first game. Falling back to old habits is never encouraging.

 

[Dotter]

The level of freakout we've reached is astounding considering it's one game in a season we were expected to suck in.

That's my stance. If Wings grunt out wins, people will still be unhappy because they don't want that 14th pick, they want that top #3 pick.

That said, this team is full of youth and haven't even begun to gel yet. It's going to be a rough season and a very good 19' draft.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yes it is ridiculous how easily he is blamed when the whole team gives poor efforts sometimes


He is 23 and still growing as a player.


I don't get it. He is arguably our most dynamic offensive player a part of our young core growing as a player. Maybe he is one dimensional right now but he will get better defensively as he matures. Yzerman was criticized by Bowman about his lack of defense and look how good he got in his own end later in his career....

Is he though? Is he better now at things than he was as a rookie? What, specifically, is he better at? His stickhandling has always been good, but is he making better decisions with it? Not that I see. He's always been one of the fastest on the team. Why then do the Wings surrender so many high danger chances with him on the ice? He was at C two nights ago, how were his faceoffs? Deplorable, right?

And people rag on AA because the difference between him giving effort and not giving effort is so glaring. When he tries, he's among the top 3 best players on the ice in ANY game he plays. When he isn't, he's invisible. It has nothing to do with other players. The argument shouldn't be "oh, all these other guys suck and whatever too". It should be why this guy who should be one of our most dynamic players is so ****ing static in the majority of his games. Justin Abdelkader's lack of production has nothing to do with Andreas Athanasiou not giving an honest effort. Riley Sheahan when he was here not scoring a goal for 80 games doesn't make it okay for AA to slack off.

And please do not try to compare AA to Yzerman as a player or suggest that because Yzerman could do something that AA can or is likely to. That's embarrassing for you. Steve Yzerman is probably the 2nd best player to ever laced them up for the Wings and definitely is top 50 all time in the NHL. Just don't go there.

Andreas Athanasiou is an enigma. I wish there was some way to drop Danny Cleary's or Kris Draper's drive into him. That would be an outstanding player.

It is worth noting he had a strong pre-season. Hopefully he can rebound in Cali. But since one of his problems has been consistency it was certainly tough to watch his opening night. Seriously there are few players in the league that had a worse first game than AA. He needs to own that, what becomes of his career is really in his hands, but if he doesn't kick it in gear even with all of his gifts he is going to be in Europe in three or four years if he doesn't make some changes.

I mean, to be fair, the preseason doesn't mean a whole lot. Teams employ guys who will never see the ice when games mean anything (Jake Chelios, Jussi Jokinen, whoever the **** Hamilton was) Hell, in the preseason in 2006... the Red Wings had a guy on their roster named Robin Big Snake. Also, big name guys tend to be trying to either conserve energy or avoid injury.

AA could score 50 goals in a preseason "season" and it wouldn't matter to me if he didn't follow it up by actually trying when everyone else is trying.

 

[newfy]

No one knows if a problem lies with Blash or AA regarding his motivation. But a good coach knows each player is motivated differently. Some players respond to a kick in the ***. Some need a pat on the back. Is Blashill a good coach that knows how to motivate different players. Who knows?

AA has had effort issues his entire career, whether Blashill was on his bench or not and I am talking clear back to junior.

What TZE said is the answer. There is abslutely an issue with AAs motivation/attitude/whatever you want to call it. Blashill might not be the best coach at getting the best out of AA. But he hasnt had a single coach since junior thats actually been good at it. Is Blashill great? No, but I've talked about AAs attitude issues since the day he was drafted.

As for the Blashill debate, I dont think hes an amazing coach but you also cant judge a guy who took over what he took over. Babcock is considered great and could do nothing with the wings roster, except when Babcock had it he had a year younger Dats and Z plus Kronwall was still playing like a number 1 dman.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

What TZE said is the answer. There is ab****ely an issue with AAs motivation/attitude/whatever you want to call it. Blashill might not be the best coach at getting the best out of AA. But he hasnt had a single coach since junior thats actually been good at it. Is Blashill great? No, but I've talked about AAs attitude issues since the day he was drafted.

As for the Blashill debate, I dont think hes an amazing coach but you also cant judge a guy who took over what he took over. Babcock is considered great and could do nothing with the wings roster, except when Babcock had it he had a year younger Dats and Z plus Kronwall was still playing like a number 1 dman.

Blashill isn't a fantastic coach, but he's not bad.

Any time he's had good talent, he's had good results. When he's had bad talent, he's had bad results.

Basically, AA isn't good enough that you chuck out a coach to placate him and Blashill isn't good enough that you toss away a player with AA's talent because he "can't motivate him".

 

[newfy]

Blashill isn't a fantastic coach, but he's not bad.

Any time he's had good talent, he's had good results. When he's had bad talent, he's had bad results.

Basically, AA isn't good enough that you chuck out a coach to placate him and Blashill isn't good enough that you toss away a player with AA's talent because he "can't motivate him".

Completely agree. This isnt like Dale Hunter trying to get every European moved out of Washington and hating Ovechkin. This is a third/maybe 2nd line player who hasnt done enough to prove his attitude issues are worth what he does on the ice, and what I consider a middle of the pack coach. Blashill gets repsect from people in the league so he must be doing something right, people probably realize how little talent he has on his roster

 

[obey86]

kinda pissed I won't be able to see either of the next two red wing games. 10:30pm on sunday and monday night? Yeah, I have to work the next day, i'm up at like 5:30am-6am.

 

[Konnan511]

Did people actually expect us to win this game starting six rookies? I liked the game Cholo had and Ras was instrumental in our second goal being a nuisance in front of the net.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Did people actually expect us to win this game starting six rookies? I liked the game Cholo had and Ras was instrumental in our second goal being a nuisance in front of the net.

They’re ostensibly NHL players. I expect the Wings to play hard and have a chance in every game. I expect them to do all they can to get the W.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

They’re ostensibly NHL players. I expect the Wings to play hard and have a chance in every game. I expect them to do all they can to get the W.

Yeah I expect effort. But realistically I don't expect them to win a lot this year. If the other team doesn't show up with good effort they should win, they are NHL players. But if a Tampa brings their best well we aren't going to be in that game.

 

[kliq]

They’re ostensibly NHL players. I expect the Wings to play hard and have a chance in every game. I expect them to do all they can to get the W.

That's fair.

If your players give 100%, but just don't have the skill to win, you really can't be upset with that. Its when they dont perform up to their abilities that it can become frustrating. I think that is what most want to see from this team.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yeah I expect effort. But realistically I don't expect them to win a lot this year. If the other team doesn't show up with good effort they should win, they are NHL players. But if a Tampa brings their best well we aren't going to be in that game.

Yep. That's basically what I'm saying. Realistically, they're undertalented compared to the best of the best. But they do have guys who are also NHL talents, so the other team needs to play that great game to win.

That's fair.

If your players give 100%, but just don't have the skill to win, you really can't be upset with that. Its when they dont perform up to their abilities that it can become frustrating. I think that is what most want to see from this team.

And yep. If they lose because Cholowski gets walked by Patrick Kane and/or Libor Sulak has Nikita Kucherov turn him inside out once during a game, but the rest of the game they acquit themselves very well, I'm happy with that game. They are talent deficient and if they just get outgunned by superstars, I'd understand that.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Is he though? Is he better now at things than he was as a rookie? What, specifically, is he better at? His stickhandling has always been good, but is he making better decisions with it? Not that I see. He's always been one of the fastest on the team. Why then do the Wings surrender so many high danger chances with him on the ice? He was at C two nights ago, how were his faceoffs? Deplorable, right?

And people rag on AA because the difference between him giving effort and not giving effort is so glaring. When he tries, he's among the top 3 best players on the ice in ANY game he plays. When he isn't, he's invisible. It has nothing to do with other players. The argument shouldn't be "oh, all these other guys suck and whatever too". It should be why this guy who should be one of our most dynamic players is so ****ing static in the majority of his games. Justin Abdelkader's lack of production has nothing to do with Andreas Athanasiou not giving an honest effort. Riley Sheahan when he was here not scoring a goal for 80 games doesn't make it okay for AA to slack off.

And please do not try to compare AA to Yzerman as a player or suggest that because Yzerman could do something that AA can or is likely to. That's embarrassing for you. Steve Yzerman is probably the 2nd best player to ever laced them up for the Wings and definitely is top 50 all time in the NHL. Just don't go there.

Andreas Athanasiou is an enigma. I wish there was some way to drop Danny Cleary's or Kris Draper's drive into him. That would be an outstanding player.




I mean, to be fair, the preseason doesn't mean a whole lot. Teams employ guys who will never see the ice when games mean anything (Jake Chelios, Jussi Jokinen, whoever the **** Hamilton was) Hell, in the preseason in 2006... the Red Wings had a guy on their roster named Robin Big Snake. Also, big name guys tend to be trying to either conserve energy or avoid injury.

AA could score 50 goals in a preseason "season" and it wouldn't matter to me if he didn't follow it up by actually trying when everyone else is trying.

Ok I get it you hate AA. Nothing I say will change this. Have a good day...

 

[obey86]

I THOUGHT THE ENTIRE TEAM WAS LACKING ENERGY IN THIS GAME.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Ok I get it you hate AA. Nothing I say will change this. Have a good day...

Get some quantifiable proof that he's actually getting better. He has been doing basically the same thing all three years. His PPG has stayed roughly equivalent, his TK/GV rate has stayed pretty static (as in, he's just playing more so the numbers are bigger). Just because he's 23 doesn't mean he's going to continue to get better. If he actually was improving, you should be able to point to something tangible that he's actually better at. Like Larkin. He was really good and then really bad and now he's really good again. Larkin is winning more faceoffs and he's become a really good playmaker and isn't shrinking away from top line duties. Can you say the same about AA?

I don't hate AA at all. I just don't like how he doesn't utilize the god-given talent he has. In fact, I think I like him more than you do, actually. I want him to actually be better because he's got the skill to be. Nothing with AA's performance has anything to do with any other player. He has the minutes he's got because he doesn't put in the effort to deserve more. A guy with his talent should be pushing for an 8M+ contract and top line minutes.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Get some quantifiable proof that he's actually getting better. He has been doing basically the same thing all three years. His PPG has stayed roughly equivalent, his TK/GV rate has stayed pretty static (as in, he's just playing more so the numbers are bigger). Just because he's 23 doesn't mean he's going to continue to get better. If he actually was improving, you should be able to point to something tangible that he's actually better at. Like Larkin. He was really good and then really bad and now he's really good again. Larkin is winning more faceoffs and he's become a really good playmaker and isn't shrinking away from top line duties. Can you say the same about AA?

I don't hate AA at all. I just don't like how he doesn't utilize the god-given talent he has. In fact, I think I like him more than you do, actually. I want him to actually be better because he's got the skill to be. Nothing with AA's performance has anything to do with any other player. He has the minutes he's got because he doesn't put in the effort to deserve more. A guy with his talent should be pushing for an 8M+ contract and top line minutes.

Then stop criticizing him every time he touches the ice. He is 23 years old. He will get better as a player and is clearly already one of the best on the team.... Larkin makes double AA's salary why are you comparing them?

 

[Ezekial]

He turned 24 2 months ago.

 

[lilidk]

It is going to be bad all year. Most of us are looking for positives that suggest the future will be better. Cholowski is an example.

AA had a very good pre-season, unfortunately had a lousy first game. Falling back to old habits is never encouraging.

Last year they look like they don't care. This year will be different.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I THOUGHT THE ENTIRE TEAM WAS LACKING ENERGY IN THIS GAME.

I don't think Larkin was lacking energy at all.