GDT: Columbus Blue Jackets vs. Detroit Red Wings | 10/4/2018 7:30PM ET| FSD MOD NOTE POST #750

[Syckle78]

Maybe he needs the right coach to motive him? Ever thought of that?

If a player needs a specific coach to motivate him that's a huge problem and indictment on his character. Probably not the case you want to be making.

 

[Shaman464]

Larkin was 8-1 on scoring chances for-against...
Athansiou was 4-15.

Pretty much tells the story.

Larkin doesn't score the highlight reel goals AA does but he's a better hockey player so who cares

Larkin was the reason we scored 2 goals last night.

But you don't see those on the Highlight Reel so they don't exist.

Seriously though, Larkin is more of a playmaker than he's gotten credit for, and I will admit I was wrong about that aspect of his game. He just isn't the flashiest guy out there, so some people miss all those things he can do to create offense.

 

[ricky0034]

If a player needs a specific coach to motivate him that's a huge problem and indictment on his character. Probably not the case you want to be making.

needing a coach other than Jeff Blashill isn't really the same thing as needing a specific coach though

Blashill is probably one of the worst coaches in the history of the league


not that I necessarily think getting another coach would do much for AA,but I definitely wouldn't rule it out when it's Blashill we're talking about

 

[Henkka]

Blashill is probably one of the worst coaches in the history of the league

Based on what?

 

[ricky0034]

Based on what?

three full seasons as the head coach of the team and almost literally everything he's ever done while coaching them?

that should be plenty of time for anyone to see that he's flat out incompetent at the NHL level and doesn't belong

but Holland hasn't kicked him to the curb yet so I guess he's okay with you

 

[Henkka]

three full seasons as the head coach of the team?

When Blashill had even decent but aging material with Pavel still there, he matched the results what Babcock was able to do. Playoff spot and 1st round exit against Tampa Bay.

When Pavel left, this team has had no chances. Zero. None. I pretty much think anybody else couldn't do any magic tricks with those results after Pavel left. This Red Wings era after both Pavel and Z reting is will be one of most unpleasant time for any coach. It will be a downswing no one can stop for few seasons.

When team loses, people blaim the coach. Ok. That's the shortcut, if somebody likes to do so. Getting/missing elite talent is the problem, not the coach.

***

And of course, people will be raising up Blashill's results again, when there's THE next coach in the team with better results, with elite talent got from draft from Blashill's poor era- Then it will "prove" your point, when it will prove also my point. We have talent again, so the next coach will look good. Everybody will praise the next one.

Just think a second and then come to praise him for real reasons.

 

[Syckle78]

needing a coach other than Jeff Blashill isn't really the same thing as needing a specific coach though

Blashill is probably one of the worst coaches in the history of the league


not that I necessarily think getting another coach would do much for AA,but I definitely wouldn't rule it out when it's Blashill we're talking about

Doesn't matter how bad of a coach you have you shouldn't need help with motivation. Being motivated and giving proper effort is the absolute minimum asked of a player. Especially a grown man being paid millions.

 

[ricky0034]

When Blashill had even decent but aging material with Pavel still there, he matched the results what Babcock was able to do. Playoff spot and 1st round exit against Tampa Bay.

When Pavel left, this team has had no chances. Zero. None. I pretty much think anybody else couldn't do any magic tricks with those results after Pavel left. This Red Wings era after both Pavel and Z reting is will be one of most unpleasant time for any coach. It will be a downswing no one can stop for few seasons.

When team loses, people blaim the coach. Ok. That's the shortcut, if somebody likes to do so. Getting/missing elite talent is the problem, not the coach.

***

And of course, people will be raising up Blashill's results again, when there's THE next coach in the team with better results, with elite talent got from draft from Blashill's poor era- Then it will "prove" your point, when it will prove also my point. We have talent again, so the next coach will look good. Everybody will praise the next one.

Just think a second and then come to praise him for real reasons.

I feel like people vastly overstate the impact of losing Datsyuk,the guy put up 49 points(in 66 games) he wasn't exactly Gretzky out there

then they replace him and an incredibly washed up Brad Richards with 48 games of Vanek as well as Frans Nielsen

I think the bigger impact is that Blashill just hadn't had as much time on the job yet,the more he "coaches" these guys the worse they get and I don't think that's a coincidence

 

[Henkka]

I feel like people vastly overstate the impact of losing Datsyuk,the guy put up 49 points(in 66 games) he wasn't exactly Gretzky out there

Feel free with our opinion. I think Pavel's importance goes deeper than just production.

Do you know what is a Selke Trophy ?

 

[RedMenace]

Blashill is probably one of the worst coaches in the history of the league

Dude, seriously. Come on now.

Have you witnessed anything remotely close to every coach in the history of the league? Are you familiar with their records, their styles, their opponents, etc?

Nah mate, you haven't. You're being absurdly hyperbolic for the sake of looking for a spacegoat, and it's not a good look.

 

[ricky0034]

Dude, seriously. Come on now.

Have you witnessed anything remotely close to every coach in the history of the league? Are you familiar with their records, their styles, their opponents, etc?

Nah mate, you haven't. You're being absurdly hyperbolic for the sake of looking for a spacegoat, and it's not a good look.

hence why I used the words "probably" and "one of"

I do think he's pretty decisively the very worst coach in the NHL currently is that better phrasing for you? and i've seen very few coaches throughout my lifetime that have even been close to as bad as he is(I think Dallas Eakins is a pretty good comparable here)

Doesn't matter how bad of a coach you have you shouldn't need help with motivation. Being motivated and giving proper effort is the absolute minimum asked of a player. Especially a grown man being paid millions.

it's an interesting world some people live in that's for sure

every player can find their game and be properly motivated without the help of a competent coach but meanwhile if you put a top prospect in the NHL slightly too early you somehow completely destroy their confidence

 

[RedMenace]

hence why I used the words "probably" and "one of"

I do think he's pretty decisively the very worst coach in the NHL currently is that better phrasing for you? and i've seen very few coaches throughout my lifetime that have even been close to as bad as he is

It's not about the phrasing, man, it's about the premise of your entire argument. I'm no fan of Blash, but he's far from one of the worst in *my* lifetime, let alone the lifetime of the Red Wings.

Presently, I still don't think he's a bad coach; he's just trying to use a system for which he doesn't have the personnel.

I mean, shit, in '15-'16 Blashill inherited essentially the same roster that Babcock had from '14-'15, and the records were 43-25-14 and 41-30-11 respectively. That's not a massive difference between one guy widely considered the best coach in the world, and one guy who is, according to you, "one of the worst ever." The difference between Toronto and Detroit now is about 10 years of "rebuild."

Again, allow me to be perfectly clear: I am NOT a fan of Blashill's coaching style, especially considering the personnel the Wings are icing. What I am debating, however, is that he is a completely shit coach.

 

[ricky0034]

It's not about the phrasing, man, it's about the pretense of your entire argument. I'm no fan of Blash, but he's far from one of the worst in *my* lifetime, let alone the lifetime of the Red Wings.

Presently, I still don't think he's a bad coach; he's just trying to use a system for which he doesn't have the personnel.

I mean, ****, in '15-'16 Blashill inherited essentially the same roster that Babcock had from '14-'15, and the records were 43-25-14 and 41-30-11 respectively. That's not a massive difference between one guy widely considered the best coach in the world, and one guy who is, according to you, "one of the worst ever." The difference between Toronto and Detroit now is about 10 years of "rebuild."

Again, allow me to be perfectly clear: I am NOT a fan of Blashill's coaching style, especially considering the personnel the Wings are icing. What I am debating, however, is that he is a completely **** coach.

as far as the whole Babcock thing goes I think when Babcock moved on he was actually holding the team back,he's a good coach but it was just time for a change(his message was a bit stale and there were all sorts of reports coming out about the players wanting him gone and such),I actually think it says something about Blashill that he was unable to come in in a situation like that and make the team better

they also declined in performance a bit more than that record would indicate,for one thing they went from a positive 14 goal differential to a negative 13 one which is actually a bigger swing than there was between Blashill's first year and his other two,they went from a +1.3 shot differential/game to an even one,their team corsi went from 6th best in the league to 25th best etc it was actually a somewhat significant drop if you dig into it a bit more

 

[RedMenace]

as far as the whole Babcock thing goes I think when Babcock moved on he was actually holding the team back,he's a good coach but it was just time for a change(his message was a bit stale and there were all sorts of reports coming out about the players wanting him gone and such),I actually think it says something about Blashill that he was unable to come in in a situation like that and make the team better

they also declined in performance a bit more than that record would indicate,for one thing they went from a positive 14 goal differential to a negative 13 one which is actually a bigger swing than there was between Blashill's first year and his other two,they went from a +1.3 shot differential/game to an even one,their team corsi went from 6th best in the league to 25th best etc it was actually a somewhat significant drop if you dig into it a bit more

Now you're just getting into hypotheticals. What would a different coach have accomplished with the same roster? Would they have been as bad? Would the "advanced stats" reflect the same thing? Would they have kept the Playoff streak going?

There are hills worth defending and dying upon; Blashill being one of the worst coaches in history of anything -- the NHL, the Red Wings, or even your lifetime -- isn't one of them, I promise you.

 

[TatarTangle]

What do people expect Blashill to do when Larkin is the only real talent on the team?

 

[Invictus12]

I think his parents taught him fine. He makes millions of dollars playing hockey and is a 23 year old kid.But apparently he is also a career criminal the way you paint him out to be lol


I have yet to see Larkin score all the highlight reel goals AA has....

He is incredibly, naturally gifted. He's very athletic and that has carried him. His refusal to engage in plays is more of a discipline issue and if he continues like that, he'll never reach better numbers than Abby. Except one does the work and the other waits for things to come to him. He has incredible potential but he fails to actually try and expand on it. I hope this was just one game this season sort of thing. However, in his first two seasons, this was his issue just as well.

 

[SCD]

I feel like people vastly overstate the impact of losing Datsyuk,the guy put up 49 points(in 66 games) he wasn't exactly Gretzky out there

then they replace him and an incredibly washed up Brad Richards with 48 games of Vanek as well as Frans Nielsen

I think the bigger impact is that Blashill just hadn't had as much time on the job yet,the more he "coaches" these guys the worse they get and I don't think that's a coincidence

How much input do you think Blashill has on player signings ? That falls mostly on Holland.

Blashill has to coach what is on the ice in front of him.

 

[ricky0034]

How much input do you think Blashill has on player signings ? That falls mostly on Holland.

Blashill has to coach what is on the ice in front of him.

huh? I was just saying that Holland brought in guys to replace what Datsyuk brought

 

[TheOtherOne]

Doesn't matter how bad of a coach you have you shouldn't need help with motivation. Being motivated and giving proper effort is the absolute minimum asked of a player. Especially a grown man being paid millions.

This is stupid, you can complain about players' character all you want, but the only objective is to win hockey games. What if Gretzky was autistic and the only way he could play the way he did was to play under one specific coach? You get that coach, obviously, because you want the player to be the best he can be, so you win more games.

 

[TCNorthstars]

This is stupid, you can complain about players' character all you want, but the only objective is to win hockey games. What if Gretzky was autistic and the only way he could play the way he did was to play under one specific coach? You get that coach, obviously, because you want the player to be the best he can be, so you win more games.

Pot...meet kettle

So you are going to cycle through coches to find that one that AA will give effort for?

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I don’t think Blashill is a good coach, but there’s worse coaches in the league right now, let alone in the history of the league.

Also, the AA criticism remains the most overblown issue on the board.

 

[Invictus12]

This is stupid, you can complain about players' character all you want, but the only objective is to win hockey games. What if Gretzky was autistic and the only way he could play the way he did was to play under one specific coach? You get that coach, obviously, because you want the player to be the best he can be, so you win more games.

Okay, so when Blash does bench him, shouldn't that be a way to motivate him? What do you think, pleading with him will work? AA leaves his teamates out to dry. He doesn't do his part to help the team win. He seems to act as though the team is there to set him up for goals. I have issues with the way Blash coaches but thats a whole separate issue from the way AA plays.

 

[Invictus12]

Edit: Easier to delete this post than fix all the mistakes that we're un-comprehedable...

 

[Obe2kenobe]

If a player needs a specific coach to motivate him that's a huge problem and indictment on his character. Probably not the case you want to be making.

No one knows if a problem lies with Blash or AA regarding his motivation. But a good coach knows each player is motivated differently. Some players respond to a kick in the ***. Some need a pat on the back. Is Blashill a good coach that knows how to motivate different players. Who knows?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

No one knows if a problem lies with Blash or AA regarding his motivation. But a good coach knows each player is motivated differently. Some players respond to a kick in the ***. Some need a pat on the back. Is Blashill a good coach that knows how to motivate different players. Who knows?

AA has had effort issues his entire career, whether Blashill was on his bench or not and I am talking clear back to junior.

People can argue about whether Blashill is a good coach, fine. But, Blashill has nothing to do with the way AA checks out in games and doesn't make simple hockey reads. Sorry but that is on AA and I am a little tired of the narrative that we should just gift and try to accommodate one guy that isn't putting in the appropriate amount of effort. Hopefully Vanek can pump up AA's trade value and we can ship AA at the deadline so we are done discussing him around here is how I feel about him at this point.

Signs weren't encouraging on the first night. I have a few buddies that scout in the league and multiple pro scouts have AA on their do not advise list with their teams currently. One of them flat out calls AA a coach killer. So that is the other unfortunate thing for all his potential it seems the rest of the league might have gathered in on the same problems in terms of him being very unlikely to reach said potential because of his hockey IQ and engagement. He needs to change that narrative, not Blashill. If he is doing this in hopes of getting a new coach well look down at Bylsma because at this point AA is tanking his reputation so he should probably get his *** in gear and we know who his next likely coach is. Keep in mind NHL people love the Hunter brothers who he decided to feud with in junior as a kid and has carried with him to NHL circles. I don't think that is fair, but then again sometimes when I watch him play with the Wings aside from the weight he has put on he looks exactly like the solo desperado player he was with the Knights without a whole lot new to his game...