GDT: Colorado Aveslanche @ San Jose | 8 PM MT
- Thread starter UncleRisto
- Start date
Mine was. Read a few posts back and you'll see.
Faceoffs are not vital to team success but man it's sure frustrating when a team can't win them to save their lives.
No one here is pounding the table for the Avs to go out and entice Zenon Konopka or Paul Gaustad to come out of retirement. But it's nice when the Avs address this issue, which they only did very sparingly last season, if at all.
I WILL say that the combination of being bad at faceoffs (especially KEY faceoffs) and having a goalie in Grubauer who was not good at tracking the puck was just plain maddening. So many goals against I could remember being the direct result of the Avs losing the draw in their own zone and Grubauer still looking for it by the time it was in the net.
No one here is pounding the table for the Avs to go out and entice Zenon Konopka or Paul Gaustad to come out of retirement. But it's nice when the Avs address this issue, which they only did very sparingly last season, if at all.
I WILL say that the combination of being bad at faceoffs (especially KEY faceoffs) and having a goalie in Grubauer who was not good at tracking the puck was just plain maddening. So many goals against I could remember being the direct result of the Avs losing the draw in their own zone and Grubauer still looking for it by the time it was in the net.
The Kingslayer
Registered User
True. Key faceoffs is all that matters. On the PP, Anytime during OT, On the PK especially in your end, Down a goal in the O zone in the final minutes with goalie pulled. Those are the only faceoffs that should matter.
niwotsblessing
Registered User
Hey, maybe y'all should have a dedicated face-off thread. Keep it going all season, maybe it'll outperform the injury thread.
I really don't think being on the PP matters. For starters, losing the faceoff isn't even a guaranteed clear for the killing team. In fact I think part of the Avs game plan on the PP when Mack takes a faceoff is to lose, with the wingers have the immediate intention of jumping on the Dmen to force a quick turnover. We've seem them do exactly this before.
Plus, it's also not like all of those faceoff situations matter either. Does a PK faceoff matter when you're up or down by 3+ goals. Do they matter in the 1st period?
I would say only in tight game scenarios do any of these faceoffs really matter, and then it's only those special circumstances, PP(If you consider it important)/PK or Empty Net scenarios.
And when you compare those very small number of situations where it matters to the dozens of situations where it doesn't matter... You're basically talking about a ~90-95% meaningless split. Or as the original article formulated, 0.02 points per faceoff win above the m
Then you look at the fact the very best faceoff guys in the league are at like ~58% while the worst ones are around 40% as well.
I've noticed for a while some of their best games they get caved in at the dot.
Foppa2118
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2003
- 52,277
- 31,367
Saying faceoffs don't matter because the stats say they only matter a small percentage of the time, is like saying looking both ways before crossing the street doesn't mater, because it only matters a small percentage of the time.
Or that power plays don't matter because they only score a small percentage of the time.
Or that power plays don't matter because they only score a small percentage of the time.
The Kingslayer
Registered User
Both threads will outperform Jonathan Drouin
Exactly. Hockey is a game of small edges, every edge matters when you think about the whole picture. Small edge in everything makes a big edge. This is true especially in NHL where competition is tough and edges are small/marginal.
- Aug 25, 2006
- 9,350
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Saying Mack doesn't care about important faceoffs is a myth. He doesn't care much about the neutral zone faceoffs, true. The important faceoffs are deferred to Mikko or RyJo because he himself knows they are better at them so why take them. Deferring to the other two guys IMO proves he cares about important faceoffs because they have a much better chance to win them. If he didn't care he would insist in taken them because he is the C. He only takes those when the other guy gets thrown out and then he cares a lot more. You can easily see he puts a lot more effort in winning those than the neutral zone faceoffs. I would like to see his faceoffs split betwwen neutral zone and the situational faceoffs when he is forced to take them. I bet his % is much better.
Mack not taking the faceoffs on the PP is actually a very good strategy. Instead of being tied up in the dot he is free all by himself to take a shot on net.
Mack not taking the faceoffs on the PP is actually a very good strategy. Instead of being tied up in the dot he is free all by himself to take a shot on net.
El Travo
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
- Aug 11, 2015
- 14,385
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Faceoffs are important. End of. Every shift you can start with possession is a shift where you aren't chasing down the puck carrier. While it isn't crucial to start every shift with the puck, it certainly would be beneficial.
How many powerplays go down the drain due to a lost faceoff followed by the inability to regain the zone? How many penalties go un-killed because the opposition starts with the puck and we can't clear? Hell, Game 1 showed us that even a lost draw at centre ice can lead to a goal which could have potentially swung the momentum of the game.
"Only important faceoffs matter". You don't just flip a switch at important moments in a game and magically win all your faceoffs as needed. You're either consistently good at them, or you're likely to fail when it matters.
Dismissing faceoffs as an unimportant facet of the game is ridiculous.
How many powerplays go down the drain due to a lost faceoff followed by the inability to regain the zone? How many penalties go un-killed because the opposition starts with the puck and we can't clear? Hell, Game 1 showed us that even a lost draw at centre ice can lead to a goal which could have potentially swung the momentum of the game.
"Only important faceoffs matter". You don't just flip a switch at important moments in a game and magically win all your faceoffs as needed. You're either consistently good at them, or you're likely to fail when it matters.
Dismissing faceoffs as an unimportant facet of the game is ridiculous.
- Aug 25, 2006
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- 7,443
katfude
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2015
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We as a collective watched the 16-17 Avs be 2nd in the league in faceoff % while getting 48 points, and yet people put value in that stat for some reason.
From 2021
From 2017
theathletic.com
From 2021
From 2017
Charting Hockey: On the value of faceoffs
It happened again. On Saturday night, the Maple Leafs faced off against the Buffalo Sabres in an eventual 3-1 loss. The loss isn’t the “happened again” part – though, Leafs fans have endured many defeats at the hands of their divisional rival over the past decade or more. The “happened...
theathletic.com
lionsDen
Hated And Proud
- Jan 26, 2022
- 3,440
- 2,205
lionsDen
Hated And Proud
- Jan 26, 2022
- 3,440
- 2,205
We as a collective watched the 16-17 Avs be 2nd in the league in faceoff % while getting 48 points, and yet people put value in that stat for some reason.
From 2021
From 2017
Charting Hockey: On the value of faceoffs
It happened again. On Saturday night, the Maple Leafs faced off against the Buffalo Sabres in an eventual 3-1 loss. The loss isn’t the “happened again” part – though, Leafs fans have endured many defeats at the hands of their divisional rival over the past decade or more. The “happened...
I always knew the 16-17 Avs were good at something. 2nd best is some impressive stuff. There should be a trophy for this.
We as a collective watched the 16-17 Avs be 2nd in the league in faceoff % while getting 48 points, and yet people put value in that stat for some reason.
From 2021
From 2017
Charting Hockey: On the value of faceoffs
It happened again. On Saturday night, the Maple Leafs faced off against the Buffalo Sabres in an eventual 3-1 loss. The loss isn’t the “happened again” part – though, Leafs fans have endured many defeats at the hands of their divisional rival over the past decade or more. The “happened...
I appreciate the continued effort but at this point it simply is what it is... We could throw all the stats and graphs in the world into this thread to show how meaningless faceoffs are and they'll ignore every one of them.
Just let them continue believing in it.
At least Bednar believes winning faceoffs. I think he started the last overtime with Johansen as a center and then he switched off instantly when he won it. I think it was Makar-Johansen-MacKinnon and then Johansen won the faceoff and left the ice.
Someone confirm.
Getting the first possession in 3vs3 is pretty good.
Someone confirm.
Getting the first possession in 3vs3 is pretty good.
Yeah I even said earlier in this thread that the opening faceoff to OT was the single most important faceoff in a game.
Because its so much harder to regain possession in OT playing 3 on 3 compared to 5 on 5 where its very easy to regain possession.
GirardSpinorama
Registered User
- Aug 20, 2004
- 21,154
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Winning face offs as a team isnt that important. Having one or two guys that can be reliable at high leverage faceoff situations is important.
dahrougem2
Registered User
People put too much stock into centres for faceoffs. You have to teach faceoffs to the entire 5 man unit.
Your centre can win a draw clean but if his winger lets the other winger by without setting a pick/bumping him, there's no scoring opportunity.
If you win a defensive zone draw clean but their winger jumps our defensemen and gets to the puck in the corner first, what was the point of that faceoff win?
It's a 5-man endeavor.
Your centre can win a draw clean but if his winger lets the other winger by without setting a pick/bumping him, there's no scoring opportunity.
If you win a defensive zone draw clean but their winger jumps our defensemen and gets to the puck in the corner first, what was the point of that faceoff win?
It's a 5-man endeavor.
