GDT: Colorado Avalanche vs Anaheim Ducks 2/11/2014

[JLo217]

Also to those saying and questioning their ability to judge talent I completely agree. They said the team was better even if they don't get as many points.

Well two things can be said. The team is certainly not better, nor will it be with this current cast. And they will also not reach the same amount of points as last year.

I think the guys that were brought in for Sacco were much better moves. Mitchell, McGinn, EJ, PAP Flash and even Hejda for a period of time are looking a WHOLE lot better than Guenin, Holden, Talbot, Briere, Stuart and Iggy. I think there are some issues in our pro scouting staff without a doubt. Either that or Roy is trusting his buddies' opinions to much.

 

[ABasin]

Firstly it's very apparent that varly only trusts ej and Stuart.

That's an interesting statement. Would you care to expand upon it?

 

[ABasin]

My breakdown of the Fowler situation:

Cody Nickolet @Avs_Tweets · 55m

No matter who had initial responsibility for Fowler, Guenin really torched that play. I mean, if I'm part of a defensive pairing, and a guy comes down 1-on-2 and beats my defensive partner, am I supposed to just watch the other player go to the net because he was originally my partner's responsibility? The moment Fowler started to take one stride towards the middle of the ice, he was Guenin's man, as he had beaten (for lack of a better word) Iginla. Very limp play there.

 

[Hesher]

Roy needs to make some changes but it doesn't help that way too many players are still underperforming.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Roy needs to make some changes but it doesn't help that way too many players are still underperforming.

The team definitely has too many passengers. The consistently good teams have players that fit a role, they contribute in some meaningful way. We have way too many players that just aren't good.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

The team definitely has too many passengers. The consistently good teams have players that fit a role, they contribute in some meaningful way. We have way too many players that just aren't good.

I'd say we have too many players that fit too narrow of a role personally. A bunch of character PKers that are limited in skill/abillity and simply fill roster spots. In both the forward and defensive slots.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

No matter who had initial responsibility for Fowler, Guenin really torched that play. I mean, if I'm part of a defensive pairing, and a guy comes down 1-on-2 and beats my defensive partner, am I supposed to just watch the other player go to the net because he was originally my partner's responsibility? The moment Fowler started to take one stride towards the middle of the ice, he was Guenin's man, as he had beaten (for lack of a better word) Iginla. Very limp play there.

I honestly have no problem with a Dman taking away his man on a 2 on 1. I would rather see 1 guy with a clear path to the goal than the defender in that situation try to attack the puck and just have it passed over to the other guy who is more than likely going to have a wide open net. I trust Varly to stop the head on rush more than I would a defender to block a pass back over to the other side or for Varly to make a desperation save because said pass was completed.

 

[cgf]

Fire/Trade everybody! lol you guys are hilarious.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I'd say we have too many players that fit too narrow of a role personally. A bunch of character PKers that are limited in skill/abillity and simply fill roster spots. In both the forward and defensive slots.

I'd agree with this description of the team as well. When I look at the roster here are the players I think fit into more than just a limited role:

Forwards:
Duchene
MacKinnon
O'Reilly
Landeskog
Tanguay
Iginla
McGinn
Mitchell
Talbot

Defense:
EJ
Barrie
Stuart

With our forwards, Talbot is arguable. He is good enough defensively that he can play as a fourth line forward and be effective there as well as contributing on the PK. On defense, I've actually liked the way that Stuart has looked over the last few games and think that he has a role on the team as a bottom-pairing defender, as well as a very good PKer.

I think we are missing an entire fourth line that is capable of harassing other teams. Our fourth line is a time waster, they go out there, they let the other team cycle and exhaust our defense, and then they get off the ice. They aren't an overly physical line, they aren't good enough defensively to shutdown lines, they just wear down their own teammates. On defense, Holden needs to be played in a limited role on the bottom pairing to be effective. The more exposure he gets, the more his weaknesses shine through. Hejda has clearly lost a step this year, and just lags behind in play. Guenin is not an NHLer, and should not be on this roster if they want to win.

I think a player like Everberg can do quite well for himself as a bottom-6 player, but he has not had enough games for us to know if Roy is willing to play him in that role full time.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Fire/Trade everybody! lol you guys are hilarious.

I haven't seen anyone clamoring to fire or trade everyone. We are simply identifying the issues that many of us have been complaining about even prior to last season. This team has been too complacent when it comes to additions to the bottom-6 and the defense. Good teams have a bottom-6 that contributes to wearing down or shutting down the oppositions offensive lines/defenders, our does not do that in the least. Good teams have 5-6 defensemen that are capable of preventing their team from getting shelled, we clearly do not. These are issues that are easily observed, and they should be complained about.

 

[Bender]

It's just insulting to fans that this bipolar team even exists. One game the Avs are skating well, moving the puck well and generally a solid team minus the defense. Then the next they are pinned down in their own zone, barely moving their feet and 2/3 of the forwards are cheating to exit the zone.

Further proof that some teams have figured out our defensive systems and some have not. Sure there are some games where we've had more jump than others but we have gotten pinned in our zone for really, really long stretches of time this year (especially our 4th line).

Reading this thread is disturbing, some of the commentary is ridiculous and childish.

I fully agree that, no one likes the way this season has started. Not management, not the players, not the coaches and not the fans. No one likes losing. But it happens, and you've got to change something or it's going to continue to happen.

I can't believe that people are pissed at Roy for calling out Iginla, what is he not prone to criticism? His play this year has been underwhelming at best sans a couple games and he blew and assignment last night. Roy had every right to call him out. He expects more from players like Iginla than players like Guenin that's why he was called out and not Guenin. Guenin's punishment will be nacho time, which is far worse than being singled out in a press conference. And if Iginla can't take it or if he wants out, then fine who cares he is a pansy if he can't take some criticism.

What blows my mind even further is people saying Roy should get fired, are you kidding me? We only won the division last year and he won the Jack Adams, which is 10x better than any of our recent previous coaches did. It's called a rough start, and even if we finish dead last this year, he still deserves to be the coach. If you can't take a rough patch for a team you probably shouldn't watch sports because every team has rough spots, it's how you respond to them that separate the good coaches from the average ones.

The point of the matter right now is there is a lot more going on than coaching issues. We have a lot of players that are severely under-performing their capabilities. I think we know who those players are but just in case you forgot: Landeskog (5pts in 13 games ) not acceptable for the captain, ROR generally been lazy as **** this year. Even Duchene and MacK haven't been as good as they were last year. A bunch of our dmen have yet to play to their capabilities.

The point is that it has been a lazy ass start to the year. Our players though it was going to be easy, and they just aren't giving the consistent effort to get the job done. The coaches need to get off their butts change it up and light a fire under these players. The coaches need to re-evaluate their game plan and think of something fresh because whatever we're doing now isn't working.

Some of what you say is true. We haven't seen great, consistent efforts from everyone this year, however, I wouldn't go as far as to say it's been a lazy start to the year and put it all on the players. The man-to-man HAS been countered, to suggest otherwise would be ridiculous, and it shouldn't be up to the players to work twice as hard as any other team on a nightly basis to avoid getting dominated because our tactics play right into the opposition's hands. With a solid, consistent effort that matches the opposition, we should be able to pull out our share of wins.

Way too often, opposing teams gain our blueline, move the puck around and make switches that leave our players looking completely lost as to who they should cover. This is not due to laziness, they are trying but spend large portions of each game running around in our own end. I don't care that we only give up shots from the outside, our team is getting worn out. Besides, how many times are we seeing shots from the point that are getting deflected towards the goal?? It's happening more and more and THOSE are difficult to stop for any goalie.

The problem with calling out Iggy on that play shows a complete lack of understanding from our coach as to how a man to man system should be run. Iggy was in great position to cover the point. Guenin was in great position to cover the puck carrier. Perfect example of how players should switch who their man is. but instead Roy believes iggy should still be responsible for that man because well that was his man to start with. That is just stupid defense.

I think Roy called out Iggy because he wants more from him, not necessarily because of that play per se. He's probably not too far wrong but from all I've heard, Iggy is going to get better and better as the year goes on and I've already been impressed with him at times this year, so I'm not worried. Like someone else already said, Roy isn't going to call out his worst player in the media and dump all over him...that would never happen. Instead, he'll likely be scratched for next game and it will be up to the players to play harder when Redmond comes back in, to make sure he stays in the lineup and Guenin stays out.

I have no idea how Guenin could just stand there and point around. Does he think he is some genius defensive general? If I was in that situation, I would have realized that no one was impeding Fowler and stepped up on him.

A very large percentage of NHL players would have stepped up on Fowler rather than just try to hack him like a Pejorative Slur like Guenin did. I've said it before, there are reasons why that guy was still a career minor leaguer at age 30.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Has anyone been keeping tabs on our ahl defense prospects? Is there any hope our defense can be bolstered before all hope of a playoff berth is smothered? Siemens or Bigras making any strides?
Also whatever happened to Elliot? Was he claimed off of waivers?

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

I'd agree with this description of the team as well. When I look at the roster here are the players I think fit into more than just a limited role:

We could argue over specific players, but the point is well made. The versatility of our lineup is limited at best and the system right now seems to be hurting the team as a whole. Which is quite the opposite to last year when it seemed to shield our lesser players.

One critical difference though, not simply the opposition adapting, is that our wingers are not doing as well of a job supporting the defense. It's sticking out like a sore thumb every game when the wingers cheat up the boards and the defenders are forced to turn it over or ice it to get it out of the zone.

When you're resorting to dumping the puck to clear the zone then you're getting outplayed.

 

[ABasin]

I honestly have no problem with a Dman taking away his man on a 2 on 1. I would rather see 1 guy with a clear path to the goal than the defender in that situation try to attack the puck and just have it passed over to the other guy who is more than likely going to have a wide open net. I trust Varly to stop the head on rush more than I would a defender to block a pass back over to the other side or for Varly to make a desperation save because said pass was completed.

I agree.

However in my example, I said 1-on-2, not 2-on-1.

 

[The Shermanator]

Scratch ROR for a game. Send a message.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Has anyone been keeping tabs on our ahl defense prospects? Is there any hope our defense can be bolstered before all hope of a playoff berth is smothered? Siemens or Bigras making any strides?
Also whatever happened to Elliot? Was he claimed off of waivers?

I do, you might want to check out either the Monsters or Prospects threads. The Avs stress me out (even when things are going well) it's relaxing for me to follow our prospects.

In short, I doubt Roy is going to seriously use anyone from the minors this year. Siemens deserves a look at some point but more to assess his NHL potential than to significantly increase the team's defensive performance. I like how Noreau has played but he's more of an offensive/puck mover so if your problem with the defense is defensive capacity then he's not the savior either. But he plays hard and could give the team a boost. If there ever is a callup made and he isn't the first 1-2 looked at I'd be baffled. Elliott is still with us, does some good things with the Monsters and seems to be getting his confidence back but I don't think he's in the top tier of callups at this point.

Bigras is doing well in juniors, adding more offense to his game this year. I really like a Geertsen too. He's everything you want in a Dman. There are some decent options coming up but to think they'll contribute even next year is probably getting ahead of ourselves. If you (or anyone) wants more discussion on prospects please post in that thread. I feel like I'm talking to myself about it half the time and will spare y'all from hearing it in detail here.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

You guys are all saying how Roy is playing system wrong and crap like that but do you guys realize it is ROY's system? You can define man to man all you want but we don't know if the regular man to man definition is what Roy asks of his payers. He made his system and he's rewarding his players based on how they play it. We can agree or disagree all we want but we cant say Roy is playing his own system wrong.

 

[chet1926]

Scratch ROR for a game. Send a message.

Do you honestly think that would do anything? We are talking about the guy who willingly held out and missed a bunch of games because he wanted more money, what's one game going to do?

ROR is perfectly content to be lazy as ****, and rake in a huge paycheck. The guy owes Duchene big time thank you for putting him on easy street. You take away Duchene and ROR becomes a 50pts 2nd line center, not 65pts 1st line winger.

ROR won't ever put in a good effort until he is on a different team, he has no reason to work hard we already paid him and he knows somebody desperate will pay him big bucks in 2 years. Why bother putting in effort when you know you're going to get paid big time either way.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Will Roy attempt the lando dutchy razor line going forward or was that a desperation line to try and force a goal?

 

[R S]

You guys are all saying how Roy is playing system wrong and crap like that but do you guys realize it is ROY's system? You can define man to man all you want but we don't know if the regular man to man definition is what Roy asks of his payers. He made his system and he's rewarding his players based on how they play it. We can agree or disagree all we want but we cant say Roy is playing his own system wrong.

I don't think I've ever said that.

All I've said is that his idea of a system is garbage and clearly hasn't worked. Sure, the team won a ton of games last year but were bound for regression. That regression is coming through.

I've said it before, I get the feeling from Roy that he feels he's come up with some kind of genius plan that can ignore the basics of numbers in hockey. He tempts fate by using the systems he does, constantly getting outshot.

I don't see this team taking big strides forward until he learns to adapt. I've read a lot about him as a person and as a player and am 100% surprised at how little we see him expanding on his current concepts or changing the way he handles the lineup and team strategy.

He was a master of video in his day as a player and it gave him an edge. I thought he'd be more progressive as a coach than he has been so far. Sure, a Jack Adams winner, that's great. He deserved it. He proved to be a great motivator of the guys last year. But that has caught up to him and it's time for him to try some new things out because the way this team operates in their own zone continues to be appalling, just as it was last year.

 

[bohlmeister]

Do you honestly think that would do anything? We are talking about the guy who willingly held out and missed a bunch of games because he wanted more money, what's one game going to do?

ROR is perfectly content to be lazy as ****, and rake in a huge paycheck. The guy owes Duchene big time thank you for putting him on easy street. You take away Duchene and ROR becomes a 50pts 2nd line center, not 65pts 1st line winger.

ROR won't ever put in a good effort until he is on a different team, he has no reason to work hard we already paid him and he knows somebody desperate will pay him big bucks in 2 years. Why bother putting in effort when you know you're going to get paid big time either way.

IMO, ROR owes Duchene at least $2 million in compensation.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Will Roy attempt the lando dutchy razor line going forward or was that a desperation line to try and force a goal?

poor Duchene has to do all the heavy lifting while ROR and Landeskog flub passes and play dumb.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I agree.

However in my example, I said 1-on-2, not 2-on-1.

Dooh. My bad. Yeah, if we have 2 defenders to their 1 guy then both guys better be all over that 1 dude.

 

[agentblack]

IMO, ROR owes Duchene at least $2 million in compensation.

I know it doesnt help but i cant but get an indignant smile
looking at ROR playing the way he is now
Like you wanted how much?

 

[Foppa2118]

My breakdown of the Fowler situation:

Cody Nickolet @Avs_Tweets · 55m

Firstly, like I mentioned previously, I also totally disagree with Roy blaming Iginla over Guenin on this goal.

I think people are missing why he's blaming him though. Fowler went from up high where Iginla was, to down low in the corner, then quickly circled up the boards to receive the pass on the cycle. These are the types of plays teams are using against the Avs, because their mobility and their awareness sucks and they eventually breakdown.

Last year teams were doing the same cycling most of the year to try and confuse them, and while the D's mobility still sucked then, the team was sharp in their awareness and were able to contain plays without getting confused. They're not at all sharp this year, and get hemmed in their own zone too easily. I don't think teams are doing that much different.

The mistake in coverage Roy is blaming Iginla for, is not following Fowler from up high to down low, he stayed where he was. That in part is correct IMO to blame him for, because that's how Roy's system works. Replays just don't show a good angle to realize this is what happened. You have to piece it together while you watch it a few times because there's so many moving pieces, and Fowler is out of the shot for a lot of it while the camera angle keeps changing.

This is all a minor issue though IMO, which makes blaming Iggy over Guenin ridiculous. It was a minor breakdown in coverage that happens occasionally, especially when the D can't break up the play or get the puck out, and they get trapped in their zone forever running around like on this play. What you have to do in that situation is bend but not break.

The major reason the goal was scored was that Guenin was starring at Iginla trying to tell him what to do for waaay too long, instead of seeing there was a guy coming right toward him with the puck. It doesn't matter what happened before, you have to adjust to where the dangerous players are on the ice if there's a breakdown. You don't tell Iginla to cover a guy that no longer makes sense for him to cover, just because that's where he should have been a few seconds ago. You adjust, and you don't stare at Iginla totally unaware of what the puck carrier is doing.

All he had to do was be aware on the ice of what was happening, and he could have easily broken up the play. That's inexcusable, but Roy chose to blame a HOFer and brand new player, instead of one of his golden boy defenseman he refuses to take out of the lineup.