GDT: Colorado Avalanche vs Anaheim Ducks 2/11/2014

[InjuredChoker]

our PK is more aggressive than our 5on5 D, better at getting into passing lanes, more aggressive along the boards.. and works better. and no man-on-man there.

we should probably start having F hanging around other teams blueline during 5on5 play.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Hey IC, what were the scoring chances?

Roy "calls out" Iginla on Fowler Goal

Un-frigging-believable.



Sure, let's not mention the guy who stands there, pointing at one of his teammates (who is already covering a man) and just allows Fowler to walk in, offering only the lightest of stick checks, and take a nice shot.

WoW. If thats how this D is suppose to work then it needs to be canned immediately. There is absolutely no way each defender can stay with the same guy an entire shift. Even in basketball you have players switch men when the situation calls for it. And they are not on skates where one wrong step can put tons of room between you and your man. My god this has got to be the dumbest philosophy I have heard of.

 

[R S]

My breakdown of the Fowler situation:

Cody Nickolet @Avs_Tweets · 55m

Looking at the above image, Iginla is at the top of the screen and in the normal, correct spot for a winger in the defensive zone. He’s up near the blueline, guarding the defender. In fact, there are actually two player’s up at the blueline. While both aren’t his, at least one of them would be in a “normal” defensive coverage scheme.

Cliché is guarding his man in front and doing a decent job of it. Barrie is stuck right on his man’s hip, also doing a good job (this is some evidence of Roy’s hybrid man-to-man system as you rarely see a defender float that high up in the defensive zone in a normal system). That leaves McGinn and Guenin standing in the slot, not covering anyone.

So, based on Roy’s comments he wants Iginla to step up and try and defend Fowler in this situation? Ok, say he does that. With Barrie rotating to his left and therefore unavailable, that would leave a simple and soft little pass for Fowler to make back to the point, leaving two Ducks completely unguarded and holding the puck. While McGinn and Guenin would then at least be in the shooting lane, it’s still not the ideal solution based on most defensive systems. This is yet another example of how Roy’s mindset defensively is to have a system that is basically man-to-man with constant rotation, staying in the shooting lanes as much as possible.

Personally, I think Guenin should be the one to step into the circle to try and defend Fowler in this case. Charge straight to the dot, using your stick in your left hand to take away a play to the middle of the ice, force Fowler down closer to the corner. His only options then would be to either shoot from a tough angle or hold onto the puck. Instead Guenin stands there and watches Fowler walk straight to the middle of the ice, attempting a weak slash on him and not moving his feet.

I really don’t understand how Patrick Roy, as an NHL coach, can point the finger at Jarome Iginla on this play. To me it shows that his style of a defensive system is flawed and is in all reality the reason why Colorado continues to flail away both in the standings and in their puck possession numbers. Plays like this aren’t exactly rare for this team. And not only that, I think a play like this is piece of evidence #5001 that Nate Guenin is not an NHL defenceman.

 

[Freudian]

Silver lining. While the game was a loss it gave us the physical comedy of D. Everberg.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Hey IC, what were the scoring chances?

3-5.

 

[chet1926]

Reading this thread is disturbing, some of the commentary is ridiculous and childish.

I fully agree that, no one likes the way this season has started. Not management, not the players, not the coaches and not the fans. No one likes losing. But it happens, and you've got to change something or it's going to continue to happen.

I can't believe that people are pissed at Roy for calling out Iginla, what is he not prone to criticism? His play this year has been underwhelming at best sans a couple games and he blew and assignment last night. Roy had every right to call him out. He expects more from players like Iginla than players like Guenin that's why he was called out and not Guenin. Guenin's punishment will be nacho time, which is far worse than being singled out in a press conference. And if Iginla can't take it or if he wants out, then fine who cares he is a pansy if he can't take some criticism.

What blows my mind even further is people saying Roy should get fired, are you kidding me? We only won the division last year and he won the Jack Adams, which is 10x better than any of our recent previous coaches did. It's called a rough start, and even if we finish dead last this year, he still deserves to be the coach. If you can't take a rough patch for a team you probably shouldn't watch sports because every team has rough spots, it's how you respond to them that separate the good coaches from the average ones.

The point of the matter right now is there is a lot more going on than coaching issues. We have a lot of players that are severely under-performing their capabilities. I think we know who those players are but just in case you forgot: Landeskog (5pts in 13 games ) not acceptable for the captain, ROR generally been lazy as **** this year. Even Duchene and MacK haven't been as good as they were last year. A bunch of our dmen have yet to play to their capabilities.

The point is that it has been a lazy ass start to the year. Our players though it was going to be easy, and they just aren't giving the consistent effort to get the job done. The coaches need to get off their butts change it up and light a fire under these players. The coaches need to re-evaluate their game plan and think of something fresh because whatever we're doing now isn't working.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

3-5.

Thanks. I really do like the limited number of chances we are giving up. We just have to eliminate the bonehead plays, and keep guys from getting uncontested tips on shots from the point. Thats the only way to score on Varly at the moment, other than running him over like that first goal last night.

 

[bohlmeister]

My breakdown of the Fowler situation:

Cody Nickolet @Avs_Tweets · 55m

Agree with everything you said.

I think Roy is stating that Fowler is Iggy's man. So that means 10 seconds before Fowler was on the wall with the puck, Iginla should have been stuck to him the entire time, and it wouldn't have led to the unfortunate situation where we ask Guenin to defend an NHL player.

As others have mentioned, our PK being good should be a bit of an eye opener to Roy that zone defense could work. This m2m stuff is getting sickening.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Thanks. I really do like the limited number of chances we are giving up. We just have to eliminate the bonehead plays, and keep guys from getting uncontested tips on shots from the point. Thats the only way to score on Varly at the moment, other than running him over like that first goal last night.

it's small sample but after the first period of sharks game, avs have done noticeably better job limiting other teams scoring chances. only 12 chances in those 8 periods + 10 mins of OT.

 

[JLo217]

Reading this thread is disturbing, some of the commentary is ridiculous and childish.

I fully agree that, no one likes the way this season has started. Not management, not the players, not the coaches and not the fans. No one likes losing. But it happens, and you've got to change something or it's going to continue to happen.

I can't believe that people are pissed at Roy for calling out Iginla, what is he not prone to criticism? His play this year has been underwhelming at best sans a couple games and he blew and assignment last night. Roy had every right to call him out. He expects more from players like Iginla than players like Guenin that's why he was called out and not Guenin. Guenin's punishment will be nacho time, which is far worse than being singled out in a press conference. And if Iginla can't take it or if he wants out, then fine who cares he is a pansy if he can't take some criticism.

What blows my mind even further is people saying Roy should get fired, are you kidding me? We only won the division last year and he won the Jack Adams, which is 10x better than any of our recent previous coaches did. It's called a rough start, and even if we finish dead last this year, he still deserves to be the coach. If you can't take a rough patch for a team you probably shouldn't watch sports because every team has rough spots, it's how you respond to them that separate the good coaches from the average ones.

The point of the matter right now is there is a lot more going on than coaching issues. We have a lot of players that are severely under-performing their capabilities. I think we know who those players are but just in case you forgot: Landeskog (5pts in 13 games ) not acceptable for the captain, ROR generally been lazy as **** this year. Even Duchene and MacK haven't been as good as they were last year. A bunch of our dmen have yet to play to their capabilities.

The point is that it has been a lazy ass start to the year. Our players though it was going to be easy, and they just aren't giving the consistent effort to get the job done. The coaches need to get off their butts change it up and light a fire under these players. The coaches need to re-evaluate their game plan and think of something fresh because whatever we're doing now

Something to think about. Sacco was nominated for his first season as the Avs HC. The Avs also made the playoffs that year.

Not saying this is a similar situation, but i'm pretty sure the Avs came out of the gate a bit better than this even though the fell apart as the season wound down. I agree with most of your post but this team sucks and I think it's fair to question Roy and Sakic at this point. Not saying he should be fired but this is certainly resembling the Sacco era. Great year 1, followed by a year where we have a 2nd year coach that can't make adjustments to his system to win games.

I'm sincerely hoping that like Sacco we don't continue to have to watch the same thing for 3 more years because no one knows what to change, but so far this year that seems to be the case. Might be time to go a bit more traditional when it comes to D. We lose games when we can't score off the rush and we get trapped in our own zone which is every game anyways. I've just accepted it as a normality that we'll watch the Avs skate in circles in their own zone for 2/3 of each game.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Reading this thread is disturbing, some of the commentary is ridiculous and childish.

I fully agree that, no one likes the way this season has started. Not management, not the players, not the coaches and not the fans. No one likes losing. But it happens, and you've got to change something or it's going to continue to happen.

I can't believe that people are pissed at Roy for calling out Iginla, what is he not prone to criticism? His play this year has been underwhelming at best sans a couple games and he blew and assignment last night. Roy had every right to call him out. He expects more from players like Iginla than players like Guenin that's why he was called out and not Guenin. Guenin's punishment will be nacho time, which is far worse than being singled out in a press conference. And if Iginla can't take it or if he wants out, then fine who cares he is a pansy if he can't take some criticism.

What blows my mind even further is people saying Roy should get fired, are you kidding me? We only won the division last year and he won the Jack Adams, which is 10x better than any of our recent previous coaches did. It's called a rough start, and even if we finish dead last this year, he still deserves to be the coach. If you can't take a rough patch for a team you probably shouldn't watch sports because every team has rough spots, it's how you respond to them that separate the good coaches from the average ones.

The point of the matter right now is there is a lot more going on than coaching issues. We have a lot of players that are severely under-performing their capabilities. I think we know who those players are but just in case you forgot: Landeskog (5pts in 13 games ) not acceptable for the captain, ROR generally been lazy as **** this year. Even Duchene and MacK haven't been as good as they were last year. A bunch of our dmen have yet to play to their capabilities.

The point is that it has been a lazy ass start to the year. Our players though it was going to be easy, and they just aren't giving the consistent effort to get the job done. The coaches need to get off their butts change it up and light a fire under these players. The coaches need to re-evaluate their game plan and think of something fresh because whatever we're doing now

The problem with calling out Iggy on that play shows a complete lack of understanding from our coach as to how a man to man system should be run. Iggy was in great position to cover the point. Guenin was in great position to cover the puck carrier. Perfect example of how players should switch who their man is. but instead Roy believes iggy should still be responsible for that man because well that was his man to start with. That is just stupid defense.

I dont think anyone is calling for him to be fired in this thread. Though i could be wrong. I didnt read all of it.

I was all for putting the blame on the players. But Roy's comment, man, that really shows he doesnt understand how a man to man defense should be run. You cant expect everyone to cover the same man an entire shift. Thats just not realistic. But thats what Roy is saying by blaming Iggy for that play and not Guenin. I really really really hope Roy just said that because he knows Iggy can take the criticism and he did not want to pile onto Guenin even more.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

I watched the game last night right behind Varly and have a few observations:
Firstly it's very apparent that varly only trusts ej and Stuart. It was interesting to see the nonverbal communication between those guys.
Secondly everberg is awesome. Surprisingly fast and constantly rag dolling all over the place
Thirdly Kessler is a total piece of crap. Bumping the goalie after whistles and slashing players after whistles. Total pest
Our second period was a complete joke. Didn't have a sog for about 15 minutes

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

What blows my mind even further is people saying Roy should get fired, are you kidding me? We only won the division last year and he won the Jack Adams, which is 10x better than any of our recent previous coaches did. It's called a rough start, and even if we finish dead last this year, he still deserves to be the coach. If you can't take a rough patch for a team you probably shouldn't watch sports because every team has rough spots, it's how you respond to them that separate the good coaches from the average ones.

Have people on this board been calling for Roy to be fired? I haven't seen it on here, only on twitter.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

I can't believe that people are pissed at Roy for calling out Iginla, what is he not prone to criticism?

The fundamental problem with his callout is this:

In a man-man system, Guenin takes the free man since Iggy is covering someone and Guenin is the closest Avalanche.

In a zone defense system, Guenin takes away Fowler's space to prevent him from reaching the slot because Barrie switched sides with Guenin and Fowler switched with the winger, making him a forward on the right side circle where Guenin was defending.

In a hybrid zone-man-man system, Guenin takes the skating/shooting lane from Fowler and then retreats back into the slot if Fowler passes it off and switches players with Iggy when Fowler retreats to the point or switches players with McGinn when Fowler goes down low. The slot however is Guenin's to defend and Fowler is his man to cover being the only Duck without a corresponding Avalanche.

No matter what style Roy wants to play, Fowler is Guenin's man. But yet Iggy is called out for playing the situation correctly.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Roy needs a new defensive system. The man to man coverage doesn't work. Teams have had a year (they probably required less) to break it down and they have. A team starts cycling and our defensemen (outside of EJ) don't have the speed/defensive awareness to stop it. Once the cycle really gets started the forwards lose their assignments. What ends up happening is that there are five Avs standing around, lost, in front of our goalies. Pay attention the next time the Avs are in the defensive end and you'll see this happen time and time again.

We really need an upgrade on defense, there's just not enough talent there to get the puck out of our zone quickly.

 

[R S]

The problem with calling out Iggy on that play shows a complete lack of understanding from our coach as to how a man to man system should be run. Iggy was in great position to cover the point. Guenin was in great position to cover the puck carrier. Perfect example of how players should switch who their man is. but instead Roy believes iggy should still be responsible for that man because well that was his man to start with. That is just stupid defense.

I dont think anyone is calling for him to be fired in this thread. Though i could be wrong. I didnt read all of it.

I was all for putting the blame on the players. But Roy's comment, man, that really shows he doesnt understand how a man to man defense should be run. You cant expect everyone to cover the same man an entire shift. Thats just not realistic. But thats what Roy is saying by blaming Iggy for that play and not Guenin. I really really really hope Roy just said that because he knows Iggy can take the criticism and he did not want to pile onto Guenin even more.

Pretty much all of this.

No, Roy should not be fired.

Yes, some of the players aren't working their hardest and are drastically under-performing.

But, maybe it's time for Roy to look at himself in the mirror.

- Is his defensive system the thing that's holding this team back? I would say yes based on both the eye test and on what the numbers are telling us. You can't get outshot every game and expect to be an elite team.

- Is he/Sakic good at evaluating talent? Hard to say yes to that considering the offseason moves that were made and the constant playing of guys like Guenin or Cliche.


Throwing a veteran like Iginla is fine, if it's deserved, but in this case I don't think it was. If that is ACTUALLY supposed to be Iginla's guy, then your defensive zone system is total garbage.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I have no idea how Guenin could just stand there and point around. Does he think he is some genius defensive general? If I was in that situation, I would have realized that no one was impeding Fowler and stepped up on him.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Geez Guenin cant do no wrong. At some point you have to abandon system when you got a guy coming in on you and you give a half ass attempt to poke check Guenin and WTF why is that Iginla's man? Iginla is doing the right thing by sticking to his point man it was Guenin throwing up gang signs that was the problem on this goal.

 

[agentblack]

I cant believe this team

I mean even the Sabres can beat the best team in the league coming off a back to back against a tough STL team where we had to battle back for a point...

 

[The Kingslayer]

I cant believe this team

I mean even the Sabres can beat the best team in the league coming off a back to back against a tough STL team where we had to battle back for a point...

They fell in love with their press clippings in the offseason. They started to believe they are the next Blackhawks.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

I cant believe this team

I mean even the Sabres can beat the best team in the league coming off a back to back against a tough STL team where we had to battle back for a point...

Worst to first to worst

 

[JLo217]

I cant believe this team

I mean even the Sabres can beat the best team in the league coming off a back to back against a tough STL team where we had to battle back for a point...

Well if we're gonna struggle may as well do it this year. That draft is looking pretty good.

Pre-season was a huge indicator of how things would play out. To this point i'd say it gave us a good evaluation of atleast how the season would start. I'm not saying tank, but it isn't a bad year to draft in the top 10.

 

[bohlmeister]

There really isn't a good angle of that 3rd goal on NHL.com. I have no idea where Fowler even came from. Iggy is covering Silverberg up the wall, then I think Silverberg skated right out of the zone. So Iggy stays at his point where there are 2 Ducks players uncovered.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

There really isn't a good angle of that 3rd goal on NHL.com. I have no idea where Fowler even came from. Iggy is covering Silverberg up the wall, then I think Silverberg skated right out of the zone. So Iggy stays at his point where there are 2 Ducks players uncovered.

Fowler came in off the point to the halfboards, walked in untouched to the slot besides for a halfassed attempt by Guenin to chop his legs off. Then Varly overcommits hoping the defense would prevent Fowler from getting to his backhand.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Roy needs to learn to adapt rather than steadfastly holding on to what he implemented. It's the same thing with playing his favourites. Some times if something isn't working you have to take an introspective look and analyze if the problem isn't with you. With our personnel I'd like the Avs to work on the zone defense but to abandon the man on man defense. Just get the players on the ice to know what areas they should be defending and move from there. Simplify as much as possible.