Player Discussion Colin White - C/RW - PART 2

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

You may “want” that... but no... it doesn’t mean he is playing well and it doesn’t mean he has played his way out of buyout consideration or into a useful 2-3C, Seattle protection or, positive value on that contract.

Keep digging

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Yeah, I don't know how you can watch these games and complain about White. Since drawing in, he's been a very positive possession player and has been hustling, first on pucks and hard on guys when he's not able to do so. His PDO is also unsustainably low on both ends.

Our 'professional' scouts who we should all trust because they have experience also did this:
View attachment 392874

People make mistakes - no one is infalliable. Experience helps but it's not the be all end all.

While I have no objection to your general point, and recognize this is only a peripheral argument, it should be noted that most of the staff from then is gone.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

He's getting paid $4.0 million this year. Give him crap about not living up to his $6.25 million/season in 2025. Good grief.

Told ya when all else fails it comes back to the money... When he comes back to the money.. That is not on White . That's a criticism of management couched as a criticism of White

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Third at ES. We played a lot on the PK, which he isn't on.

I think if he gets his faceoff numbers up, we'll start to see him kill penalties though. He does a good job disrupting plays in our end.

off/def/neu

last night he had trouble with Danault who is the Habs best FO guy -- DJ put him out there late for that draw against Danault . 1 more win in the 13 he's over 50

vs oilers 02/02

He's been getting better with more reps .. If he can be around 50% over the next 10 games .. it will be solid

 

[TheDebater]

DJ Smith in his interview with Gord Wilson last night before the game said the following:

"Colin White is playing the best hockey he has in two years".

(That might not be word for word but it was basically that statement)

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Haha. You always allude to your expertise and never put your money where your mouth is.

The fact of the matter is that getting hired as an NHL coach is 100% a subjective designation. Being a doctor, an engineer, a geophysicist, a teacher. etc. requires reaching a standard level of competency. That inspires confidence in an expert. In many cases those designations come with a peer reviewed scientific process. Something an NHL coach would have no clue about. Sure, the competition for NHL jobs is more fierce but that doesn't equate to improved quality; it just means there are different hiring criteria.

And for a guy with a couple of degrees who hints at having a PhD., you'd think that you would not misplace commas twice in a row. Might want to work on that if you ever want to be taken seriously. I mean, it's too late for that here but in other walks of life you might want to learn basic grammar and syntax.

Elmer Phd
Explains the smartest person in the room shtick

 

[umma gumma]

Told ya when all else fails it comes back to the money... When he comes back to the money.. That is not on White . That's a criticism of management couched as a criticism of White

Its funny eh? How some posters complain about the amount Colin White earns and then get up in arms when others complain about management, when they're the ones that offered him the contract.

 

[Sweatred]

but defending DJ Smith who was hired as Sens coach with zero NHL head coaching experience and only 3 years of CHL head coaching experience is beyond Alanis Morissette's favourite song.It's hard to fathom mental gymnastics like this.

I think its fair to say that DJ Smith has way more combined coaching experience, player development experience, qualification, and certification than anyone on this board. In no world is it "ironic" to defend his plan over the regular posters here. I think its "ironic" that so many here think they are better at developing players like White than he would be.

 

[Sweatred]

DJ Smith in his interview with Gord Wilson last night before the game said the following:

"Colin White is playing the best hockey he has in two years".

I think everyone would agree with that ... his game was pretty bad last year and there are signs of improvement.

 

[Wondercarrot]

I think everyone would agree with that ... his game was pretty bad last year and there are signs of improvement.

There were signs of improvement when he came back last year to end the season when he was finally healthy. He had 7pts in 7 games and looked good.

 

[swiftwin]

Our 'professional' scouts who we should all trust because they have experience also did this:
View attachment 392874

People make mistakes - no one is infalliable. Experience helps but it's not the be all end all.

You mean two drafts where we only had one 1st round pick and one 2nd round pick over those two years?!?!

Can't draft a Mark Stone, or Mike Hoffman late in the draft every year.

If this is what a "bad" draft looks like, I'd say our scouts are doing a pretty good job.

 

[R2010]

All teams have bad draft years. And starting with picks 40 and 70? Good luck

From 2012-2014 we drafted 1 legitimate top 9 fwd or top 6 dman (C. Ceci). One out of nineteen picks. If you have limited picks then you gotta hit a couple times but 1/19 just isn't good enough. That's why we're in our current situation the last five years outside of asset management there was poor drafting.

In 2014, like Point, Montour, Donato, Dvorak, Wallmart, Toews, Arvidsson, Heinen, Foegele were all there when we were picking at various points and we just didn't identify them. So did other teams. That's fine. But clearly it's not the case like there were no good players on the board - we just either didn't identify the right ones or missed the obvious ones (Brayden Point had 90 points in the WHL and was pick 79 in 2014...). It's a bit of a guessing game but clearly some teams did a much better job of seeing the potential that year then we did (Englund?, Gendron?, Eiserman?). I mean there were players there with really solid numbers and we went obscure in all three of our first picks.

In 2013, there were clearly good players available at 17 including who we were rumored to like (Mantha - guess we didn't though) but also at 78. After that I think we did okay. But like you can't go two drafts in a row where you get no legitimate top 9 forwards or top 6 d-men without questions about scouting. To get only one out of three drafts is bad.

 

[R2010]

You mean two drafts where we only had one 1st round pick and one 2nd round pick over those two years?!?!

Can't draft a Mark Stone, or Mike Hoffman late in the draft every year.

If this is what a "bad" draft looks like, I'd say our scouts are doing a pretty good job.

From 2012-2014 we drafted 1 legitimate top 9 fwd or top 6 dman (C. Ceci). One out of nineteen picks.

That's bad. Filter by best PPG in your excel sheet for drafting and you woulda done better than that staff.

 

[supsens]

From 2012-2014 we drafted 1 legitimate top 9 fwd or top 6 dman (C. Ceci). One out of nineteen picks.

That's bad. Filter by best PPG in your excel sheet for drafting and you woulda done better than that staff.

Most the time 50% of draft picks never play 1 game and only 20 of the first rounders play more than 200 games
With no first rounder in one of those years and the guys that played more than 200 games...well they did ok
The idea that every team is drafting top players every year is way off base.

 

[supsens]

Most the time 50% of draft picks never play 1 game and only 20 of the first rounders play more than 200 games
With no first rounder in one of those years and the guys that played more than 200 games...well they did ok
The idea that every team is drafting top players every year is way off base.

It wasn’t great drafting or anything but it is normal for this to happen

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Most the time 50% of draft picks never play 1 game and only 20 of the first rounders play more than 200 games
With no first rounder in one of those years and the guys that played more than 200 games...well they did ok
The idea that every team is drafting top players every year is way off base.

What % of the time do you think that "most" represents?

 

[supsens]

What % of the time do you think that "most" represents?

2012 NHL draft
No. 1 pick: Nail Yakupov, Edmonton
Number of players drafted: 211
Total drafted players to play in NHL: 108 (51.2 percent)
First-round picks to play in NHL: 30/30
First-round picks to play 200-plus NHL games: 23/30

2013 NHL draft
No. 1 pick: Nathan MacKinnon, Colorado
Number of players drafted: 211
Total drafted players to play in NHL: 102 (48.3 percent)
First-round picks to play in NHL: 30/30
First-round picks to play 200-plus NHL games: 20/30

2014 NHL draft
No. 1 pick: Aaron Ekblad, Florida
Number of players drafted: 210
Total drafted players to play in NHL: 90 (42.9 percent)
First-round picks to play in NHL: 29/30
First-round picks to play 200-plus NHL games: 22/30

A 10-year snapshot of the NHL draft from 2010 to 2019

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

2012 NHL draft
No. 1 pick: Nail Yakupov, Edmonton
Number of players drafted: 211
Total drafted players to play in NHL: 108 (51.2 percent)
First-round picks to play in NHL: 30/30
First-round picks to play 200-plus NHL games: 23/30

No. 1 pick: Nathan MacKinnon, Colorado
Number of players drafted: 211
Total drafted players to play in NHL: 102 (48.3 percent)
First-round picks to play in NHL: 30/30
First-round picks to play 200-plus NHL games: 20/30

2014 NHL draft
No. 1 pick: Aaron Ekblad, Florida
Number of players drafted: 210
Total drafted players to play in NHL: 90 (42.9 percent)
First-round picks to play in NHL: 29/30
First-round picks to play 200-plus NHL games: 22/30

A 10-year snapshot of the NHL draft from 2010 to 2019

so 99% of the time then?

 

[Xspyrit]

Our 'professional' scouts who we should all trust because they have experience also did this:
View attachment 392874

People make mistakes - no one is infalliable. Experience helps but it's not the be all end all.

Every team has drafts that don't pan out. 2 years is a very small window to evaluate but there's things to consider

2013 was great at the top but the back end of the first wasn't great. As much as Lazar was a disappointment, he's not even a bad pick at 17. In the other 13 guys selected in the first, I see Mantha, Burakovsky and Theodore that would have been clearly better. Maybe Hartman too. Same story in the 2nd round, not many worthy picks.

2014 wasn't a good draft... MDC, Virtanen, Bennett, Fleury in the top-7? There was some gems to find but it was not an easy task here. That's also a factor why the Sens decided to trade their first round pick that year to get 26 y/o first liner Bobby Ryan, a guy that scored 283 pts for Ottawa.

hardly the player to go on a never ending crusade against

Is there any player that anybody should have that kind of nasty obssesion against? Only explanation I see is something personal.

 

[R2010]

2012 NHL draft
No. 1 pick: Nail Yakupov, Edmonton
Number of players drafted: 211
Total drafted players to play in NHL: 108 (51.2 percent)
First-round picks to play in NHL: 30/30
First-round picks to play 200-plus NHL games: 23/30

2013 NHL draft
No. 1 pick: Nathan MacKinnon, Colorado
Number of players drafted: 211
Total drafted players to play in NHL: 102 (48.3 percent)
First-round picks to play in NHL: 30/30
First-round picks to play 200-plus NHL games: 20/30

2014 NHL draft
No. 1 pick: Aaron Ekblad, Florida
Number of players drafted: 210
Total drafted players to play in NHL: 90 (42.9 percent)
First-round picks to play in NHL: 29/30
First-round picks to play 200-plus NHL games: 22/30

A 10-year snapshot of the NHL draft from 2010 to 2019

So Non 1st rounders with 1 game played per year (up to 2020).
2012: 43%
2013: 40%
2014: 34%

Sens non-1st round total over that period = 29%
2012: 1/6 = 17%
2013: 3/6 = 50%
2014: 1/5 = 20%

This includes:
Englund: 33 games
Hogberg: 33 games
Lindberg: 6 games
Harpur: 103 games
Driedger: 19 games

Like I said - there was nothing good about our drafting from 2012-2014. This also includes that our two 1sts (Ceci/Lazar) were immediately followed by high end skill players (Hertl / Teravainen / Mantha).

 

[R2010]

So Non 1st rounders with 1 game played per year (up to 2020).
2012: 43%
2013: 40%
2014: 34%

Sens non-1st round total over that period = 29%
2012: 1/6 = 17%
2013: 3/6 = 50%
2014: 1/5 = 20%

This includes:
Englund: 33 games
Hogberg: 33 games
Lindberg: 6 games
Harpur: 103 games
Driedger: 19 games

Like I said - there was nothing good about our drafting from 2012-2014. This also includes that our two 1sts (Ceci/Lazar) were immediately followed by high end skill players (Hertl / Teravainen / Mantha).

Sens non-1sts with games played and notable did not make its in brackets.
2008: 5 out of 6 = 83%
2009: 4 out of 8 = 50%
2010: 2 out of 4 = 50% (DNP: Culek)
2011: 5 out of 7 = 71%

2012: 1 out of 6 = 17% (DNP: Wikstrand)
2013: 3 out of 6 = 50%
2014: 1 out of 5 = 20% (DNP: Perron)

2015: 4 out of 6 = 67% (DNP: Gagne)
2016: 1 out of 4 = 25% (DNP: Dahlen)
2017: 2 out of 4 = 50%

 

[TheDebater]

This is becoming a recurring theme but Colin White played his best game of the year against the Canadiens this afternoon.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

This is becoming a recurring theme but Colin White played his best game of the year against the Canadiens this afternoon.

Was our best forward.

 

[DJB]

White's confidence seems to be growing. Also seems to be a little more jump in his step.

Starting to look the part of a decent 4th line C. I wish he would actually hit someone but baby steps I guess.

 

[h2]

White's confidence seems to be growing. Also seems to be a little more jump in his step.

Starting to look the part of a decent 4th line C. I wish he would actually hit someone but baby steps I guess.

I wasn't a fan of White just absorbing jabs to the face from Wheeler just now. It drew a penalty which was surprising but I would have liked to see him punch Wheeler in the face and knock his teeth out in retaliation. I'm starting to get concerned about this team not standing up for themselves, especially after the last Stutzle-Montreal encounter. Austin Watson/Josh Brown/Michael Haley are not deterrents.

Intensity issues aside, I do like White's jump and think he's looking good. Looks like a tweener 2nd/3rd liner to me so far which is probably worth the contract.