Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Kings: The 1am poop edition

[Ogrezilla]

I agree with Ogre. During one of those games, Sully should have started the second first to send a message, or even take one of the weak links off the first one.

part of the issue is that the typical solution would be to play 2D. But the rest of our D is pretty terrible on the powerplay

 

[Tom Hanks]

What? He gave up 4 to the Ducks, but the three games prior to that were 1 GAA, a shutout, and 2 GAA. He gave up 7 goals combined in the 7 games before the Ducks.

Losing to the Kings actually changes the past. That’s how good they are.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Maybe it’s the goaltending? Wouldn’t it be nice if our goalies could stop 1-2-3 of these 2-1 rushes or breakaways...

I mean, he did stop it yesterday. But Letang and Kessel both gave up on the play so he got a second chance.

Earlier in the year we weren't getting the big saves from Murray that we typically expect. But lately it's just absurd to blame goaltending for anything honestly

Also, I just flat out refuse to blame goalies for breakaways. At worst they are a small part of the problem. Somebody else f***ed up way worse than the goalie to allow the breakaway in the first place.

 

[EightyOne]

Breakaways are like 50/50 chance to stop. Not goalie fault everyone on the ice f***ed him lol.

 

[Icarium]

Maybe it’s the goaltending? Wouldn’t it be nice if our goalies could stop 1-2-3 of these 2-1 rushes or breakaways...

You mean like the Florida game when Murray stopped like five of those?

 

[Andy99]

I mean, he did stop it yesterday. But Letang and Kessel both gave up on the play so he got a second chance.

Earlier in the year we weren't getting the big saves from Murray that we typically expect. But lately it's just absurd to blame goaltending for anything honestly

Also, I just flat out refuse to blame goalies for breakaways. At worst they are a small part of the problem. Somebody else ****ed up way worse than the goalie to allow the breakaway in the first place.

True, but people are asking why we’ve given up so many shorties this year in general...last night’s shortie was different but for the most part, we’ve had the same TOs on the blue line for many years and the sloppy players are still there...our goaltending was trash until mid-December, coinciding with most of the shorties, and the last two games haven’t been great either...and surprise, surprise that that’s when see the short handed goals...it’s not a chicken-egg situation but they are related imo

 

[Ogrezilla]

True, but people are asking why we’ve given up so many shorties this year in general...last night’s shortie was different but for the most part, we’ve had the same TOs on the blue line for many years and the sloppy players are still there...our goaltending was trash until mid-December, coinciding with most of the shorties, and the last two games haven’t been great either...and surprise, surprise that that’s when see the short handed goals...it’s not a chicken-egg situation but they are related imo

like I said, for the bulk of this year we've definitely gotten bailed out less than previous years. Though I would actually stretch that back to last year too, which is the year we didn't have the issue with shorties. Also the year Letang made way more mistakes. Honestly, last year's results are the ones that don't make sense to me

 

[Ugene Magic]

The first goal: Carter actually got the puck along the boards and not off Geno, while he didn't disrupt Carter at all trying for the puck or lifting his stick. All Pettersson had left was taking a penalty.

The second goal: is in off a bounce off the guy in front. Kessel made a great play defecting away a great cross feed had it got through, and just give LA. a nod for making that into something. The shot wasn't even on net and bounced off of Iafallo high.

The third goal: Kopitar SHG is the dagger, and Letang had a mishap. Letang's spinorama backhand at the blueline picked off by Carter, and he got it to Kopitar. It was all good, De Smith made a great save on Kopitar and the puck followed him. I can't blame Kessel there, he followed the play which was the puck to Kopitar in front, and Letang took himself out of the play sliding to no avail.

Looking at that to that point, LA. earned this win looking closer.

Mike Sullivan had it right in the post game stating that goal was the difference. Letang, no more spinorammas please with guys that close without lifting it.

He served it up on a platter dressed with cheese to go with the whine after.

 

[Ugene Magic]

part of the issue is that the typical solution would be to play 2D. But the rest of our D is pretty terrible on the powerplay

Even just the safe play and retreat is okay. I think you'd get that from Pettersson or Riikola. When you have free flowing Letang and a bunch of forwards out there a stable defensive guy isn't terrible.

 

[Ugene Magic]

like I said, for the bulk of this year we've definitely gotten bailed out less than previous years. Though I would actually stretch that back to last year too, which is the year we didn't have the issue with shorties. Also the year Letang made way more mistakes. Honestly, last year's results are the ones that don't make sense to me

Last year makes sense because they didn't have the depth back on defense, that 3rd pair was just as bad at turning the puck over in their own zone to start off many turnovers ensuing after that. They got a lot less free breakouts last year from not having clean decisions being made, and fear of being hit than making the right play.

 

[Icarium]

The first goal: Carter actually got the puck along the boards and not off Geno, while he didn't disrupt Carter at all trying for the puck or lifting his stick. All Pettersson had left was taking a penalty.

I think you mean Grant, not Geno. Geno was on the bench at that point.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Last year makes sense because they didn't have the depth back on defense, that 3rd pair was just as bad at turning the puck over in their own zone to start off many turnovers ensuing after that. They got a lot less free breakouts last year from not having clean decisions being made, and fear of being hit than making the right play.

I was talking about the powerplay and giving up shorties.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I think you mean Grant, not Geno. Geno was on the bench at that point.

Sorry, you're right, I never looked beyond where the initial contact was, and he looked like Geno there.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I was talking about the powerplay and giving up shorties.

Gotcha.

I'm at a loss to that affect, then, too.

 

[ronduguayshair]

I've given up on losing sleep over dumb drop passes and hope passes on the powerplay at the offensive blue line. Our powerplay is great but has this major weakness. You just hope they don't do it come playoff time.

Malkin and Letang are both low IQ players who rely on their offensive skill to be successful. They won't and can't change. It is what it is.

The only thing you could do is substitute Shultz in there instead of Letang and half your problem is solved. Your zone entries would suffer though. Plus it isn't really fair to Letang who has otherwise been stellar.

 

[Turin]

Calling Malkin and Letang low IQ players is so f***ing low IQ. Also suggesting for a second to take Letang off PP1 is just as dumb.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I've given up on losing sleep over dumb drop passes and hope passes on the powerplay at the offensive blue line. Our powerplay is great but has this major weakness. You just hope they don't do it come playoff time.

Malkin and Letang are both low IQ players who rely on their offensive skill to be successful. They won't and can't change. It is what it is.

No. Especially Malkin. Are you kidding? They are both high risk/high reward players (along with Kessel) who collectively make too many risky plays especially because Malkin & Kessel are poor defensive forwards who are crappy at defending rushes going the the other way.

Swapping Kessel for Schultz would certainly help although I'd really like to see Schultz on PP2. Another option is to maybe switch Sid and Geno for a little bit; let Geno play down low where he can hurt us less and still playmake. Meanwhile Sid can play up high and add greater defensive responsibility.

 

[EightyOne]

Yeah low iq? No. Risky? Yes. Does it always pay off? No. Is it glorious when it does? Yes.

 

[ronduguayshair]

So instead of saying those guys are low IQ players we say they are "high risk". That's some amazing legitmizing. Fair enough. I agree to disagree.

 

[Icarium]

Oh, good, one loss all it took to get back to "low IQ players". Amazing how we have done so much with such morons on the roster, am I right?

 

[ronduguayshair]

Oh, good, one loss all it took to get back to "low IQ players". Amazing how we have done so much with such morons on the roster, am I right?

I don't operate in the short term, I operate in the long term. They done this dumb or I guess "high risk" stuff their whole career. It is what it is. It is not going to change. You just weigh the positives they bring which for the most part out weight the negatives.

You can say a player is dumb or sucks at defense and still enjoy watching the other aspects of their game.

 

[ChaosAgent]

So instead of saying those guys are low IQ players we say they are "high risk". That's some amazing legitmizing. Fair enough. I agree to disagree.

High Risk plays result in higher expected goals for both your team and the other team. If the players are skilled enough, on average it should increase your own team's expected goals more than the other team's - but the other team's will still go up. Looking at the track record of the Penguins powerplay, including #71 and #58 over the last...like, 8 years, it's pretty clear that it has paid off. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Making the safe play every single time is how you run out a team of Rob Scuderis panicking and throwing the puck up the boards aimlessly. I'm not interested in being that team. We basically became that team in 2017 and won an amazing (and incredibly fluky) Cup that way, but that is not replicable.

 

[Turin]

I don't operate in the short term, I operate in the long term. They done this dumb or I guess "high risk" stuff their whole career. It is what it is. It is not going to change. You just weigh the positives they bring which for the most part out weight the negatives.

You can say a player is dumb or sucks at defense and still enjoy watching the other aspects of their game.

Low IQ suggests that they are inadequate at processing the game. The 2nd best center of a generation processes the game on a much higher level than just about everyone.

 

[superstar1797]

I was at the game last night and there were a few things that continuously happened that drove me crazy.

It seems like a lot of the talented guys have bad habits of trying the fun effortless plays and tricks that you do in practice and while screwing around with the guys during games.

- Letang is so poor at clearing the puck out of the D zone... I counted 4 attempts where he softly slid the puck up the middle of the ice where it was kept in by LA's D.
- Geno and Phil with their soft no look passes... They are both super talented but they both too often try and finesse the cute plays.

 

[EightyOne]

I don't operate in the short term, I operate in the long term. They done this dumb or I guess "high risk" stuff their whole career. It is what it is. It is not going to change. You just weigh the positives they bring which for the most part out weight the negatives.

You can say a player is dumb or sucks at defense and still enjoy watching the other aspects of their game.

They'd be dumb if they didn't understand the concept of a turnover.

Like. Literally didn't understand why that's bad. Or what it meant.

They know it's bad. But they take the risk to try for something greater than safe and predictable.

The ONLY stupid thing in 15 years they've done was Letang's breakaway line change last playoffs.