Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Flyers - HOCKEY IS BACK!

[KIRK]

Well after 2 shifts yesterday he was already putting Glass on Malkin's LW..

Yeah, but he kept Tangradi there late in the third.

 

[KIRK]

Sullivan turned out to be a great addition to the PP. Strange how he never really clicked on the Malkin or Crosby lines.

Why is that strange? He was a runt on lines (Geno-Neal and Sid-Dupuis) where size was needed.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Aside from the thing that it was, I concur . . .

He can pass the puck to them. That's one thing he can do as opposed to zero.

 

[KIRK]

He can pass the puck to them. That's one thing he can do as opposed to zero.

Sure, he could pass the puck to them. But, what they really need-- where they really thrived-- is when someone led the forecheck and ate a healthy bit of the line's defensive responsibilities.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Sure, he could pass the puck to them. But, what they really need-- where they really thrived-- is when someone led the forecheck and ate a healthy bit of the line's defensive responsibilities.

Ya I see. Well we're fresh out of those. Can I interest anyone in a fresh Tangradi or Jeffrey? The Bennetts aren't ready yet but if I take your name I can call you when they're available.

 

[KIRK]

Ya I see. Well we're fresh out of those. Can I interest anyone in a fresh Tangradi or Jeffrey? The Bennetts aren't ready yet but if I take your name I can call you when they're available.

Hey, I don't think that Tangradi is going to prove to be an answer when as March and April come (I have more confidence in Despres' learning curve). BUT, I get the idea of trying these guys now.

Getting Sid and impact winger is priority number one. It's an absolute must for the deadline.

Depending upon how the next 1-2 months play out, getting a L2 LW from outside the organization and upgrading versus adding insurance to the defense may be issues. Best to find out NOW how much of an issue and the priority.

 

[zhenyas most fly rep]

I'm not surprised at all. Bylsma only really sees Geno as a guy to rely upon when Sid isn't around. Plus, there are two theories, I think, on Geno:

1. You spot him as an offensive workhorse and use him as exclusively as possible in that role. That's Bylsma's approach.

2. Geno's best game comes where the offense flows from playing great two way hockey. That was the Dave King and Paul Maurice approach in the KHL, and I think it also is what Therrien had embraced by the end.

When Bylsma got Geno, the 'after taste' of Therrien's emphasis on defense still was there. It wasn't until after the Pens won the cup where, as with several other players, Bylsma beat Geno's defensive game out of him.

I mean, even last year, when he was doing all that incredible offensive stuff, the defensive game was fair. He lost Kunitz. He got Tangradi, who sort of struggled yesterday in terms of knowing when to go defense. And, his line looked better defensively than it did most of the time with Kunitz there.

Actually, I think Staal's defensive game going downhill (relatively speaking, it was still above average) since the cup run, is even a better case.
Part of it is, without a doubt, due to Bylsma's lack of rigor with it's players.

 

[KIRK]

Actually, I think Staal's defensive game going downhill (relatively speaking, it was still above average) since the cup run, is even a better case.
Part of it is, without a doubt, due to Bylsma's lack of rigor with it's players.

Well, Staal got a taste of playing in more offensive situations, and nobody reeled him in. In this regard, the example is good and the 'lack of rigor' comment is spot on.

 

[JQR]

I'm confident that Duper will be just fine as Crosby's RW.

 

[KIRK]

I'm confident that Duper will be just fine as Crosby's RW.

Not when the playoffs come. Not if Kunitz is the LW. Two third wheels won't cut it and more than Geno and Neal without a legit third wheel will.

 

[JQR]

Not when the playoffs come. Not if Kunitz is the LW. Two third wheels won't cut it and more than Geno and Neal without a legit third wheel will.

Oh right playoffs... we still have plenty of time before the playof... ****, it's almost playoff time...

 

[KIRK]

Oh right playoffs... we still have plenty of time before the playof... ****, it's almost playoff time...

Excuse me. You get called out, so you change the standard. You said Dupuis is fine on Sid's RW. Not fine for now, not fine for the regular season, just fine. I pointed out why he's not fine, and you said 'well, it's not the playoffs yet'.

BFD, everyone here things Kunitz and Dupuis are fine with Sid for the regular season. What we've been debating in this and other threads is beyond the regular season. Dupuis is fine with Sid right now . . . big ******* revelation.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Oh right playoffs... we still have plenty of time before the playof... ****, it's almost playoff time...

It took time for Hossa and Crosby to gel...

 

[JQR]

Excuse me. You get called out, so you change the standard. You said Dupuis is fine on Sid's RW. Not fine for now, not fine for the regular season, just fine. I pointed out why he's not fine, and you said 'well, it's not the playoffs yet'.

BFD, everyone here things Kunitz and Dupuis are fine with Sid for the regular season. What we've been debating in this and other threads is beyond the regular season. Dupuis is fine with Sid right now . . . big ******* revelation.

I was agreeing with you. I hadn't considered that it's already almost February and we have to get the gears turning for these transactions for the playoffs. Apologies if it came across as something different.

 

[KIRK]

I was agreeing with you. I hadn't considered that it's already almost February and we have to get the gears turning for these transactions for the playoffs. Apologies if it came across as something different.

My bad. It did come across differently. Lots of people have been saying in the last week that Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis will be nice for the playoffs and getting Sid a winger isn't the top priority.

 

[KIRK]

It took time for Hossa and Crosby to gel...

I'm not sure they ever did. Two elite players are going to product together. BUT, IMHO, I think Sid would gel more naturally with a guy like Perry. Heck, he might even look as good with a guy like Iginla as he looked in the 2008 playoffs.

My dream remains . . .

Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla
Kulemin-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis
Glass-Vitale-Kennedy

And then, as quickly as it forms, it is shattered, not by the thought that Shero lacks the assets, cap space, or even necessarily the will to make it happen (or by the unlikelihood even that Iginla would be moved), but by the cold and harsh truth that Craig Adams will NEVER sit on the bench until the day comes that someone pries the Pens lineup card from Dan Bylsma's hand.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

I'm not sure they ever did. Two elite players are going to product together. BUT, IMHO, I think Sid would gel more naturally with a guy like Perry. Heck, he might even look as good with a guy like Iginla as he looked in the 2008 playoffs.

My dream remains . . .

Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla
Kulemin-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis
Glass-Vitale-Kennedy

And then, as quickly as it forms, it is shattered, not by the thought that Shero lacks the assets, cap space, or even necessarily the will to make it happen (or by the unlikelihood even that Iginla would be moved), but by the cold and harsh truth that Craig Adams will NEVER sit on the bench until the day comes that someone pries the Pens lineup card from Dan Bylsma's hand.

Did you see the game yesterday? Adams was awesome and a big reason for the W. I've got no problem with him finishing up his contract here as the 12th forward with minimal 5 on 5 play and a lot of pk work.

 

[mpp9]

Our 4th line becomes far less relevant if we're rolling our top 9 accordingly. If TK keeps up his play, I'd bump Duper down with Glass and Adams (we all know he'll be in the lineup) and have them be another go-to line after Sid/Geno get double shifted and Sutter moves up.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I'm not sure they ever did. Two elite players are going to product together. BUT, IMHO, I think Sid would gel more naturally with a guy like Perry. Heck, he might even look as good with a guy like Iginla as he looked in the 2008 playoffs.

Really? I think Hossa is the only guy Crosby ever truly did have chemistry with. People talk about a guy like Kunitz, but chemistry doesn't equal "playing with each other for years." When Hossa was here it was the only time Crosby had someone to give and go with, i.e. it was the only time Crosby played with someone that could use his finesse game to the its fullest extent. I don't think that just because Crosby has a "gritty star" look to his game doesn't mean those same players are who he's best with. Of course, it's all about creating space. If he played with Perry or Hossa I don't think you'd see a world of difference.

 

[KIRK]

Our 4th line becomes far less relevant if we're rolling our top 9 accordingly. If TK keeps up his play, I'd bump Duper down with Glass and Adams (we all know he'll be in the lineup) and have them be another go-to line after Sid/Geno get double shifted and Sutter moves up.

Get real. Bylsma would never deprive Adams a shift in the name of double shifting Geno, not even with five minutes left in a game where the Pens are trailing by one.

Did you see the game yesterday? Adams was awesome and a big reason for the W. I've got no problem with him finishing up his contract here as the 12th forward with minimal 5 on 5 play and a lot of pk work.

Yes, I was very impressed how Adams work yesterday against an offensively sloppy Philly team will translate in the playoffs at this point in his career.

 

[KIRK]

Really? I think Hossa is the only guy Crosby ever truly did have chemistry with. People talk about a guy like Kunitz, but chemistry doesn't equal "playing with each other for years." When Hossa was here it was the only time Crosby had someone to give and go with, i.e. it was the only time Crosby played with someone that could use his finesse game to the its fullest extent. I don't think that just because Crosby has a "gritty star" look to his game doesn't mean those same players are who he's best with. Of course, it's all about creating space. If he played with Perry or Hossa I don't think you'd see a world of difference.

I thought Sid was great with Hossa. I just didn't see the natural chemistry. They have two naturally different playing styles. Doesn't mean that they didn't gel to a degree or that they weren't great together.

EDIT: A world of difference? No. A slightly pronounced difference? I do think so here.

 

[Zen Arcade]

I also want to say, I haven't seen someone win a faceoff in a Pens uniform so clean that the puck actually gets past the defensemen, but Sutter did it twice yesterday.

Mike Zigomanis won a faceoff so cleanly that it got by the defensemen and past Sabourin for an own goal.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

Get real. Bylsma would never deprive Adams a shift in the name of double shifting Geno, not even with five minutes left in a game where the Pens are trailing by one.



Yes, I was very impressed how Adams work yesterday against an offensively sloppy Philly team will translate in the playoffs at this point in his career.

whatever you say nostradamus

 

[Bengui]

Mike Zigomanis won a faceoff so cleanly that it got by the defensemen and past Sabourin for an own goal.

Yeah Zigomanis came to my mind as well, and not just because of that incident.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Yeah Zigomanis came to my mind as well, and not just because of that incident.

Zigomanis is a terrific face off man, for sure. Vitale is no slouch is either, which is part of why I don't want him scratched.