Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens get back on track thanks to Dumo & Marino!

[Tasty Biscuits]

That's great, and I'm happy they won. But don't gloss over what actually led to the win and how nothing changed on the defensive end.

Dude just take the L, it's not a big deal.

 

[SouthGeorge]

You're forgetting that pretty much every team collapses. So your forwards are always 3-on-5 down low and facing the wrong way with momentum against them if something goes wrong.

If your defencemen aren't pinching you're looking at almost constant 3-on-2s or worse the other way. It only takes 1 bad pass or 1 blocked shot.

First off, not so with F3 high. F1 with the puck. F2 with support wherever that may be around the boards, behind, to the side, etc. Then F3 high center. Basically like a triangle and they all rotate. So if F3 goes down to help F1 in the left corner then F2 would rotate high.

Secondly, yinz act like when I say I want defensive d. That they can never pass, shoot, pinch, etc. If it's 3 on 5 down low then pass it to the d. The worst NHL player in the league was probably a stud in every league he played in. Every NHL player can pass a puck and throw a decent shot on net.

 

[Oahiz]

First off, not so with F3 high. F1 with the puck. F2 with support wherever that may be around the boards, behind, to the side, etc. Then F3 high center. Basically like a triangle and they all rotate. So if F3 goes down to help F1 in the left corner then F2 would rotate high.

Secondly, yinz act like when I say I want defensive d. That they can never pass, shoot, pinch, etc. If it's 3 on 5 down low then pass it to the d. The worst NHL player in the league was probably a stud in every league he played in. Every NHL player can pass a puck and throw a decent shot on net.

I honestly don't know enough to really contribute to the overarching argument...but the other team has players that were studs in every other league they played in and I've watched enough of Orpik and Scuderi to know that a "decent shot on net" at this level isn't a universal talent.

 

[Beauner]

First off, not so with F3 high. F1 with the puck. F2 with support wherever that may be around the boards, behind, to the side, etc. Then F3 high center. Basically like a triangle and they all rotate. So if F3 goes down to help F1 in the left corner then F2 would rotate high.

Secondly, yinz act like when I say I want defensive d. That they can never pass, shoot, pinch, etc. If it's 3 on 5 down low then pass it to the d. The worst NHL player in the league was probably a stud in every league he played in. Every NHL player can pass a puck and throw a decent shot on net.

Once again you're naming the simplist of hockey concepts. This is a thing that you're taught in pee-wees.

 

[RSPens]

Probably not the thread for it, but since people are discussing Schultz...what if his slump continues, goes into free agency and no GM is willing to give him the big payout that he may want. If he still wants to play in the NHL and is willing to do it on a lesser contract, does JR bring him back, do the Pens even want him back? I would argue that if Schultz was on the 3rd pair, making 3rd pair money, it wouldn't be an issue for the Pens.

 

[Watson Bugsy]

finally! I've found someone thats old enough to remember the Pittsburgh knights of the mahl. welcome abord!

And old enough to remember when Jim Rutherford was our goalie !!

 

[SouthGeorge]

Once again you're naming the simplist of hockey concepts. This is a thing that you're taught in pee-wees.

Exactly and we can't even do it. Constantly caught with 3 forwards low. Then defensemen pinching. One d back. It's a mess.

 

[Beauner]

Exactly and we can't even do it. Constantly caught with 3 forwards low. Then defensemen pinching. One d back. It's a mess.

not really? If 3 F are low then the D aren't pinching. That's not why odd man rushes are occuring against us

 

[ChaosAgent]

Probably not the thread for it, but since people are discussing Schultz...what if his slump continues, goes into free agency and no GM is willing to give him the big payout that he may want. If he still wants to play in the NHL and is willing to do it on a lesser contract, does JR bring him back, do the Pens even want him back? I would argue that if Schultz was on the 3rd pair, making 3rd pair money, it wouldn't be an issue for the Pens.

(Dr. Evil voice) One MEALLION DOLLARS (/Dr. Evil voice)

 

[SouthGeorge]

not really? If 3 F are low then the D aren't pinching. That's not why odd man rushes are occuring against us

Oh the D is pinching... Just watch Dumo on the 2nd goal when we were already up 1. Relying on a lot of lucky bounces. Dumo comes flying in. Letang barely keeps it in. Two close passes. Then a Sheary shot that goes off a skate or something in. Took 4-5 lucky plays in a row to score on a pinch that could have resulted in odd man rush the other way in a game we were already winning. Makes no sense to me. I don't see it being a winning formula this post season.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The thing is, if Schultz’s price was Ruhwedel-cheap, Schultz would probably go to Europe and make more.

 

[WayneSid9987]

This site gives Pettersson a dumb amount of shit because he hasn't been as amazing as what he was last year. It's just weird to me, why are people so willing to throw away a young top-4 D for struggling (relative to what he did last year) in his 2nd pro season? Pettersson is only 23, Dumoulin wasn't even a regular in the NHL until he was 24.

Pettersson is going to be just fine.

He is terribad right now from his goal line to the red line. Only thing he's sorta ok at is little dish offs at the top of the OZ and he is willing to shot a puck/one timers being one of his fave things to do.

I have no doubt he'll get better and this is a skinny rake of a guy trying to keep his head above water atm, like i said, from his goal line to the red.
He's quite capable of getting stronger, bulkier and simply making better/quicker decisions with the puck.
This is definitely his worst showing at actual defending but i know theres a better D-man there.

Probably not the thread for it, but since people are discussing Schultz...what if his slump continues, goes into free agency and no GM is willing to give him the big payout that he may want. If he still wants to play in the NHL and is willing to do it on a lesser contract, does JR bring him back, do the Pens even want him back? I would argue that if Schultz was on the 3rd pair, making 3rd pair money, it wouldn't be an issue for the Pens.

Naw. I'd much rather just have Riiko take up his job.
Next season roll with Letang, Riiko/Marino on PP's.

I'd like to transform JJ's money into a Scandella if i could.

 

[66-30-33]

17 games remaining and I hope Zucker gets 10 more goals for another 30 goal season. So far he has 6 goals in 11 games! it will be close. Also i'd like to see him get tried on the PK with his speed.

 

[RSPens]

Naw. I'd much rather just have Riiko take up his job.
Next season roll with Letang, Riiko/Marino on PP's.

I'd like to transform JJ's money into a Scandella if i could.

I don't mind your thinking, however Riikola and Schultz don't play the same side. Losing Schultz doesn't give Riikola more ice time, it gives Ruh more ice time. Also even if Riikola and Schultz played the same side, Sully is more likely to just call up Trotman than he is to give Riikola the chance. As of now there is no indication that the Pens are going to somehow get rid of JJ. So Riikola is going to be in the same boat next year as he is this season. So with all that said, I'd much rather have JJ - Schultz (3rd pair money). Than be stuck with JJ- Ruh or JJ - Trotman.

 

[USMC607]

Marino's contract renewal better be 8yrs for term.

Foreal.... put a ball and chain on that kids ankle.

 

[LOGiK]

Does Riikola still get that NHL paycheck being a scratch?
Do you have to physically -play- in the game to get the NHL monies?

I figured he does, but just curious.


::::
ADD:

Actually I just checked his contract, he gets that money no matter if he plays ahl / nhl.

 

[Kiith Nabaal]

It may not feel like it, but the Penguins are currently 7th in GA at 181.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

We were higher up it 7 games ago. We were doing really well earlier on the season

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

17 games remaining and I hope Zucker gets 10 more goals for another 30 goal season. So far he has 6 goals in 11 games! it will be close. Also i'd like to see him get tried on the PK with his speed.

Sid needs 6 for 20, Horny needs 5 for 20, McCann needs 6 for 20, Geno needs 9 for 30, and Rust needs 3 for 30.

I'd say the realistic ones are Sid, Horny and Rust. Geno if he gets hot. McCann scoring 6 goals seems like a long shot given how he's producing this last little while.

 

[SouthGeorge]

It may not feel like it, but the Penguins are currently 7th in GA at 181.

We also have two really goalies where a lot of teams barely have one.

Look at the Avs. 173 GA and +50. We are +30. Those 20 goals is the difference in running away with Metro and 3rd. I'd say we are on par with goalies, they might be slightly better healthy and we might be more balanced offense. So where's the difference? They don't have flashy defensemen. Just Ian Cole with 25 points and +25. Ryan Graves is +44. I think you add up all our d's +/- and you wouldn't get 44.

 

[Peat]

Probably not the thread for it, but since people are discussing Schultz...what if his slump continues, goes into free agency and no GM is willing to give him the big payout that he may want. If he still wants to play in the NHL and is willing to do it on a lesser contract, does JR bring him back, do the Pens even want him back? I would argue that if Schultz was on the 3rd pair, making 3rd pair money, it wouldn't be an issue for the Pens.

I would only do this if I thought he would gel with his likely 3rd pairing partner and as the history of JJ-Schultz is "burn your own house down to contain the contagion first", I'm really not happy with the idea.

That said, they did have a solid night by the numbers last night - even a little more solid than the 5 minutes of Dumo-Schultz. Who knows? Maybe they put it together at the last minute and I feel different.

But right now I'm happy to call a day on Schultz here. Give him every last chance to bounce back as a guy here for the rest of the season, at least in terms of a guy who drives play the right way here - he can still make a big final contribution - but he's been erratic and injury prone and I don't know what his future holds. I'd rather look forwards here.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I honestly feel Schultz is going to be in Europe or the KHL next season.

 

[RSPens]

I would only do this if I thought he would gel with his likely 3rd pairing partner and as the history of JJ-Schultz is "burn your own house down to contain the contagion first", I'm really not happy with the idea.

That said, they did have a solid night by the numbers last night - even a little more solid than the 5 minutes of Dumo-Schultz. Who knows? Maybe they put it together at the last minute and I feel different.

But right now I'm happy to call a day on Schultz here. Give him every last chance to bounce back as a guy here for the rest of the season, at least in terms of a guy who drives play the right way here - he can still make a big final contribution - but he's been erratic and injury prone and I don't know what his future holds. I'd rather look forwards here.

I don't disagree with you at all. However if it was a question of Ruh on the 3rd pairing or Schultz (making slightly more) on the 3rd pairing, I think I prefer Schultz. But I do agree that it depends on who his partner is. I'd actually like to see a game or two of Riikola - Schultz, just to see if they can mesh alright. However we know that with JJ and Sully here, we will never see it.

 

[The Old Master]

I don't like relying on the defense constantly pinching to keep pucks in. I'm not saying a defensemen can never pinch. My way with the F3 high, he can cover if need be. But constantly pinching is high risk

it's only high risk when your forwards are in la la land. if they cover for you it's not "high" risk.

 

[Peat]

I don't disagree with you at all. However if it was a question of Ruh on the 3rd pairing or Schultz (making slightly more) on the 3rd pairing, I think I prefer Schultz. But I do agree that it depends on who his partner is. I'd actually like to see a game or two of Riikola - Schultz, just to see if they can mesh alright. However we know that with JJ and Sully here, we will never see it.

That one's not even about JJ, that one is about Sully straight up preferring to roll around a cyrotherapy chamber floor in his birthday suit to having them on the ice together at the same time.

I honestly feel Schultz is going to be in Europe or the KHL next season.

I'd still put my money on him getting paid in the NHL. There's never enough good NHL dmen for all the slots and I'm not sure one rough half-season changes too much when we everyone seemed fairly confident around Christmas that someone would be paying him far too much money. Maybe a one year "prove it" deal if the market has really deflated that much.