Speculation: Coaching Thread (poll included)

Who should be the next coach?


  • Total voters
    164

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,448
IF you keep Sullivan, a follow-up question should be who do you pick for GM, because a big problem has been GMJR acquiring players that are wasted on Sullivan's roster.
I wish we kept Billy G. I still think people capped on him for nothing. I think he'll be the more successful GM that got his first start in management with the Pens.

But ideally, I wouldn't be shocked (if this happened) if JR gets fired and they bring back Botterill to be the GM. He was being groomed for a long time.

OR they bring back Botterill and slowly phase out JR to an advisory/senior whatever the f***, role.
 

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
48,188
32,267
Praha, CZ
It's really hard to tell what people do on this team with all the bullshit that surrounds the front office, so I get why people were hard on Guerin.

Botterill? I have no idea if he'll be successful, but my gut reaction would be "no".
 
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audioslaved

Registered User
Jun 3, 2007
95
38
Laviolette is the choice that makes the most sense. Him and Rutherford has a history and that's something that seems important to Rutherford.

As long as Recchi is gone and the power play is fixed, I'm a happy camper. I still believe we need another talented right handed shot for the power play, Kessel left a void at the right side.
 

DesertedPenguin

Registered User
Mar 11, 2007
7,037
7,843
Keep in mind it's a super short off-season for coaching changes and new GMs.

Any change is going to be more disruptive than usual.

Plus, none of those coaches listed is more successful than Sullivan.

A month ago, everyone was talking about how he got snubbed as a Jack Adams Award nominee. Now he's getting fired for a bad week?

He deserves the opportunity to right the ship. I would expect changes to his staff, but I keep Sullivan.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,643
25,460
System wise?
What I can't figure out is why we gave the Montreal (and the Islanders) forwards so much time to come over the blue line and setup. We have no confidence in closing the gap.

If your forwards are the wrong side of the puck by a decent distance, gapping up aggressively risks a dman getting beat and creating an odd man situation (or even worse one). The number one priority here isn't preventing a shot, it's preventing a high danger one. Taking away the middle of the ice and waiting for them to make a play/for the cavalry to come is the smarter play there. With a bit of luck, they'll go wide in a poorly executed way and you can pivot and rub them out against the boards. They play it well, they get a shot from a bad angle or a hopeful pass that won't succeed if the stick is in the right position.

And tbh, that method is something this team has done pretty well season. It was even doing it well in the first two games against Montreal.

Roster flaws?
What flaws are you referring to? (not being insulting, honestly asking).

The bottom pairing options were unenticing - Riikola-Ruhwedel as a playoff pairing shouldn't tbe obvious options - and the bottom six was devoid of skill and creativity without seriously weakening the top 6, which tbf was somewhat due to bad luck and injury. Rutherford's done a fine job of repairing the roster after his 18 months of disaster post 2017, but there's still some work to be done. Not to absolve Sully of blame entirely of course, but if this was a cooking competition, someone definitely snuck some bad ingredients into his basket.

Just wanted to say: I wasn't lurking this board when Bylsma was canned, but I remember a lot of the dialogue was "he's such a good coach but this is a bad fit, he'll go somewhere else and do well; gonna be an NHL HC for a long time..."

You know what? Bylsma wasn't all that good and he wasn't a long-tenured NHL coach after being canned here.

Sully was great for us in 2016, helped in 2017 (luck and goaltending helped more but I digress) but hasn't been all that good since. The Penguins haven't been enjoyable to watch since...oh, about May 2017. I guess they were from October through New Year's this year but they had completely fallen apart by the time Forrest Gump came down with the 'Rona. There was a non-zero chance that they were going to crater bad enough to miss the playoffs entirely.

Also, if Sid's not going to tolerate an attempt at a 2-3 year retool that includes trading Geno and/or Tanger, we have to do something drastic and soon. Process of elimination says that's Sully.

Sully has a far bigger track record of success as a coach than Bylsma. More as an assistant coach, more as an AHL coach, and more as an NHL coach. I guess you never know when a dude's going to flame out and be suddenly done, but there's not a lot of reason to think that's Sully. Maybe if I'd been around then I'd have seen a bunch of people with nothing to do with the Penguins organisation talking about Bylsma is the best coach in the NHL, but I don't recall people here talking about being a thing (and people are very happy to bring up 20/20 hindsight).

He is also the perfect fit here except for these weird downswings in confidence and intensity that come from time to time. The first question to any prospective Head Coach is "we are aware the offensive firepower of our stars is our big strength but also that we can't rely on that alone over a playoff, we need real structure - but one that allows our stars to take chances. What's your solution?" The likelihood of said coaches suggesting something pretty like Sully's system is high.

And I think you're underplaying what he's done - 2017 was meant to be impossible to begin with according to many here, and these last few seasons have been constant chaos, and we had a less than 1% chance of missing the playoffs. He's done some dumb things but every coach does.

Sully's not a spoofer. Maybe he's lost the knack to motivating the room at the right time but if he hasn't he's still the best coach available.

That's right, try and think of the last time we had a coach that liked young players.

We've got one. We just played some post-season hockey with a rookie and sophomore as the second pairing. He's had rookies on the top line for both cup wins. When we have good young players, he nearly always plays them, and is usually quick to give them responsibilities.
 

Zirakzigil

Global Moderator
Jul 5, 2010
29,660
24,218
Canada
Snort lines of that dark roast and catch up, you wanker.
200.gif
 
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Pittsburgh1776

Registered User
Aug 9, 2010
5,274
4,638
The post from Peat makes sense if you ignore the last three years. This isn't 2018. His decisions last year and this year have been ridiculous, and seem based on favorites rather than performance. Your coach has to put the team in the best position to succeed, when they stop doing that for multiple seasons it's time for a new one.
 

Pens1566

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
18,439
7,292
WV
The post from Peat makes sense if you ignore the last three years. This isn't 2018. His decisions last year and this year have been ridiculous, and seem based on favorites rather than performance. Your coach has to put the team in the best position to succeed, when they stop doing that for multiple seasons it's time for a new one.

Agree. We've each of the last years, and it's largely because (I think) Sully insists the '16 magic can be continued forever, even while we adjust personnel away from what made it work in the first place, and the rest of the league has caught up or figured it out. If you let go of Bonino/Cole, etc, and trade away Hagelin/Kessel, all while not trying to at least replicate what they added to the formula, it's going to take an adjustment or two on the coaches part to make the new mix work. And I think we can all agree that Sully ain't the "adjusting" kind. He's definitely in the stubborn camp.
 

K Fleur

Sacrifice
Mar 28, 2014
15,472
25,752
Babcock would be a disaster. Dude is just Bylsma but withe Canadian hype machine behind him his whole career.

That’s probably not even fair to Bylsma since he’s coached an NHL team to a playoff series win more recently than Babcock

I like Laviolette the most on that list.
 

Big Friggin Dummy

Registered User
Feb 22, 2019
24,608
23,247
I agree with your "adjustment" part. He should have benched JJ a long time ago. Also Zucker with Sid and Guentzel with Malkin. Jarry vs Murray, I'm not convinced. I'm seeing all sorts of bad goals in other game, and Murray was pretty solid.

System wise?
What I can't figure out is why we gave the Montreal (and the Islanders) forwards so much time to come over the blue line and setup. We have no confidence in closing the gap.

Also we take forever to breakout of our zone. In our cup years, we literally just chipped it as fast as we could in the neutral zone then kicked/sticked/chipped our way into the offensive zone as fast as possible. Now it's all about controlled breakouts. By the time we get there, we're playing 3 on 5.

Roster flaws?
What flaws are you referring to? (not being insulting, honestly asking).

I think it's very difficult to keep a winning team in the cap era, not to mention an expansion draft.
Kessel becoming Zucker is a win.
Brassard becoming McCann and Bjugstad is a win. Even if those two don't fit us, they are young assets with value.
Marino was a steal!
Not to mention Pettersson.

Next year we should seriously look dump Schultz, JJ, and seriously look at PO Joseph. BTW I have no clue if he is ready yet.

Forwards, we actually have a lot to work with IMO.
We have zero semblance of a 3rd line. That's not as important as a 1st line or a top pairing on defense or anything, but we haven't won a thing since Bonino walked and we lost the depth/matchup advantage that having a good 3rd line brings. Our bottom pairing on defense is, genuinely, the worst pairing in the NHL with the ghost of Justin Schultz and an ECHL-caliber player in Jack Johnson. Our 4th line, for as much as people laud their defensive ability, is all but guaranteed to do nothing in the way of offensive pressure or production.

Agree on Kessel/Zucker. Took extra steps to get there, but I'm entirely happy with Zucker.
Brassard and Sheahan for McCann and Bjugstad was a win, until the latter two became healthy scratch material, just like the former two.
Marino is a steal, and thank god for that, because without Marino this blueline would be absolutely dreadful. :laugh:
Petts is solid and I think he's got a long future, but he's no game changer.

Jake-Sid-???
Zucker-Geno-Rust
???-???-???
ZAR/Lafferty-TB-Tanev

Dumo-Letang
???-Marino
Petts-Riikola/POJ

Jarry
???/DeSmith

Not a horrendous foundation, but there's a whole lot of work that needs to be done there.
 

Rakell67

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
3,137
2,080
PA
Remember when Phil Kessel was the reason for the team's entire poor postseason performance for the last few years? I also remember how Phil was the reason for malkin being a ghost

Pepperidge Farm remembers..
Remember when Kessel was a 20 goal scorer? Because he can’t do that anymore.
 

EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
Nov 23, 2016
12,697
12,034
Remember when Phil Kessel was the reason for the team's entire poor postseason performance for the last few years? I also remember how Phil was the reason for malkin being a ghost

Pepperidge Farm remembers..

I mean....just because the result didnt improve doesnt mean he wasnt a problem?
 

PenguinSuitedUp

Registered User
Oct 2, 2019
698
921
Saying this isn’t a reactionary thread doesn’t make it true. We just watched a team come out of a several month break to play a handful of games- after one exhibition game- in an unorthodox series in which they had only a marginal statistical advantage.

I understand Sullivan isn’t perfect and this team has its flaws that have extended beyond these past 5 games, but Sullivan had this team playing really well for way longer than that this season. The guy won back to back Cups not long ago. And he’s been handcuffed by some roster decisions that have not helped our defense. I’d be interested to know whether it’s even Sullivan’s choice to play Johnson every game.
 

Big Friggin Dummy

Registered User
Feb 22, 2019
24,608
23,247
This is probably a bit reactionary, but Sully's been making stupid choices more and more often in recent years. That, coupled with the Jack Johnson situation, is enough for me to be open to a new voice/eyes behind the bench. I don't even dislike Sully as a coach, and I think he'll be excellent wherever he lands, but the time for a change is here.

And that goes beyond Sully. This roster needs serious changes. The front office needs sweeping changes. A lot of this team needs to be revamped.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,643
25,460
I mean....just because the result didnt improve doesnt mean he wasnt a problem?

Geno had a fantastic regular season, which is a more reliable sample for measurement (even if the less important one), and being snakebit in the playoffs is an issue independent of the guys around him. We spent most of the season thinking moving Kessel was great for Geno, and I think it's far too kneejerk to change our minds on that.
 
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Jaded-Fan

Registered User
Mar 18, 2004
52,677
14,544
Pittsburgh
Their next coach is going to be Mike Sullivan, because no matter how much this board wants him fired, he's not going to be fired.

Not all on this board.

Retain Sully is now the second most popular choice. And was only added after the poll was already up for hours.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
81,877
80,072
Redmond, WA
Not all on this board.

Retain Sully is now the second most popular choice. And was only added after the poll was already up for hours.

82% of this board has voted for someone not named Sullivan though. It is possible that the number is lower because the choice was added later, but there are more people who want him gone than want him sticking around.
 
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