Speculation: Coaching Search - Part III: Dan Bylsma deal "imminent"

[CatsforReinhart]

Bylsma has a cup win under his belt, a Jack Adams and several big regular seasons. He has coached Art Ross and Hart Winners (never had a art Ross winner here)

How Is he not being more coveted ? Not many coaches with this pedigree. He's never missed the playoffs. I'm all aboard and pumped if he is indeed our next coach.

I agree Blysma is the best coach available to try to take this team to the next level. Unless you are someone who thinks Blysma ruined Bennett I am not someone who thinks Blysma is going to ruin Reinhart or Eichel.

He has two years to get this team to be competitive and if he fails I am sure there will be better coaches available then now. The last thing they need is a rookie coach going in and making a mess out of this and setting the rebuild back.

Blysma is a very safe hire in my opinion and won't set the rebuild back.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Anyone know what was Malkin and Crosby's ice time under Blysma compared to Therrien and Johnston?

One thing I would like to see is the best players assuming that it is Eichel and Reinhart getting used the most and in all situations. I am not someone who thinks having to roll three or four lines is the way to go. I want the best players out there when it matters. I hated that about Nolan.

 

[sjci]

 

[joshjull]

Yeah, you're right. Brain fart.

Generally speaking I don't think it changes much of the point I was making, but yes, I had that wrong.

No it doesn't change your overall point.

Bylsma was an assistant under Therrien, so of course he was going to use much of the same systems and strategy. He wasn't going to reinvent the wheel. However, Bylsma managed to get the same players in the same system to perform where Therrien wasn't, and it worked. **

**(Unless you think the only change the team needed was the voice at the top.)

That team won. They didn't do it on autopilot. Bylsma was a part of that. He didn't just stand on the bench with Therrien's whiteboard hoping something good would happen.

That isn't true either.

Therrien was missing his #1 all situations 25min a night dman (Gonchar) for all but his last game that year. He also never had first line wingers Kunitz and Guerin. They came on board after Bylsma took over. By any reasonable measure adding Gonchar, Guerin and Kunitz is a pretty big upgrade.

 

[Mike McDermott]

If we have to give the Penguins something for a guy they fired that is BS.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

If we have to give the Penguins something for a guy they fired that is BS.

If we could get compensation for Ted Nolan then why not?

 

[Paxon]

Bylsma has a cup win under his belt, a Jack Adams and several big regular seasons. He has coached Art Ross and Hart Winners (never had a art Ross winner here)

How Is he not being more coveted ? Not many coaches with this pedigree. He's never missed the playoffs. I'm all aboard and pumped if he is indeed our next coach.

Well a few counterpoints to this would be:
- Coaching an Art Ross winner just means he coached Sidney Crosby. I don't see how that translates as part of his resume.
- His team won the Cup after he took over mid-season. After he settled in they never had much playoff success, especially vs. regular season success/what you'd expect from a team with Crosby and Malkin (and Staal) down the middle.

The positives are:
- His teams did well even when dealing with some serious injuries to its best players
- He did win a Cup
- People around the league seem to think more highly of him
- At least from his own words, he's really worked on growing as a coach this past year, studying analytics and team strategies

So, if he can be more open to making adjustments, gives the young guys a fair shake, and doesn't put Matt Ellis on Eichel's wing, then he's definitely deserving of a fair shake from us. Definitely not the guy I wanted but so be it.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

That article makes a big deal about how Pitt played without ONE of Crosby/Malkin, but how many teams don't have even ONE player like Crosby/Malkin (oh, probably 24)? I'd rather see how Pitt played under Bylsma when both players were out. I know that's also unfair to judge Bylsma under those conditions, but those numbers would be more helpful than when "only" one superstar was in the line-up.

 

[OhreallyOrielly]

If we have to give the Penguins something for a guy they fired that is BS.

Meh, they knew it going in. Poppa bear is probably trying to turn the mandatory 3rd into, the 3rd out later 1st for a couple of prospects. I bet Murray never once at his own lunch in grade school.

 

[McCauleyChirps]

If we could get compensation for Ted Nolan then why not?

Byslma for Nolan.

Book it.

 

[Jim Carr's Rug]

Oh yaayyy, another "agreement in place."




No hatching, no chickens.

 

[Paxon]

Anyone know what was Malkin and Crosby's ice time under Blysma compared to Therrien and Johnston?

One thing I would like to see is the best players assuming that it is Eichel and Reinhart getting used the most and in all situations. I am not someone who thinks having to roll three or four lines is the way to go. I want the best players out there when it matters. I hated that about Nolan.

Just anecdotally from having watched them a lot, both got a lot of ice time, even when Jordan Staal was there giving them a really strong third line center. At certain points of some games he would throw Crosby and Malkin out together. Of course both got a lot of powerplay time as well. There's no issue with how he used those guys, though some examples like not putting Iginla on Crosby's wing instead of Dupuis I would say was misuse in a sense.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

The argument I don't get is...

Imagine a coach taking over a .500 hockey team and winning the cup.
Ya but it wasn't his system.

Or

He has Sydney Crosby
but yet Crosby has been in the NHL 10 years and has 1 cup

I don't think either of those are good arguments, IMO.

 

[TehDoak]

Its not official till BNHarrington calls it a "Classless move"

 

[TehDoak]

The whole Crosby/Malkin 1 cup thing is overblown.

bruce boudreau had ovechkin/backstrom for several years and never got past the 2nd round.

Winning a cup does mean something, no matter how good the lineup is.

 

[Jame]

Well a few counterpoints to this would be:
- Coaching an Art Ross winner just means he coached Sidney Crosby. I don't see how that translates as part of his resume.
- His team won the Cup after he took over mid-season. After he settled in they never had much playoff success, especially vs. regular season success/what you'd expect from a team with Crosby and Malkin (and Staal) down the middle.

The positives are:
- His teams did well even when dealing with some serious injuries to its best players
- He did win a Cup
- People around the league seem to think more highly of him
- At least from his own words, he's really worked on growing as a coach this past year, studying analytics and team strategies

So, if he can be more open to making adjustments, gives the young guys a fair shake, and doesn't put Matt Ellis on Eichel's wing, then he's definitely deserving of a fair shake from us. Definitely not the guy I wanted but so be it.

as soon as the hire is announced... the bolded is all that matters to me.

i dont care about cup/adams
i don't care about his previously failed scheme
i don't care about the void over developing players on his resume

it's all in the past... the negatives cease to matter

but the only positive i had to latch on to, is the bolded

 

[Zip15]

That's not how contracts work. He's still under contract, and still their employee. Pittsburgh could just ice him and pay him if they wanted to.

But he has no responsibility or title. He does nothing but he's still on their books. Pittsburgh's compensation should be not having to pay him anymore since they fired him.

It's simply bad policy. The rule, as presently interpreted, creates an obstacle to re-hire. While some teams will bite the bullet, others may not and a guy could miss out on an opportunity simply because his old team "relieved him of his duties" rather than firing him--then what happens if an opportunity never comes that guy's way again?

This rule will be amended within the year to account for this very situation. That's a guarantee. But with the amount of lawyers in the league and team offices, it's surprising they couldn't envision such an obvious loophole.

Jim Rutherford: Bending Buffalo over since 2006.

Yeah, it hasn't been lost on me that Rutherford is a part of this. That organization allowed their former GM to go to a division rival without compensation, and is now demanding a pick from the Sabres for their fired coach? Garbage.

 

[Jim Bob]

That didn't take long.

 

[SackTastic]

Therrien was missing his #1 all situations 25min a night dman (Gonchar) for all but his last game that year. He also never had first line wingers Kunitz and Guerin. They came on board after Bylsma took over. By any reasonable measure adding Gonchar, Guerin and Kunitz is a pretty big upgrade.

Not incorrect, and those 3 did make significant playoff contributions. But 2 out of the starting 12 forwards alone did not turn that team around to even make the playoffs.

 

[SackTastic]

Its not official till BNHarrington calls it a "Classless move"

/thread

 

[Jim Bob]

http://www.pensburgh.com/2015/5/5/8548495/penguins-former-gm-ray-shero-goes-to-new-jersey

I love how the Pens didn't want compensation for Shero, but they appear to want compensation for Bylsma...

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Why can't teams just give out 20 year contracts to HCs - 3 or 4 years at legit salary and the next 16 at 25k? Then the team is throwing pennies at the coach for however long after he's fired, but can then demand compensation for basically the remainder of his coaching days.

 

[Myllz]

http://www.pensburgh.com/2015/5/5/8548495/penguins-former-gm-ray-shero-goes-to-new-jersey

I love how the Pens didn't want compensation for Shero, but they appear to want compensation for Bylsma...

They're probably only doing it now because people called them out for not doing it for Shero.

 

[vcv]

Why can't teams just give out 20 year contracts to HCs - 3 or 4 years at legit salary and the next 16 at 25k? Then the team is throwing pennies at the coach for however long after he's fired, but can then demand compensation for basically the remainder of his coaching days.

No coach would agree to that, for many many reasons.

 

[Jim Bob]

I'm curious what the competition was like in the games w/o the studs?
What's Bylsma's record in the regular season vs good/bad teams?

Kind of like how Hitchcock teams dominate weaker competition in the regular season, but in the same season they'll have sub 500 records vs playoff teams. Then they get to the playoffs and consistently get beat...

(im only aware of the record from recent conversation)

Anyone have a link to similar stats?

http://www.tsn.ca/bylsma-can-stand-on-his-track-record-1.293813

So, to be clear: In more than two regular seasons worth of games played under Dan Bylsma and without one or both of Sidney Crosby/Evgeni Malkin, the Pittsburgh Penguins were objectively a top-ten hockey team at even-strength.
This is precisely why I have such a hard time accepting the notion that Bylsma was the one dragging Pittsburgh into the muck. The raw win/loss record says enough about his success, and no longer can anyone hang their hat on the ‘Crosby and Malkin carried Bylsma’ teams argument, because the data just doesn’t support it.
If I’m Tim Murray, I lock up Dan Bylsma’s contract…as soon as I finish reading this sentence.

Not exactly what you were looking for, but Yost has some analytics for all games with Pitts vs games where one or both of 87 & 71 were out.